Time Travel discussion

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/...

I actually thought it was a Polaroid camera.

Steven wrote: "I actually thought it was a Polaroid camera."

Saw this about a week ago and saw it was already debunked then. Yes it was a camera not a cell phone camera. I think people have identified it as a Casio camera from that time period.

This article explains it. Not sure if that is the exact model but it is close.
http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/05...

With more and more people using the internet and their "smart" phones and tablets, they are discovering old footage and using modern thinking about some unusually looking things. Not all fuzzy flying objects in the sky are space aliens.

Those are some spiffy looking cameras. Sadly, I think none of these "proof of time travel?" pictures and videos are proof of time travel, but it's fun to speculate anyway.

Amy wrote: "Those are some spiffy looking cameras. Sadly, I think none of these "proof of time travel?" pictures and videos are proof of time travel, but it's fun to speculate anyway."

I agree.

I love these. And I keep hoping we find more that can't be explained. Toy airplanes in Egyptian tombs, cell phone in Charlie Chaplin film, those are the two I love the most without any good explanation.

W. wrote: "I love these. And I keep hoping we find more that can't be explained. Toy airplanes in Egyptian tombs, cell phone in Charlie Chaplin film, those are the two I love the most without any good explana..."

As for the toy airplanes in Egyptian tombs, I like to think that perhaps there was a more advanced race that lived here at some point or just visited. Whether time travelers, aliens, or natives, it makes for good fiction speculation.

Perhaps! Maybe we were a lot smarter back then than our archeologists give credit. They may have had knowledge of flight but lacked the materials from which to make larger sized vehicles. Some of these are shrug worthy, but others make your eyebrows raise.

Ooparts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-...

W. wrote: "Perhaps! Maybe we were a lot smarter back then than our archeologists give credit. They may have had knowledge of flight but lacked the materials from which to make larger sized vehicles. Some of t..."

That link is a never ending rabbit hole designed to get one entirely away from whatever task was previously at hand. Aghhhh!

HAHAHA! I did that on purpose.
Pleased to meet you. Hope you guessed my name.

Didn't CERN demonstrate time travel when some subatomic particle showed up some place in their collider, like, a millisecond before (or after, I get confused) it was supposed to?

Also, did not USAF demonstrate time travel according to relativity with a chronometer on an SR-71 flying 'cross the continent, and another matched control chronometer on the ground, and, after the flight, a discrepancy between the two?

Confessions: I was liberal arts. What I don't know about science could fill the Library of Congress. And I'm too lazy to Google these. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it.

iPhone spotted in 350 year old painting ;)

http://fortune.com/2016/05/25/apple-i...

The SR-71 is more a demonstration of relativity (the faster you approach light, the slower time runs for you relative to those that are not moving) than actual time travel.

Need to look up the CERN thing though...

Thanks, B.L.

Neutrino, light speed, I can't recall. I read it, I think, years ago in the L.A. Times.

Relativity, time vs. speed: I'm no physicist; actually, far, far from it! I just *want* it to be true, know what I mean?

Tachyons travel faster than light, they can't slow down, therefore they violate causality, cause and effect.

Tachyons don't break the law that nothing can speed up to and beyond the speed of light; they already exist beyond the barrier.

A message sent by tachyons would arrive before it was sent.

...Just to supplement Ian's post, tachyon is just a theoretical particle!

My favourite book based on tachyon particle theory was Timescape by Gregory Bensford. It was a slow burner read but a wonderful depiction of scientists endeavour to pursue turning theoretical physics into reality not unlike the scientists at CERN but with an added narrative goal of sending life saving messages to the past.

I recall the Neutrino experiment. Most scientists were sceptical at the time and suspected a flaw in the measurment procedure which was exactly what happened as B.L pointed out.

I personally dont believe time travel is ever possible but like you, Landis, I sure as hell wish it was but without the caveat of universe collapsing as a result ;)

I had this poll up a few years ago asking if you think time travel will ever exist and the top vote was "NO but I sure wish it to be true!"


https://www.goodreads.com/poll/show/7...

Friday 19th August...

Message to myself...

Take the day off and avoid walking under any buildings with scaffolding.

Sent from my Tachyon iPad.

Tej wrote: "...Just to supplement Ian's post, tachyon is just a theoretical particle!..."

Tej, thank you, as always.

My view: I fear the "crowd phenomenon" (discussed elsewhere in these pages)-- millions would show up for the Crucifixion, thousands would show up for the Battle of Stalingrad...etc-- rules out time travel. The "crowd phenomenon", in all my decades of reading, never occurred to me until I read it here in these pages. Ingenious. For that, I'm grateful.

But there's a catch...I follow my fancy and consider the possibility of no crowd phenomenon because the incident is viewed from another dimension, like watching TV.

I'm incorrigible! Yes, I highly-doubt human time travel is possible...but, without all the paradoxes and messing-up history, I wish it were!

So...I want it both ways...don't know the scientific way to say that, but I think it means...I want...a paradox!

A way to avoid all paradoxes would be Novikov's self-consistency principle. One could think a time travel story free of paradoxes would be boring, but we have plenty of examples of novels that are paradox free and still are highly engaging. To name just a few, we have "The Time Traveler's Wife", "Time Travelers Never Die".

Fiction is full of solutions to the crucifixion problem.

There's the concept that you can't be accurate... The Time Tunnel scenario. "Two American scientists lost ..." Where Doug and Tony actually become part of history.

Or Poul Andersons Time Patrol that exists to keep the timeline stable.

Or Silverburgs, as mentioned, Up The Line where the moment is reset.

Then the recent BBC supernatural series "The Living and the Dead" where the future is yesterday and yesterday is tomorrow.

The least satisfactory is Michael Chrichtons "Timeline" where you actually cross over into an identical world that's out of sync with ours; which doesn't explain why they found the message in their world nor returned to their own time.

The best solution is that everyone but you is already a time traveller but concealing it... which explains why, when watching tv, my wife always spoils the end of Who Done Its by telling me who did!

Ian, thank you. I'll keep those titles in mind. Regarding "spoiler" as "time travel"...I can recall some 20 years ago, walking into the kitchen, and my eldest is saying to her mother: "..and then he realizes *he* has been dead the whole time, too!"

My inference and intuition--rarely-- proved correct, and I butted-in, saying something like, "Oh! Thank you for enhancing my upcoming visit to the theater to see 'Sixth Sense'!"

If it became a reality I expect the exit and entry into time would be instantaneous which as an illustrator I find disappointing. I've always wanted the improbable Time Tunnel effect.

When I had to illustrate a conversation during transit I did this...

http://artland.theavengers.tv/page803...

Which is totally unlikely but fun.

I actually thought the time travelers wife very dull and a bit creepy. The young girl bit. I gave up about half way as I was so bored.

I think you should give it another chance, Steven; the book keeps getting better and better throughout the end. But I agree the book's tone can be a bit heavy sometimes.

I just think time travel books that preserve causality are the nearer we can get from genuine time travel, if it could ever be achieved.

I felt uncomfortable at first reading the Time Travellers Wife, and felt it sluggish about half way through. Then it started to get deeper and the last page was quite moving and unforgettable.

I understand why the film was unable to follow the final paragraphs of the book and I think the visual interpretation is a good replacement but I was disappointed it wasn't as poignant.

Landis wrote: My view: I fear the "crowd phenomenon" (discussed elsewhere in these pages)-- millions would show up for the Crucifixion, thousands would show up for the Battle of Stalingrad...etc-- rules out time travel.

Depends on the economics of time travel. Perhaps it will always be too expensive for any but the super-rich.

Perhaps we should be looking for the odd guy in an Armani suit hanging about at the back of the crowd in old photographs...

Yes, Chris. And I chuckle favorably at your example, thanks! Mention has been made here of time-travel invented, but banned. Changing gears here, to movies: shades of "Looper" and "Predestination".

Apologies if these ideas have been thought of elsewhere, I haven't seen them.
I was thinking about an old book I read read many years ago The Spaceships of Ezekiel https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...
Perhaps some of you have read it.
In the book the author, a NASA rocket scientist espouses the theory that Ezekiel in the bible instead witnessing messengers from God actually witness a spaceship landing. The book is very good, very high on detail with illustrations I recommend it.
For my time travel theory we, like the author, make some assumptions:
Ezekiel or another person didn't just make the whole thing up,
Ezekiel wasn't mad, on drugs or otherwise hallucinating,
the phenomena that he did see was not Angels but a real machine.
So we are then left with Aliens visiting the Earth because no Human civilisation could possibly build such a machine at that time but there is another possibility that humans did build the machine. Humans from the future that is. I seen someone mentioned elsewhere that the Earth revolves around the Sun of course and in turn the Whole lot revolves around the Galactic centre and the Galaxy itself is moving.
If you invented a time machine to go back a week, with allowing for the Earth moving you would find yourself in space. So if you could invent a time machine that also moved in space that would be okay but is also the real danger that if you did reappear in the same location you could be inside a truck or whatever, a very dangerous and risky prospect. So to travel back in time the safest place to do this would be in space if you couldn't move in space or even in the atmosphere if the machine could move in space. Both are not risk free but much less risky than on the surface.
So instead of witnessing aliens Ezekiel could have witnessed time travellers landing back on the planet after travelling back in time.

Steven, thank you. The physics of the earth's orbit never occurred to me with regard to time travel. Yeah...staying in the exact same spot indeed would all too soon strand one in outer space! And, yes, there are dangers of travelling in time even if you could fix the exact geographic coordinates: arriving in a deep-fryer at McDonalds, or the "Games" in a long-forgotten Roman colonial Coliseum. Thanks again, Steven.

Re: The Spaceships of Ezekiel. That reminds me of a book from the early 1970s book by Erich von Daniken Chariots of the Gods? Unsolved Mysteries of the Past. I remember my family had a copy of it in our family "library", that is the collection of books that migrated onto the common bookshelves in our basement rec room, or laundry room/utility/storage room. I glanced through it but never formally read it. I didn't realize it at the time but it was my first introduction into the "Ancient Aliens" conspiracy theory which includes the idea that many of the events described in the Christian Bible and Jewish Scriptures involved extraterrestrial aliens.

It also reminds me of the late 1970s television show Project U.F.O. which was about the US Governments Project Blue Book investigations in the 1950s/60s into UFO sightings. As part of the opening credits there was a voice over monologue that included a line about Ezekiel "Ezekiel saw THE wheel, this is the Wheel he said he saw"