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QQ: Do you ever read the ending first?
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Renee, Moderator
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Jul 02, 2016 03:36PM
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For me it's a no never. I want the whole experience in the way the author intended.
Deborah wrote: "For me it's a no never. I want the whole experience in the way the author intended."Ditto.
But my mother-in-law got through a ton of books by the philosophy of reading just the first chapter and the last chapter. She claimed that all the middle was unnecessary to understanding the author's viewpoint.
Leni wrote: "No! Never!People actually do that!?"
Heh heh! That was my reaction too, Leni, so I'm glad it's not just me ;-) I've skipped to the end of a book on occasions when I'm really not enjoying it, know I'll never want to read it again, but am intrigued to know how it finishes. But otherwise... I'd no more read the end than I would a random paragraph in the middle, for precisely the reason that Deb mentions. A story is virtually always a journey or a quest of some sort and what makes stories work well for me is the way that you are lead along that path and live the quest along with the protagonists.
I'm so freaked out now by the idea that some people really do do this, that I've just Googled "why do some people read the end of a novel first" and the first result was the following article which might or might not add something to the discussion - personally, I still think it's bizarre :-))https://www.theguardian.com/books/boo...
Pip wrote: "I'm so freaked out now by the idea that some people really do do this, that I've just Googled "why do some people read the end of a novel first" and the first result was the following article which..."Well, I suppose in a way it's like the benefit one gets from re-reading a book; you know the major plot twists, so can focus on other aspects of the work.
I imagine that shoddy book reviewers may often read the beginning and ending of books and review based mostly on that.
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Oh that is just too funny!
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Interestingly enough, I used to do that a whole lot more before the advent of the kindle. It is a whole lot easier with a dead tree book in a bored moment to skip a few, or a lot, of pages ahead and see where its going.
Everyman wrote: "Well, I suppose in a way it's like the benefit one gets from re-reading a book; you know the major plot twists, so can focus on other aspects of the work. "Yes, I did think of that when I read the article; I'm currently re-reading The Little Stranger by Sarah Waters for another GR group, and I have to say that, knowing how it ends, I'm far more intrigued about how she got to that point. However, that argument still only stands for a re-read in my view because I still love the being led blindfold aspect of a new book.
I was also wondering how "end-first readers" deal with books which are written with reverse chronology.... Mind-boggling!!
Pip wrote: "I'm so freaked out now by the idea that some people really do do this, that I've just Googled "why do some people read the end of a novel first" and the first result was the following article which..."I'm with you Pip-the mere idea appalls me.
Christa-you are clearly a more evolved reader than the rest of us but I will remain a committed no spoilers please reader.
What "moral" indignation! I am amused. I delayed reading this thread because I guessed such a leaning among this crew. (I rather hope that some of those of you who say "never" try it. You may like it or, at the minimum, find it occasionally useful.)My f2f book club knows I am willing to skip to the end of a book and accuses me of it far more often than I do it. Probably the most likely reason is deciding whether I am interested in investing the time in the middle of the book (for books that have bogged down) or needing to put aside a book for other activities, books that would otherwise divert my time by calling read me, read me. Then, as mentioned, one can return to the middle to follow the twists and turns, somewhat as one can on a second read. For one who seldom read again, the method often created time to savor and follow the development and the writing.
Those of you who comment on the difficulties of skipping when reading a book without a coherent time sequence are quite right -- such may make an attempt only frustrating. I am seldom like Eman's mother-in-law, using the practice as a kind of speed reading, unless the story just doesn't seem to warrant further investment. If anything, overall it may more slow me down and reduce skimming. I can tend to immerse myself in a book, especially a novel, rather than parse it over time or into specific periods of the day.
(I waited to read the Guardian article until I wrote the above. I will say, for me, mysteries are the one fiction genre where I may especially enjoy reading for the plot and not skip ahead -- at least, if it is "a good mystery." But then, some of you may argue, any good story is a mystery....)
Always happy to amuse Lily, as well she knows, haha!, though not sure I appreciate being linked to "a crew"!! I stick to my guns, though. I'm not saying I've "never" read the end of a book before I actually got there (see above) but I still don't get it from a pure enjoyment point of view. If you more or less understand the point of an argument before it has been demonstrated to you, you could just say "yes, fine, I can see that". But when you've been lead there through a series of scenarios which are designed to make you believe you are thinking for yourself - what more delicious self-delusion is there than that?!
The most skilled authors - both the old and the new - are capable of entertaining us at the same time as thrilling us with character and/or plot development. That, for me, is the initial experience and I wouldn't sacrifice that for anything if it's a half-way decent novel.
Re-reading a well-crafted novel is equally delightful because we pick up on elements we know with hindsight, but which we hadn't fully appreciated at the first reading. Just as lovely.
Lily - you mention mysteries as one genre where you don't generally skip ahead. For me, all stories are a mystery of sorts. There's a reason why they're told in a particular order. The premise appears in the opening paragraphs; the mystery is the bulk of the novel and the ending is the "big reveal". That big reveal might be "you'll never guess what!" or "well done, you were right!" or it might be "everything you believed is wrong, and the world is damned" - but it is essential that the ending is at the end.
Gosh. V long post. V burbley. Possibly too much lovely wine this evening. Is there anything worth salvaging from my well-meaning rant?
Pip wrote: "Always happy to amuse Lily, as well she knows, haha!, though not sure I appreciate being linked to "a crew"!! I stick to my guns, though. I'm not saying I've "never" read the end of a book before..."
Pip, you've once again made me smile. I agree completely. While a reread is nice and you do see things you might have missed, there's something special about reading a great book for the first time. I want to savor that experience by not skipping ahead. But then I'm not a skimmer either. It causes some difficulties as there are usually more books I want to read during the month than I can get to, my tbr pile doesn't decrease as rapidly as I would like, and there's never enough time to read :)
Deborah wrote: "...But then I'm not a skimmer either. It causes some difficulties as there are usually more books I want to read during the month than I can get to, my tbr pile doesn't decrease as rapidly as I would like, and there's never enough time to read :)..."Deborah -- I've yet to find a technique effective at reducing a TBR collection more rapidly than it increases!
...there's something special about reading a great book for the first time.
At this point in my life, I'm not sure I much share that feeling. I more often feel as if I wish I'd already read it and could figure out how to pass on the value I found to others without their needing to make the same investment in time and effort. Even though I know they might well find things of greater worth than I did by reading the book themselves.
Pip wrote: "Always happy to amuse Lily, as well she knows, haha!, though not sure I appreciate being linked to "a crew"!! ...Pip -- I certainly didn't intend to offend you, Pip. I rather most happily consider myself part of "this crew", even if an outlier within it!
For me, all stories are a mystery of sorts.
I meant to recognize that when I wrote: "But then, some of you may argue, any good story is a mystery...."
"The most skilled authors - both the old and the new - are capable of entertaining us at the same time as thrilling us with character and/or plot development. That, for me, is the initial experience and I wouldn't sacrifice that for anything if it's a half-way decent novel. "
True, but pleasurable as I find reading, I am not certain I often think of reading as "entertainment." My words are more that it is a way of learning so as to be able to experience and observe "the real world" more accurately and vividly and with greater understanding. (Maybe writing these words helps me understand why I am not generally drawn to fantasy or even magical realism...? Will have to add that to the pondering queue.) Maybe if I thought of reading as "entertainment", I could better discipline the time I spend at it. Perhaps. Maybe.
(Incidentally, jumping back to the original question, I don't consider 'reading the ending first' as a 'temptation.' I rather look upon it as a technique, one of many available to us when reading, to be used or not used as appropriate or desired in the circumstances.)
Lily wrote: "I certainly didn't intend to offend you, Pip."Absolutely no offence was taken - I was being tongue-in-cheek ;-)
Lily wrote: "pleasurable as I find reading, I am not certain I often think of reading as "entertainment." My words are more that it is a way of learning so as to be able to experience and observe "the real world" more accurately and vividly and with greater understanding."That's very interesting. I agree with you entirely that reading fiction can give us a better understanding of life and lives; however, the difference between a novel and a report or a film and a documentary is surely that there is an added element of creativity, imagination and entertainment involved? I wonder perhaps if we (and I am including myself) have started to associate "entertainment" too much with its frequent adjectival collocation "light", and therefore look down upon it unreasonably? Thinking aloud.
Pip wrote: "I wonder perhaps if we ... have started to associate "entertainment" too much with its frequent adjectival collocation "light", and therefore look down upon it unreasonably?Definition of entertainment(view spoiler)
It is interesting that here the first definition of entertainment pertains to hospitality towards a guest, and then goes on to providing provisions. Only the third one directly tackles the idea of amusement: "something that diverts, amuses, or occupies the attention agreeably."
My views probably stem from childhood, where entertainment started with listening to "The Lone Ranger" on the radio or going to a community picnic.
I don't disagree with your implication Pip that "entertainment" can be looked down upon unreasonably, but I don't think it is necessarily so. Many edifying experiences I certainly consider "entertainment." Books and reading just don't particularly get categorized that way for me, although I suspect they do for others, including my friends who view reading as usurping other activities.
Lily wrote: "Deborah wrote: "...But then I'm not a skimmer either. It causes some difficulties as there are usually more books I want to read during the month than I can get to, my tbr pile doesn't decrease as ..."We definitely have a different view on this. I get excited about reading something for the first time. I then want to share the book so others may have the experience of reading. My books are like friends to me that I get to spend time with - although limited. Not the best way to phrase this. I'm not at my best today.
Deborah wrote: "I get excited about reading something for the first time. I then want to share the book so others may have the experience of reading...."Deborah -- It sounds to me as if you may have more friends that like to read the same things you do than is perhaps true for me. My friends and family usually turn up their noses at what I offer, unless my f2f club or these online discussions or other group selection! :-(
May tomorrow be an easier day or whatever you might consider "better."
"A novel is a work of imagination, it is not a dissertation. When a writer writes a book, he or she makes a pact with the reader. For a writer of non-fiction the contract is clear. The author pertains to objectivity. The reader may rely on the facts contained therein, the writer promises (to the best of their ability) to provide a factual truth. A writer of fiction makes no such promises. Fiction is subjective: it comes from within the writer, and, not only that, the story itself is composed of a sequence of lies. The writer of fiction says to the reader only this: come with me on a journey of the imagination and I will try to show you something you have not seen before. This is the gift of the writer to the reader. The reader’s gift is to bring to this alchemy their own imagination and their own experiences." Aminatta Fornahttps://www.theguardian.com/books/201...
This "gift" of a writer to the reader may in some way relate to the relationship of reader/reading to writer/writing discussion that we seem to be having. Is some sort of reader-writer bond changed by the choices of the reader, given that the choices of the writer are fixed by the time they reach the reader? Is there a difference between reader-writer relationships and reader-text relationships and do both play into reader choices?
(I find those relationships are changed by listening versus reading, by book versus ebook -- perhaps other factors not occurring to me now.)
Incidentally, my writing teacher speaks of the truths of fiction.
Lily wrote: "Deborah wrote: "I get excited about reading something for the first time. I then want to share the book so others may have the experience of reading...."Deborah -- It sounds to me as if you may h..."
Lily I used to just share my books by donating them to the library. It always made me feel as if I was sharing them with somebody else. I do send some of mine to one friend in CA, who then gives them to her friend when done, who then shares them with others.
Deborah wrote: "Lily I used to just share my books by donating them to the library. It always made me feel as if I was sharing them with somebody else. I do send some of mine to one friend in CA, who then gives them to her friend when done, who then shares them with others...."Neat! :-o ;-)
I'll loan mine, but they become like an extended memory for me that I want to be able to pull from the shelf. Which often turns out to be illusory in practice. ;-( Still, I do have books for which I enjoy browsing my marginalia of fifty years ago....
Lily wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Lily I used to just share my books by donating them to the library. It always made me feel as if I was sharing them with somebody else. I do send some of mine to one friend in CA, w..."Some I keep because I can't bear to part with them.
Deborah wrote: "Some I keep because I can't bear to part with them.."I actually have a pile of about thirty to go to the library book sale.
Of course, they're all duplicates, either exact when I bought something I didn't know I already had, or the same book in different editions and I can spare one of the editions (usually the ones without the good introductions).
Other than that, my books are MINE and they're STAYING mine.
:/
Everyman wrote: "Deborah wrote: "Some I keep because I can't bear to part with them.."I actually have a pile of about thirty to go to the library book sale.
Of course, they're all duplicates, either exact when I..."
Lol. Some I read as complete relaxation. I call them my junk food books. Those go to the friend. Some I label and ask for her to return to me when she's done because I want to keep them. Some never get sent because they are special in some way - antique, hard to find, first edition, etc. My house would explode if I didn't give some up.
