Jane Austen discussion
Group Read: Eligible
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Part 3: Chap. 112 thru 152
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SarahC, Austen Votary & Mods' Asst.
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Jun 05, 2016 07:16AM

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1) Kathy De Bourgh is really nice here. I guess the author is playing with our expectations, but again she is stealing some of the comedy from the original novel and replacing it with what in my opinion are just platitudes. I think perhaps this is also meant to signal the actual theme of the book. So in the original, Lady Catherine was supposed to signal that not all is what it seems, and it was supposed to be an ironic twist that Darcy has embarrassing family too. She was also the extreme version of pride, which contrasts with Darcy's, so that we can see that he's not actually so very bad in comparison. Here, because Katherine de Bourgh is just a top feminist with no negative characteristics, I think she is meant to signal the feminist overtones of the book. However, I don't know if this was intentional, but I suspect not, the superficial way in which the philosophy is covered in Lizzy's interview with her, echoes the superficial way in which these themes are addressed in the book too, so in a way, I feel like I can see what Sittenfeld is doing here, I just don't think she was successful in doing it.
2) I am very sadly finding that Darcy/Lizzy chemistry is not there. Of course, this was an issue for me in the previous section, because of the weird sex scenes, which ruined it all for me. I'm not very conservative, personally, and I am not overly precious about all my romance heroines being virgins or anything like that, but for chemistry to exist I just need a certain tension, and when two characters go to bed together a part of that tension I feel is kind of resolved. In this section, I am finding it difficult to understand why Lizzy can boldly offer sex to a guy, but then finds it difficult to tell him she likes him after he had already told her he liked her. This seems weirdly inconsistent. I suppose maybe she is shy because it matters to her now, when before it didn't, but it's just so weird that she turned from this cynical, bitter woman who offers sex to guys she doesn't even like and accepts Jasper's weird marital situation without a problem, into this girlish girl who gets excited about looking cute. I mean - is that really the story arc of Elizabeth Bennet!?
3) I hope someone can explain to me why Lydia and Ham's elopement necessitates Lizzy taking a flight home *that very minute*. I have a new crease between my eyebrows from trying to puzzle this one out. I mean, exactly what is she trying to accomplish? I get that she wants to be with her family, and that she predicts it's going to be a shock to her mother's system (though why she should care that her mother might be upset about this is beyond me), but she behaves like her sister was hit by a car and is dying and she might never see her again. Which is not what is happening. She just went off to marry her boyfriend. Honestly, this book...
Hmpf.

I did feel a bit of romantic tension in this section, at least while Liz was in CA. I've said before that I don't really like her character, and that's true. But I think when Sittenfeld had Liz sleep with Darcy, it was because the character was mad at putting her life on hold for Jasper for so long and just wanted to do something that was, in her eyes at least, completely ridiculous. When she realized there was actually some potential there and that she liked Darcy back, she probably started behaving a little more like she did when she was first interested in Jasper or anyone else.
I can even see why Liz rushed to her mother's side. She's in unfamiliar territory. A lot of things have changed in her life recently, and she recognizes a situation that she knows how to handle. My biggest disappointment with this section is Lydia's situation. In the original, Wickham is despicable and destroys the reputation of every girl he goes near. Lydia's elopement is negative from any viewpoint. In this new version, she and Ham didn't do anything wrong. Her parents need some time to get used to it, but her reputation isn't ruined forever and in everyone's eyes. It would have made more sense to have her run off with Jasper.
But as a completely separate book from Pride and Prejudice, I'm actually finding this interesting now. And I'm curious what happened with Darcy and Caroline?

Yes, the Lydia situation is weird. I can't say I understood any of it. I find Lizzy's relationship with her family weird, tbh. I know she wants to do good, but her managing her entire family like this... I don't know, my parents would kick me if I tried to do that to them. And if my brother eloped with a transgender person, it'd be something I'd discuss with my mum on Skype, maybe, but I think they'd all look at me funny if I took a flight home the same day, for no reason. And my parents are conservative and old. It'd still be weird and implausible.
And though I liked that a transgender person is in the novel - I don't like the way it is handled here. One of the first things Lizzy asks about when she finds out is Ham's penis. Then she googles about transgender people and realises that it was a ridiculous and rude thing to ask. Fair enough. But then the author still thinks it is necessary to clarify just how exactly Lydia and Ham have sex. There's another bit later in the novel, so I won't write about it here, but the point is that it's kind of like a man writing about an empowered, feminist woman only to then make sure to inform the reader that she has great boobs and legs up to here. It's just undermining her point. Which goes back to my comment about the superficiality of the feminism in this book. Despite Sittenfeld's apparent choice of direction, the women in this book are unstable, stupid, hysterical, unreliable, unpredictable and have trouble taking care of themselves. The men on the other hand are rich, have their lives together, are clever, very well educated, and only when they come in and everybody is safely married to one of them, can the women all calm down. This is not the case in the original, where marriage is necessary for socio-economic reasons, but Lizzy and Jane are perfectly reasonable human beings on their own, Jane in particular. I am not pleased.

I have not yet read the comments above by the way to avoid spoilers.

Has anyone read one of Sittenfeld's own novels? I'm just wondering if this is her usual style or if it suffers from trying to force a P&P story. (I haven't forgotten Death Comes To Pemberley)

And what happened to mean ole Lady Katherine de Burgh? What a great character and what a loss. She really got defanged in this one. Ditto Catherine Bingley--one of my favorite bitchy women. They were both central to the plot and to our understanding of pride and prejudice. And what about Charlotte and Cousin Willie. Nothing happened that had any of the pathos of Charlotte's choice to marry Mr. Collins. It's all beginning to seem like a checklist. Charlotte and Mr. Collins-check.
I'm not a by the book Austenite as I'm hardly discriminating in my choices of reading or seeing anything connected to Jane Austen with the exception of the zombie thing. I like all kinds of formats and one of my favorite movies in this vein is Bride and Prejudice--a Bollywood treatment of the story. It's full of fun and romance and obviously way off the charts from a Downton Abbey kind of setting. The big thing missing in this book for me is that sense of fun and romance.


Has anyone read one of Sittenfeld's own novels? I'm just wondering if this is her usual style or if it suffers from trying..."
Her writing credits seem really impressive, so I'm not sure what happened here!

But this may also be a problem of modernization—a modern Elizabeth Bennet is not nearly so much at the mercy of her society, so people can be weird or self-centered or even mean and they have no power to do her real harm. The gift of independence!

But, of course, it's a matter of opinion and taste. I am not much of a contemporary romance reader, to be honest, so it might be a taste thing. With Pride and Prejudice though, it's a difficult problem, because the novel means so much to so many people, so when someone takes the original material, strips it of all its nuance, adds nothing of interest it just feels... uncomfortable. But I might be overly precious here, and that's not the author's fault.


If I wasn't so near the end I would dnf.



Transplant such a woman into a society in which she is able to pursue a career, an intellectual life, and in general shape her life as she chooses. How would that change her? I think a plausible case could be made that she would no longer be a petty tyrant, but would in fact make a constructive contribution to the world—in short, she might become Kathy de Bourgh (who seems to be closely modeled on Germaine Greer).
All that said, I agree that Sittenfeld didn’t know what to do with the character, and that she pretty much just hangs there.




I've put that on my to read list.
I guess interviewing Kathy de Bourgh gave Lizzie a job. It's not a favourite trope of mine - people able to leave jobs for months.


The author has made it into a book as well

I've just watched the first You Tube episode & thought it looked very promising! :)

I will post the final section this afternoon. I know some of us have not caught up, but you here are having some good conversation, so I don't want to halt that. Posting soon! We can all catch up on our own time and I know many of us will still be following the conversation for new comments.

Yes, I just looked at the preview and it looks good! I might actually read that. The show was indeed excellent, and I thought it dealt with the reinterpretation in a much more plausible way on all fronts.

Thanks Sarah. I finished the book yesterday. I know you asked us to try to stay with the schedule but I was away for the weekend & only packed one book. :)

First of all, I was pleased Charlotte and Liz got along again.
I didn't really bother Kathy de Bourgh much but you're right that her appearance in the novel seems to serve no real purpose (at least so far). Perhaps the passage with Kathy de Bourgh was written to show us that Liz is a capable and respectable journalist?
I did like the way Darcy behaved upon seeing Liz again. After all she had rejected him the last time they had seen each other. I'm actually starting to like him from this section on.
I can understand why Liz had to return home immediately after she learned the news of Lydia's elopement. No matter how you look upon it this really caused a situation of crisis within her family and since Liz is the only one with sense in the family she had to get back (even though there was nothing she could really do about the situation). I see that happening a lot in family's where the parents rely so heavily on their adult children that they often interfere with the lives of their children which is definitely not a healthy situation.
But then again I can also understand your reaction, Emily, why she had to leave "that very minute" because that will have been Darcy's reaction too. I can imagine his annoyance with the Bennets. And it was also an afterthought with Liz when she was on her flight back home by realizing that this sudden drama with her family was blowing up her chances with Darcy.
I have to agree with Hannah that Lydia running away with Jasper would have been a far more interesting situation. I like Ham, he seems like a nice person. Far better than Lydia deserves ;) There's actually nothing wrong in the union between Lydia and Ham and in the end Mr & Mrs Bennet will have gained a nice son-in-law as was not the case with Wickham in the original P&P.
Thank you for the recommendation of the Lizzie Bennet Diaries. I had never watched it before but I've watched the first 3 episodes now and it seems promising. Will definitely continue watching.
I am still digesting --- this book seems to need a lot of digesting from my view. Everyone is this discussion has outlined things so well -- and you are certainly seeing many sides to the story, the plot, the characters. I love these commentaries!
I have distilled to the fact that, for example, the use of the original characters doesnt bother me. For example, Kathy de Bourgh. I cannot exactly tell what the author wanted readers to take away from this character and her classic connection. Maybe it will be fulfilled by the end of the book.
But I do hope to answer this question for myself by the end of the book: Along with using all the classic characters and names, what is the story telling us? Why did the characters go through all they did? What was it for?
Emily's comments #2 and #4 above speak to several of my thoughts. I think there is an artificial modernism in this book. We are given much "free" talk - as far as vocab, anything goes. We have a lot of sex details. Do these really add to a story? In the year 2016, do we really find those enticing or instructive? Page-turning? I say not really. But in this modern story, populated with a LOT of women, do we find any characters here that can even communicate themselves out of a wet paper bag? Yes, Jane and Liz are pretty good at handling the parent/sisters crisis. But when men are involved, a brain shutdown. In 2016, when we do not have social or etiquette barriers to saying what we mean and feel, do women really want to read this type of story? Emily uses the term, superficial feminism in her post above. Good question. Liz can propose a sex encounter with a well-spoken, educated man, but she can't communicate words with him at a restaurant table or riding in a car. ?? As Karen says in comment #16, this is really just depressing.
If the Jane Austen classic audience is believed by modern publishers to be a captive audience, with dollars to spend on buying this book, what do they think we think? Or what do they think we talk about? Tea parties and good-looking men and our "chances" with them? Have we evolved to other subjects in 200 years? Yes, actually, we have. And we even talk to men about those subjects. We have some pretty vibrant, sparkling, interesting, conversations too. (Like in this group, if any evidence is needed!)
I have distilled to the fact that, for example, the use of the original characters doesnt bother me. For example, Kathy de Bourgh. I cannot exactly tell what the author wanted readers to take away from this character and her classic connection. Maybe it will be fulfilled by the end of the book.
But I do hope to answer this question for myself by the end of the book: Along with using all the classic characters and names, what is the story telling us? Why did the characters go through all they did? What was it for?
Emily's comments #2 and #4 above speak to several of my thoughts. I think there is an artificial modernism in this book. We are given much "free" talk - as far as vocab, anything goes. We have a lot of sex details. Do these really add to a story? In the year 2016, do we really find those enticing or instructive? Page-turning? I say not really. But in this modern story, populated with a LOT of women, do we find any characters here that can even communicate themselves out of a wet paper bag? Yes, Jane and Liz are pretty good at handling the parent/sisters crisis. But when men are involved, a brain shutdown. In 2016, when we do not have social or etiquette barriers to saying what we mean and feel, do women really want to read this type of story? Emily uses the term, superficial feminism in her post above. Good question. Liz can propose a sex encounter with a well-spoken, educated man, but she can't communicate words with him at a restaurant table or riding in a car. ?? As Karen says in comment #16, this is really just depressing.
If the Jane Austen classic audience is believed by modern publishers to be a captive audience, with dollars to spend on buying this book, what do they think we think? Or what do they think we talk about? Tea parties and good-looking men and our "chances" with them? Have we evolved to other subjects in 200 years? Yes, actually, we have. And we even talk to men about those subjects. We have some pretty vibrant, sparkling, interesting, conversations too. (Like in this group, if any evidence is needed!)


I love that question! Because those who love Jane Austen, men and women, the legions who adore her, do so for a thousand better reasons than just that there happens to be a romance in her stories. As I said elsewhere in the discussion of Eligible, the original Pride and Prejudice is an accomplished novel, not 'just' a romance. Besides the writing itself, which is masterful, the precise construction of the plot, and the profound psychological analysis that goes into it, it also manages to be light, romantic and funny. There's few novels out there that manage to be one of those things with equal success! So yeah, they definitely misjudged their audience if they thought they could sell us basically just another contemporary romance* with just familiarly named characters.
* I don't mean to sound scornful about romance the genre. There's nothing wrong with it. In fact, I don't think Eligible stands up amongst the best of that genre either.
Yes, Emily. I think rereading Pride and Prejudice (and all of her books) is often a good idea -- and helps find treasure hidden within the obvious good storyline. Lot of people have a misunderstanding that Austen is "only" this or that few things. Hers are complex novels about humans and society, so well-written. We, here, wonder at how they can be so undersold!
I appreciate how carefully you commented to make yourself understood. I will do the same in regards to the Sittenfeld. Of course this author has included many current relevant topics: reality tv, single parenting, racial and ethnic bias, and much more, and a modern reader, I appreciate that, and it shows bravery of the author. However, it does seem like so many subjects have been included, but not really absorbed into the story and into the author's relationship with the reader. If a social topic is brought in -- racial or gender prejudice, we could have found out more about one of the character's true thoughts/feelings/connections with that issue. That could have been the power or delicacy of this book.
Another comparison to Pride and Prejudice (I agree with what you Emily, and other members of the group are saying). In P&P, for example, Elizabeth meets the formidable Catherine deB. This plot is not about Darcy, this is about Elizabeth knowing and showing her worth as Catherine's (society's) equal. This story ties into the romance of the story, but this part is ELIZABETH's story. How she rises to the challenge, protects her privacy against the woman, and speaks her voice (in all ways). Mr. Collins and others live to please Lady C. Elizabeth realizes a line must be drawn for her personally -- against the grain -- and she draws it. Austen's works are not simple romances! These elements are throughout all of her stories!
I appreciate how carefully you commented to make yourself understood. I will do the same in regards to the Sittenfeld. Of course this author has included many current relevant topics: reality tv, single parenting, racial and ethnic bias, and much more, and a modern reader, I appreciate that, and it shows bravery of the author. However, it does seem like so many subjects have been included, but not really absorbed into the story and into the author's relationship with the reader. If a social topic is brought in -- racial or gender prejudice, we could have found out more about one of the character's true thoughts/feelings/connections with that issue. That could have been the power or delicacy of this book.
Another comparison to Pride and Prejudice (I agree with what you Emily, and other members of the group are saying). In P&P, for example, Elizabeth meets the formidable Catherine deB. This plot is not about Darcy, this is about Elizabeth knowing and showing her worth as Catherine's (society's) equal. This story ties into the romance of the story, but this part is ELIZABETH's story. How she rises to the challenge, protects her privacy against the woman, and speaks her voice (in all ways). Mr. Collins and others live to please Lady C. Elizabeth realizes a line must be drawn for her personally -- against the grain -- and she draws it. Austen's works are not simple romances! These elements are throughout all of her stories!
Also, this made me think. The original character of Jane. Also a literary character with more than meets the eye, in my thinking. I wonder in the Sittenfeld, if Jane could not have been more brought into the story. A thinking, feeling, empathic character like Jane Bennet ...here it seems she was divided mainly into the separate storyline of her own pregnancy and the relationship with Bingley.
Instead of leaving town, why not have kept her a part of the family happenings, sharing insight and connecting/talking/communicating with what was happening with the Bennets? This would have added dimension to Jane as well as to the storyline -- more personal maybe.
Instead of leaving town, why not have kept her a part of the family happenings, sharing insight and connecting/talking/communicating with what was happening with the Bennets? This would have added dimension to Jane as well as to the storyline -- more personal maybe.
Yes, Hannah. I know I am sharing my criticism here more than I thought I would, but I always come back to the fact that this book has "Pride and Prejudice" stated on the front cover. It is difficult not to make a comparison with the original and to honestly share our expectations or some of our general reading preferences as Jane Austen readers. We did have the novel brought before us because we were Austen followers, after all. Please share any more thought on this that you have.

Absolutely!! As I commented somewhere else in this discussion: Jane Bennett has a quiet intelligence and strength and maturity of her own in the original novel, whereas in Eligible she is such a non-entity! In the original, she is the only person in Meryton who does not hate Darcy, and cautions Elizabeth to be careful about her judgements. In Eligible? What's her point, really? The only reason she is not as offensive as the other sisters is because she's not as rude as them!
But the same goes for Charles Bingley! In the original he was actually very witty, too! Like that time when Elizabeth and Darcy were bickering in Netherfield trying to come up with all the different variables that impact a persons decision-making, and Charles Bingley interrupts: "By all means! Let us hear all the particulars, not forgetting their comparative height and size!" which is actually really funny! Or that time when he arranges for Elizabeth and Darcy to have some alone time at the end of the novel:
Mrs Bennet: "I advise Mr. Darcy, and Lizzy, and Kitty to walk to Oakham Mount this morning. It is a nice long walk, and Mr. Darcy has never seen the view."
Mr Bingley: "It may do very well for the others, but I am sure it will be too much for Kitty. Won't it, Kitty?"
He is really loveable in the original! In Eligible Jane can barely feed herself on her own earnings, and Bingley is his sister's lapdog! Ugh!



Not only does this compare to the best of romance, this doesn't even compare with the best of chick lit.
& Jane is a parasite (a sweet parasite, but still a parasite) She is nearly 40 & her father is still paying her rent. Then she goes to mooch off friends.I don't understand why Sittenfeld didn't have Jane living in a less expensive city than New York and/or sharing an apartment.
I edited for clarity & to make another point.

Not only does this not feed off the best of romance, this doesn't even compare with the best of chick lit.
& Jane is a parasite (a sweet parasite, but still a..."
Yup! Once more I find the portrayal of her character in the Lizzy Bennet Diaries to be much better constructed. As is her split and reunion from Bingley. Here she is a total flop.