The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

One of my all time favourites.

Novels:
Frost (Frost 1963), translated by Michael Hofmann (2006)
Gargoyles (Verstörung, 1967), translated by Richard and Clara Winston (1970)
The Lime Works (Das Kalkwerk, 1970), translated by Sophie Wilkins (1973)
Correction (Korrektur, 1975), translated by Sophie Wilkins (1979)
Yes (Ja, 1978), translated by Ewald Osers (1991)
The Cheap Eaters (Die Billigesser, 1980), translated by Ewald Osers (1990) and by Douglas Robertson (2021)
Concrete (Beton, 1982), translated by David McLintock (1984)
Wittgenstein's Nephew (Wittgensteins Neffe, 1982), translated by David McLintock (1988)
The Loser (Der Untergeher, 1983), translated by Jack Dawson (1991)
Woodcutters (Holzfällen: Eine Erregung, 1984), translated by Ewald Osers (1985) and as Woodcutters, by David McLintock (1988)
Old Masters: A Comedy (Alte Meister. Komödie, 1985), translated by Ewald Osers (1989)
Extinction (Auslöschung, 1986), translated by David McLintock (1995)
On The Mountain (In der Höhe, written 1959, published 1989), translated by Russell Stockman (1991)

Novellas:
Three Novellas consisting of:
Amras (1964) translated as Amras by Peter Jansen
Watten. Ein Nachlaß (1964) translated as Playing Watten by Kenneth Northcott
Gehen (1971), translated as Walking by Kenneth Northcott

Source: Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_...) which also has the plays, poems, autobiography and other misc pieces.

One of the bizarre things with Bernhard's work in English is the bewildering variety of translators.

Of books I've read these include....

Laura Lindgren (Thomas Bernhard: 3 days)
James Reidel (Goethe Dies)
Martin Chalmers (Prose, also Victor Halfwit)
Peter Jansen (Three Novellas - Amras)
Kenneth Northcott (Voice Imitators & Three Novellas - Playing Watten & Walking)
Michael Hoffman (Frost)
Richard and Clara Winston (Gargoyle)
Sophie Wilkins (Lime Works & Correction),
Ewald Osers (Yes, Cheap Eaters & Old Masters, also an earlier translation of Woodcutters)
David McLintock (Concrete, Wittgenstein's Nephew, Extinction & Woodcutters)
Jack Dawson (Loser)
Carol Brown Janeway (My Prizes)
Meredith Oakes and Andrea Tierney (Heldenplatz, also Elizabeth II)
Russell Stockman (On the Mountain)
Douglas Robertson (a new translation of The Cheap Eaters, and unauthorised pieces including The Italian).

And in addition I'm aware of translations of various stories, plays and poems by:
Gita Honneger (author also of a biography of Bernhard)
Michael Mitchell
David Horrocks
Neville & Stephen Plaice
Peter Eyre & Tom Cairns
Jan-Willem van den Bosch
Josef Glowa, Donald McManus & Susan Hurly-Glowa
Damion Searls
Peter Waugh

It is testament to the power and distinctiveness of Bernhard's narrative voice that it shines through consistently in the English.

Thankfully, I don't have that problem ;)

I've only read three so far, 'Der Untergeher', 'Holzfällen' and 'Alte Meister' - of those, perhaps only the first was a little weak, the other two were excellent (although you might not be able to tell from my review of 'Alte Meister'!

Paul - what would be your recommendation from the rest of his novels?

Difficult as compared to some of the other threads we have here, I tend to find his books of reasonably even quality - in Goodreads terms they mostly all get 4 stars from me but don't think I've ever rated one 5 stars. And actually 'Der Untergeher' is one of my favourites.

If forced I'd go with Beton (Concrete).

Actually he is one of the those rare authors I enjoy reading in all formats so I'd most recommend his autobiography of sorts Gathering Evidence, although I have a feeling in the original German this may not have been one coherent volume.

You've listed another author whose work I've been collecting due to reputation but whom I still haven't read! I just got Goethe Dies , just out from Seagull, and I was planning to start that soon. I'd like to learn a bit more about his work since I also have Horacio Castellanos Moya's Revulsion: Thomas Bernhard in San Salvador .

I just read my first Bernhard (Wittgenstein's Nephew), and it was pretty fantastic.

I agree that certain features of his style make it through the translation process very well (due to the book availability landscape, I ended up reading him in French, but I think this probably just confirms that his voice is fairly distinctive).

The recently published Goethe Dies is an excellent introduction to Bernhard's work.

There are also a number of short stories at this blog in unofficial translations http://shirtysleeves.blogspot.co.uk/s...

I have just been reading my first Bernhard, Old Masters, and found it interesting and quite funny at times, if relentlessly nihilistic. The lack of paragraph breaks and quotation marks makes it a tougher read than it would be otherwise, given that most of the content is reported speech. If Bernhard was that disillusioned back in the 80s I dread to think what he would have made of the political climate we have now!

Paul wrote: "The recently published Goethe Dies is an excellent introduction to Bernhard's work.

There are also a number of short stories at this blog in unofficial translations http://shirtysl..."

Of the ones I read, Goethe Dies stands out as hilariously funny. I would like to read more like this by Thomas, but after Holzfällen, I am reluctant to try another one in which the narrator shouts at the world for 200 pages... Can you recommend some which are a bit more humorous and in which the narrator (=Thomas Bernhard) does not take himself quite so seriously? I heard Alte Meister is supposed to be funny?

Beton (Concrete) is of course officially better even than 100 Years of Solitude.

But if it is comedy you are after then Meine Preise (My Prizes) since the joke is partly on Bernhard himself (and he knows it) as he claims to be indifferent to prizes, then sulks when he doesn't win them or receive proper recognition at the ceremony, is surprised when the dignitaries chosen to present the prizes are offended at his less than gracious acceptance speeches, and is mainly interested in how much money the prize comes with rather than any prestige or literary merit.

I have finally found time to read Correction (my review), which I have been intending to read since last year's Mookse Madness. Another singular and uncompromising vision, and I suspect a greater knowledge of Wittgenstein would have revealed more layers.

I studied philosophy in college and Wittgenstein is tough. I recall that the professor sometimes felt he didn't really understand Wittgenstein. This sounds like a great book.

It is definitely a great book!

WndyJW wrote: "I studied philosophy in college and Wittgenstein is tough. I recall that the professor sometimes felt he didn't really understand Wittgenstein. This sounds like a great book."

I read Extinction and I didn't really like it but back in my early 20's I shunned all experimental writing, claiming it to be pretentious so I will re-read it.

As an aside:

re Wittgenstein - In Malta, due to my uncle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_S...) being a Wittgenstein scholar, all philosophy majors (as I was one) had to study the blue and brown books. All I can say is that after a while you get used to Wittgenstein's theories and they become interesting.

I posted my review for Woodcutters, here's the link.

I'll soon tackle the rest of his autobiography, which hasn't been discussed here yet. I read Der Keller: Eine Entziehung, still left are Ein Kind, Der Atem. Eine Entscheidung, Die Kälte: Eine Isolation, and Die Ursache: Eine Andeutung.

While the English-speaking world mostly looks at his novels, Bernhard was also an accomplished playwright. The name-giving play of Claus Peymann kauft sich eine Hose und geht mit mir essen: Drei Dramolette was even re-written as a homage to Bernhard by Benjamin von Stuckrad-Barre and staged as a part of Harald Schmidt's legendary late night show (he's the German Letterman) - still available on YouTube!

Meike wrote: "I'll soon tackle the rest of his autobiography, which hasn't been discussed here yet. I read Der Keller: Eine Entziehung.

I keep meaning to update the bibliography to include these, the poems and plays - but it is tricky to map to the English version. Doesn't help that the definitive biography in English bizarrely omits to include a list of works.

In English there is just one - brilliant - volume Gathering Evidence. I think this includes all the parts - although it is only 350 pages long: does that sound right lengthwise?

Paul wrote: "I keep meaning to update the bibliography to include these, the poems and plays - but it is tricky to map to the English version."

Paul, I did not intend to criticize the first post of this thread at all - it says "novels", so it is absolutely accurate, and I feel like in the English-speaking world, Bernhard is first and foremost perceived as a novelist!

The description of Gathering Evidence certainly says that it includes all parts of the autobiography, and the German version of a book always needs more pages than the English version, but 350 pages sounds really short to me, so I am not sure whether this is unabridged (Der Keller: Eine Entziehung alone has 144 pages, the whole Die Autobiographie in German has 575 pages). I can't say for sure though, it's also a question of layout and such...

There really should be better bibliographies and more info re translations for such important authors!

Re Thomas Bernhard's relevancy today: I just read the new book by Benjamin von Stuckrad-Barre, Ich glaub, mir geht's nicht so gut, ich muss mich mal irgendwo hinlegen, and it features a fictional conference at a newspaper where editors discuss with what kind of article they should honor Bernhard's birthday - this episode is brilliant, it reflects how Bernhard is perceived today and satirizes how he is marketed and how the arts sections of newspapers function (Stuckrad-Barre used to be a journalist himself). Great, great stuff!

Looking at the 4 of the books I have read in the last few weeks:

Census by Jesse Ball
Panthers and the Museum of Fire by Jen Craig
Öræfi by Ófeigur Sigurðsson
Doppelgänger by Daša Drndić

all very different books and very different authors, and from the US, Australia, Iceland and Croatia.

And what - apart from their high quality - do they have in common? All 4 are heavily, often explicitly, influenced by Thomas Bernhard.

I'm sure there is a strong element of me being attracted to a certain type of book, but among books I've read and loved in recent years, Thomas Bernhard is much the most cited influence.

I finally borrowed my first Bernhard from the library, but won’t be reading it very soon since I assume he’s a rather nihilistic writer and right now life and work are nihilistic enough (haha). But I’m looking forward to reading the Three Novellas in the future. I’m not sure if it is the best introduction to the author at all, but I like the idea of tackling older works first.

It probably isn't to be honest - Bernhard himself was fond of Amras but I rated it 2 stars, and Watten still feels work in progress. Gehen though is getting close to peak Bernhard.

Update from earlier posts:

Looking back on 2019 (and late 2018) - this really was the year to me that demonstrated Thomas Bernhard's pivotal role in world literature. A list of books I read where the author acknowledges Thomas Bernhard as a, often the, key influence, now includes:

A Cure for Suicide by Jesse Ball [and the rest of his oeuvre but this is the most explicitly Bernhardian]
Panthers and the Museum of Fire by Jen Craig
The Olcinium Trilogy by Andrej Nikolaidis, translated by Will Firth
Reinhardt's Garden by Mark Haber
Öræfi by Ófeigur Sigurðsson, translated by Lytton Smith
Baron Wenckheim's Homecoming by Laszlo Krasznahorkai translated by Ottilie Mulzet
Doppelgänger by Daša Drndić, translated by SD Curtis and Celia Hawkesworth
The Females by Wolfgang Hilbig translated by Isabel Fargo Cole
Mothlight by Adam Scovell
CoDex 1962 by Sjón, translated by Victoria Cribb
Moo Pak by Gabriel Josipovici
The Nocilla Trilogy: Nocilla Dream, Nocilla Experience, Nocilla Lab by Agustín Fernández Mallo, translated by Thomas Bunstead
Brother in Ice by Alicia Kopf, translated by Mara Faye Lethem

All completely different books from each other and the master's work, yet all possible through what he did for literature and most 5 or 4.5 star reads.

Would also add the work of Horacio Castellanos Moya, though Trevor did mention him upthread - translated by GR friend Lee Klein.

Thanks for the reminder - I must get round to that (I've read Senselessness, but not Revulsion: Thomas Bernhard in San Salvador)

I'm sure there are many more authors/books to cite - those in the post are all just ones I've personally read in the last 15 months.

The Organs of Sense didn't get much voice past initial release and nearly none in the UK, but you'll find Bernhard influence here.

Tommi wrote: "I finally borrowed my first Bernhard from the library, but won’t be reading it very soon since I assume he’s a rather nihilistic writer and right now life and work are nihilistic enough (haha). But..."

Someone on Twitter recommended Wittgenstein's Nephew as a good introduction to Bernhard, in part because it’s a short book. What do you think of that as a first Bernhard, Paul?

I tried for 3 days to start Satantango, but I watched a few clips of the film and it is so dreary that I couldn’t do it. I’m not opposed to dark books, but I’m not in the mood when the weather is grey, my routine is off, and I’m still recovering from the holidays. I will read it soon though.

That was a wonderful Twitter exchange - Declan (one of my favourite reviewers), Vesna Main herself joined in and the recommendation came from a Doestevsky Wannabe author.

That is a good one: Bernhard actually was a very close friend of Wittgenstein’s nephew. Concrete, the other recommendation on that thread, is perhaps Bernhard at his peak Bernhardian.

I felt a bit out of my league, but I’ve found that if I admit my ignorance about something most people are eager to help and offer suggestions. I just looked at Bertie Marshall’s bio, he is indeed a DW author. Other than the books, my favorite thing about the world of independent presses is the warmth and friendliness of most author and publishers.

I was running an errand this morning in grey, cold, constantly drizzling weather and thought this is actually the perfect time to read Satantango. So long as I don’t become completely despondent and give up all hope of ever seeing the sun again.

Put the 7 hour movie version on as added background - actually if the weather is like that you don't need to as you could just gaze out of the window

The weather in Ohio is as dreary and depressing as the film depicts for a few months a year.

For the Bernhard completionists interested in his plays, I spent some time updating his bibliography on Wikipedia with information about translations into English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_...

Wow thanks - think I now count 30 different translators into the English for one writer!

I just ordered Concrete and Wittgenstein's Nephew.

I’m curious why you call Bernhard one of your favorites, but say that you give almost all his books 4 stars, Paul. What is missing in his work that would give him that one more star?

I read the books pre Goodreads when I gave one or two books a year 5 stars, and 4 stars meant excellent - on even my new GR scale a lot would be 5, and on a typical Goodreads avg where 4 is 'ok' they'd be 6.

Although I am not sure there is any one stand out book, which is one issue.

I think he is also a favourite as he is the most important an influential writer in the post war period - it's difficult to imagine modern literature without him (rather like Joyce pre war).

I have read that about Bernhard.
I need to add Lucia’s dad to my list of authors to catch up on. I have Ulysses. Not a light read, I know, but since I have no intention of reading Proust, I need something to boast about finishing.

I've now read seven novels and one play, with 'Concrete', 'Wittgenstein's Nephew', 'Walking', 'The Lime Works' and 'Heldenplatz' added to the three I started with (comment above). Of these, 'Concrete' is probably the one I enjoyed most, but I think 'The Old Masters' would still be my favourite overall. Tempted to try 'Extinction', but 600pp of Bernhard in German might not be the best thing for my mental health at the moment ;)

For Thomas Bernhard completists, exciting news that Douglas Robertson, who had previously worked on unofficial translations of stories on his website, has now published a new translation of the previously-hard/expensive-to-obtain Cheap Eaters - https://spurleditions.com/cheap-eaters

It’s always exciting when an out of print book is finally in print again!

And in a new translation so like a whole new book,

Although as often with US books in UK seems harder to get here than the out of print one!

Interview with the new translator on the Unsound Methods podcast (which is a wonderful podcast generally)

https://audioboom.com/posts/7774882-t...

Not sure when this is being translated

https://www.theguardian.com/books/202...

Berhnard was either a narcissist or a Gemini.

(I’m joking of course; some of my favorite people are Geminis.)

Bernhard's narrator in Extinction on his brother...

I once told Gambetti that my brother was always an affection seeker, but I never was.

During these twenty years my brother had envied me for having left Wolfsegg, for my megalomaniac self-sufficiency, as he once put it, and hated me for my relentless insistence on freedom.

My brother’s favorite words were grain, pigs, pines, and firs, while mine were Paris, London, Caucasus, Tolstoy, and Ibsen,

A rather stunning interview with author of the brilliant Panthers and the Museum of Fire. Jen Craig, including a very Bernhardian discussion of the greatest of Bernhard:

https://obstructivefictions.substack....

This is just the first quarter or so:

While it’s true that Bernhard’s sentences tend to the long and spiraling, and that a single sentence, with all of its numerous knottings, recursive loops and repetitive phrasings, can run the entire length of a book if it wants to (here I am thinking of Yes) — and, as such, do an excellent job of frustrating any readerly hope of hearing the whole thing straight — for me the defining aspect of the Bernhardian sentence, and particularly the Bernhardian monologue (as it is made up of one or many of these sorts of sentences), is the way that its drive to excess (in terms of its excessive knottings, its excessive length) is usually equally matched by a very strong drive to cut itself short. So many of his works start with a seemingly plainly worded and mostly straightforward sentence, and I list them here: Woodcutters, The Loser, Frost, Old Masters, Wittgenstein’s Nephew, Gargoyles, and the three novellas, Amras, Playing Watten and Walking, and even Concrete and Extinction. These are sentences that function as the barest, starkest account of a usually grim event or judgment and then shut themselves up, like the gruffly worded sentiments of those who’ve lived to rue the day — who no longer trust. And yet the voice continues. The sentences continue. And I would say that, in the jolt of silence that follows (for me) every one of these reluctant-seeming sentences, I will also feel the force of the resistance that will eventually press it into keeping on going, and eventually fuelling the rest of the book. And so: the afterlife of these Bernhardian sentences or monologues, or rather of the imagined maker of these sentences and monologues, since it is my fictional version of Bernhard-as-monologue-maker that I hear in these monologues: Bernhard as my imagined writer of that monologuing world. Because who is it but this imaginary Bernhard that turns out books that are nothing but vehicles (as some might put it) for the irascibly reluctant, opinionated voice of an ultimately dominating monologuist that will refuse to stop for anyone — not even for himself?

Answers that are “digressions within digressions” and a Thomas Bernhard obsession. The interview is reminding me of someone but I can’t think who. It will come to me.

She is a quite exceptional and highly talented if that helps jog your memory.

Another great article about Bernhard (it is testament to his brilliance that his novels produces such great critical responses)

https://oubliette-mag.medium.com/forc...

For the completists out there, five more stories translated by Douglas Robertson out later this year courtesy of Seagull Books: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/...

It collects:
"Ungenach" from 1968
"At the Timberline" from 1969
And the three stories from the 1971 collection Midland in Stilfs: "Midland in Stilfs", "The Weatherproof Cape" and "At the Ortler"

That is exciting.

He had translated some stories (not sure if includes these) unofficially on his website but good to see them in print.