The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

The Folio Prize seems to have risen from the ashes:
http://literatureworks.org.uk/the-fol...

I attended these sessions the last two years but didn't expect there to be anything this year since they are not awarding the prize.

It's unclear whether The Folio Society is still behind this or not. Has anyone heard? I found a lot to like about this prize so I'm over the moon to see it hasn't been dropped completely. They write about it in this article as if there has not been an interruption.

Interesting - same website does seem to suggest prize may come back in 2017 but no news on the crucial aspect - a new sponsor.

Must admit I was less of a fan. Seemed an overreaction to one bad jury of the Booker. When the latter selected a more sensible jury the following year and also broadened the eligibility to non Commonwealth books, then the rationale for the Folio Prize seemed to disappear. Personally I also found the whole Academy thing a bit pretentious, and it is far from obvious to me that writers are necessarily the best judge of a writing prize.

One suggestion to them if they do reboot. Their mission "The Folio Prize is the first major English language book prize open to writers from around the world. Its aim is simple: to celebrate the best fiction of our time, regardless of form or genre." If that's what they want to do then include books translated into English as well - and then it would have a genuine USP on the UK prize scene.

I was also wondering what has been going on. Recently, their Twitter account has been going steady, still called "The Folio Prize." I myself have not heard anything about what's happening.

I thought the prize was unnecessary and their methodology deeply flawed - seemingly guaranteed to ensure that only well known books that had been out for some time could ever come to the fore. This press notice doesn't persuade me that they have found a new path - a series of dull sounding discussions held in the only Library I have ever come across that actively tries to prevent public access.

The discussions are anything but dull. This will be my third year attending. The sessions are held in a hall with tiered seating, and very comfortable seats. Quite the opposite experience of most, if not all, book festivals in the UK in terms of comfort and ease. The library seems pretty open to me, and they have lockers where luggage can be stored which is fantastic for this event, as you're arriving long before you could check into your hotel.

MisterHobgoblin wrote: "...a series of dull sounding discussions held in the only Library I have ever come across that actively tries to prevent public access."

I find it hard to associate this with my experience of British Library which always feel very open.

MisterHobgoblin wrote: "...seemingly guaranteed to ensure that only well known books that had been out for some time could ever come to the fore"

The two shortlists that they had for the prize were reasonably diverse and interesting, there were some obvious names but not all household names.

MisterHobgoblin wrote: "the only Library I have ever come across that actively tries to prevent public access."
I had thought it was that way because it's a library of deposit. Is the National Library of Australia easier for visitors? The websites sound like the access systems for the collections are very similar, and the exhibitions pretty much the same as in any large museum.

The Folio Prize is back!

Their latest gimmick for 2017, in order to differentiate themselves from the Booker, is to include non-fiction vs. fiction in one prize.

www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/24...

It really is a prize in search of a purpose...

The shortlist for the relaunched Rathbone Folio Prize is now out

The Vanishing Velázquez: A 19th Century Bookseller’s Obsession with a Lost Masterpiece by Laura Cumming
The Return: Fathers, Sons, and the Land in Between by Hisham Matar
This Census-Taker by China Miéville
The Sport of Kings by C. E. Morgan
The Argonauts by Maggie Nelson
Golden Hill by Francis Spufford
Do Not Say We Have Nothing by Madeleine Thien
Burning Country: Syrians in Revolution and War
by Robin Yassin-Kassab & Leila Al-Shami

Mixed views on this.

On the plus side it is a strong list. If someone only wanted to read 8 books published in the UK in the last year and they chose this list to read then they would get a great overview of the best of writing (more so than any other award shortlist I suspect).

And it is great to see a writer like China Miéville, one of the UKs most innovative writers and usually unfairly pigeonholed (including by me!) as genre, appearing alongside more typical literary fiction prize winners. See here for Gumble's Yard's review of this one https://www.goodreads.com/review/show.... And the inclusion of a non-fiction book on the complexities of the Syrian situation is particularly timely.

But I like awards to also point me in the direction of great new books I might not otherwise have read, and here it is a let down. This is instead more of a something of a best-off-other-awards list: we have, inter alia, two Bailey's shortlistees, the Costa First Novel winner, a Booker shortlistee, the winner of the National Book Critics Circle Award for Criticism, a James Tait Black Memorial Prize Nominee, a Giller Prize winner, a book from the record three-time Arthur C Clarke Prize winner, a Costa Biography prize nominee etc.

Worth saying that Do Not Say We Have Nothing is emerging as the most garlanded (both wins and shortlistings) novel of 2016 in the UK & Canada.

And two longlistees for the Baillie Gifford (formerly Samuel Johnston) Prize, one of those also shortlisted.

Indeed - I ran out of enthusiasm for listing the lot! If it had set itself up as a Best Of award, fair enough, but given it has this elaborate Folio Academy ("an international group of 300+ esteemed writers and critics') to do the nominations one might have expected something more innovative.

Although perhaps that is the issue - if you solicit views from 300 people (and mostly writers not critics) don't be surprised if you end up with such a lift.

I am excited to see this in hopes that they hold their weekend festival in London.

Hopefully so. Although the reduced prize amount (it has halved in amount) doesn't suggest they are awash with cash to fund events.

So far all they have announced is that the prize ceremony will be at the British Library.

Paul, I agree that this list is like a best of.

Unless they can find a USP I think this prize will fold. I want a prize to surprise, not collate.

They seem to see their USP as the Academy. But even that seems odd - 300+ luminaries of literature and between them they only nominated 62 books for the judges to consider.

As I mentioned above there is an obvious USP up for grabs - allow translated fiction to compete with original English: that's a much more sensible contest that having fiction vs. biography.

There is an event with readings from shortlisted authors at the British Library on 23 May

https://www.bl.uk/events/rathbones-fo...

And the winner (of the UK book award most in need of a USP) is

The Return: Fathers, Sons, and the Land in Between by Hisham Matar

The 2018 Rathbones Folio Prize shortlist is out:

Anything Is Possible by Elizabeth Strout
Conversations with Friends by Sally Rooney
Exit West by Mohsin Hamid
White Tears by Hari Kunzru
Ghosts of the Tsunami: Death and Life in Japan’s Disaster Zone
Once Upon A Time in the East: A Story of Growing Up by Xiaolu Guo
The Day That Went Missing by Richard Beard (a family memoir by a previously Goldsmiths listed fiction writer)

and obviously the one book that rightly features in every prize
Reservoir 13

The Guardian chose to link this with a story about the American domination of the Booker:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...

Well the link make sense - the Booker's change was a direct response to the Folio Prize.

But given the Folio Prize started it seems rather bizarre for their academy to call for the Booker to change its rules! Why did they sign up as academy members in the first place if that is their view?

And as Gumble has often pointed out the Booker solution is simple.

Move all non UK/Irish books over to the MBI.

That would actually be a net benefit to translated fiction since the MBI would likely get a boost in profile.

There's quite a difference between Booker and Folio in that the Folio selects books nominated by members, and the Booker receives books nominated by publishers. Including US authors dilutes the Booker whereas the Folio was designed differently.

I will go to the Folio Sessions on the 7th of May. It is a Monday during the day, so a bit of a change from previous years when it was held on a weekend.

Paul wrote: "And as Gumble has often pointed out the Booker solution is simple.

Move all non UK/Irish books over to the MBI.

That would actually be a net benefit to translated fiction since the MBI would like..."

It sounds simple, but it is still by no means straightforward to categorise people with dual citizenship. And in theory, a British/Irish writer could already qualify for the MBI by writing in another language, say Irish, Welsh or Gaelic and getting it translated...

But the Goldsmiths has rules that work as did the Booker previously. All they have to do is reinstate the old rules and say anyone not eligible for one can enter the other. And yes an author could be eligible for both but that is true now.

Maybe we should declare American English to be a foreign language!

Bookexit

Seriously although I do like the idea of The Booker accepting US authors, I think it is only fair that prizes such as the Pulitzer or Giller do the same

Fair point Will and apologies, I will delete my comment (although Robert's immortalises my faux pas - up to him if he wants to tidy that up).

Certainly wasn't intended to have that angle (see my "love" for Nathan Hill, Paul Auster and Lisa Halliday).

Translation does typically involve not just language but some cultural translation as well which I think gets missed sometimes in the "two countries divided by a common language" - the mixed reaction to Reservoir 13 was an example the other way round.

Tidied :)

Yes I am rather guilty of the sentiments in your last sentence (along with the Nobel committee it seems) - apologies again.

No, problem Paul. I'm going to go ahead and delete my comments since Robert 'tidied' up.

Winner

https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...

I have been trying to make room for this on my reading list and keep getting distracted. I did read a couple of chapters and think it a worthy winner.

Judges for 2019 announced:

https://www.rathbonesfolioprize.com/u...

Some good news here on sponsorship side.

Rathbones have extended their sponsorship to 2023. The prize money has increased to 30,000 (from 20k) and the sponsorship also covers the mentorships for four gifted young writers from disadvantaged backgrounds and the Rathbones Folio Sessions.

https://www.thebookseller.com/news/ra...

I am still not convinced this prize has established its identity but the sponsorship does seem sensibly directed.

I wish they had stuck to fiction only, or separated into two prizes if they want to include non-fiction. I've lost interest to an extent, and I was one of it's biggest fans to start with.

2019 longlist out

Another Milkman (yay!) vs Normal People (booooooooo) face-off with some added RoC interest by the inclusion of Murmur

https://www.rathbonesfolioprize.com/

Non-fiction:
Can You Tolerate This by Ashleigh Young (Bloomsbury)
Ghost Trees by Bob Gilbert (Saraband)
I Am Dynamite! - Friedrich Nietzsche by Sue Prideaux (Faber)
The Crossway by Guy Stagg (Picador)
The Library of Ice by Nancy Campbell (Simon & Schuster)

Novels:
House of Stone by Novuyo Rosa Tshuma (Atlantic)
Land of The Living by Georgina Harding (Bloomsbury)
Little by Edward Carey (Aardvark)
Mary Ann Sate by Alice Jolly (Unbound)
Milkman by Anna Burns (Faber).
Murmur by Will Eaves (CB editions)
Normal People by Sally Rooney (Faber)
Ordinary People by Diana Evans (Chatto)
Red Birds by Mohammed Hanif (Bloomsbury)
There, There by Tommy Orange (Harvill)

Short story collections:
Mothers by Chris Power (Faber)

Novellas:
West by Carys Davies (Granta)

Poetry
The Perseverance by Raymond Antrobus (Penned in)
Us by Zaffar Kunial (Faber)
Francis: A Life In Songs by Ann Wroe (Cape)

I've read 5 of the 10 novels: in order of preference
1. Murmur
2. Milkman (joint 1st really)
3. Ordinary People
4. Red Birds
5. Normal People
6 There There

On their site, they don't even separate them into fiction or nonfiction. Thanks for doing that.

Well milkman better win. I’m a convert

I'm so glad to see There There included. It was one of my best reads from 2018.

That's a great list and another RoC link with Chris Powers (who hosted the discussion between last year's winner and last year's shortlisted author) at the recent Love Takes Risk UEA/RoC seminar.

That's a very good list - Murmur, Normal People and Milkman are all, very deservedly, getting multiple award listings

Robert wrote: "Well milkman better win. I’m a convert"

I am not sure that's in the spirit of the society that the book describes; or in the spirit of the rather fraught discussions it seems to have given rise to among readers - the whole idea is to inherit a deeply entrenched position and thereafter refuse to countenance the opposite view.

Ang wrote: "On their site, they don't even separate them into fiction or nonfiction. Thanks for doing that."

On their site they don't even list them in a cut-and-pastable manner. Luckily the Bookseller did - and did the sorting as well!

carissa wrote: "House of Stone Novuyo by Rosa Tshuma (Atlantic) needs an edit. Novuyo is the author' first name."

Thanks. Blame the Bookseller, that's what they reported!

I've also read 5 of the fiction, and agree with Paul's ranking. But for me replace Ordinary People with There, There at #3. In the nonfiction I've read the Sue Prideaux, and it is superb.

I didn't spot There, There there!

added that to my list - 6th for me I'm afraid - the end was too contrived.

Oh I'm so glad you feel that way on There,There. It seems that everyone else loves it. I give it some points for being interesting and well done before the end. I'm reading through the International Booker and giving Drive Your Plow similar points, despite the end.

I so loved Exploding Mangoes that everything else of Hanif's has been a huge dude to me, this the most.