Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 discussion

Use this topic thread for all The Guermantes Way discussions through page 273 / location 20795.

I liked the bit where the narrator came back and saw his grandmother sitting there, before she noticed him, and felt he was watching his own absence:

Of myself - thanks to that privilege which does not last but which one enjoys during the brief moment of return, the faculty of being a spectator, so to speak, of one's own absence

I was quite shocked when the narrator found out that Saint-Loup's girlfriend was 'Rachel when from the Lord'! This quote was really nice:

I saw that what had appeared to me to be not worthy of twenty francs when if had been offered to me for twenty francs in the house of ill fame, where it was then for me simply a woman desirous of earning twenty francs, might be worth more than a million, more than one's family, more than all the most coveted positions in life if one had begun by imagining her to embody a strange creature, interesting to know, difficult to seize and to hold

I wonder if she recognized him as well? She seemed fine and calm while they were talking on the train about Dreyfus and Robert's family.

Wow, Rachel is really out of luck here, first her lover's best friend knew her from the prostitution house, and then 'two poor little 'tarts'' also ran into her on the street while with Robert! I enjoyed another passage:

In short, Rachel had for the moment duplicated herself in his eyes, he had seen, at some distance from his own Rachel, the little 'tart' Rachel, the real Rachel, assuming that Rachel the 'tart' was more real than the other.

I wish we could hear Rachel's thoughts when that happened!

Renato wrote: "I liked the bit where the narrator came back and saw his grandmother sitting there, before she noticed him, and felt he was watching his own absence:

Of myself - thanks to that privilege which doe..."

I've only read a couple of pages into this week's reading as the narrator's homecoming seemed a more natural break point. The phone call to his grandmother and his return home was actually quite touching. When he loses the phone connection it reminds him of being lost as a child and when he sees her reading a book, unaware of the narrator's presence, she's described as 'a crushed old woman whom I did not know.'

Yes, that was very interesting, Jonathan!

St-Loup's displays of jealousy were annoying to me - every time Rachel looked at another man he would say something and ask her to stop looking etc.. - even thought his jealousy had fundaments, as revealed by this passage:

And sometimes she found that Robert had shewn such good judgement in his suspicion that after a little she even left off teasing him in order that he might calm down and consent to go off by himself on some errand which would give her time to begin conversation with the stranger, often to make an assignation, sometimes even to bring matters quickly to a head.

Wow at St-Loup beating up the guy who hit on him on the street. I know just moments before he slapped another man for an even more ridiculous reason, but still... and apparently homosexual behavior was against the law? I know some countries were (some still are to this day... ugh) strictly against it. I wish Proust had written more about this subject and this event in particular.

It was coincidental that while I was writing this, in the previous topic for last week's reading, Dwayne mentioned a latent homosexuality between the narrator and St. Loup.

re the telephone, I'm highlighting the narrator's references to technology through the book. from the phone and automobile to the x-ray, they seem to reshape or reframe time or space, and they sometimes appear to divide us into components: our bodies, information issuing from them, what lies hidden, etc.

Renato wrote: "Wow at St-Loup beating up the guy who hit on him on the street. I know just moments before he slapped another man for an even more ridiculous reason, but still... and apparently homosexual behavior..."

St-Loup is certainly getting wound up by Rachel's antics but it would appear that she's being quite blatant about her flirting and it's not just in St-Loup's head. It's funny how the narrator can be so cool in analysing St-Loup's behaviour and yet seem oblivious to his own strange behaviour - but it's so like real life in that we can solve others' problems as easy as anything but our own....

Stephen wrote: "re the telephone, I'm highlighting the narrator's references to technology through the book. from the phone and automobile to the x-ray, they seem to reshape or reframe time or space, and they some..."

I find the references to phones, x-rays etc. a bit disconcerting sometimes because for me Proust often reads like a nineteenth century novel and I'm thinking of it in those terms. There's also the fact that the omniscient narrator comments on past events with the benefit of hindsight. I like the shifting of time-frames though as it keeps me on my toes.

Near the beginning of this week's reading the narrator mentions the sounds that some pigeons were making from the chimney and I realised that sounds are much more prominent in this volume that in previous volumes. The opening sentence is about 'twittering birds at daybreak', we had the noises from the military band, the noises coming from the fireplace and the effects of plugging your ears up. I wonder if it was at this point in time that Proust sound-proofed his room?

As a big Zola fan Rachel is making me think more and more of Nana.

I though the narrator (and therefore Proust) kept going on about how much Rachel would normally charge (20 francs) and how much St-Loup was paying her as his mistress. A good point but I thought he kept banging on about it for a couple of pages.

My favourite quote from this section was:

Alix bore the blow without flinching. A block of marble. Her gaze was piercing and blank, her nose nobly arched. But one cheek was flaking. A hint of strange green and pink vegetation was invading her chin. Another winter perhaps would lay her low.

This was from Mme Villeparisis' salon. This is again similar to the de Pelancey quote in the previous week's reading, in that the style is quite different than the vast bulk of the novel; short sentences are used as well as an almost surreal imagery.

It's amusing to see Legrandin turn up at the salon being obsequious to the aristocracy.

Jonathan wrote: "Near the beginning of this week's reading the narrator mentions the sounds that some pigeons were making from the chimney and I realised that sounds are much more prominent in this volume that in p..."

Smiling as I remember the variety of sounds in the novel.
The first sensation, on the first page, was the sound of a train whistle.

Anyway, after reading the novel "innocently," I delved into the biographies.
Thus, not spoiling anything, I remembered Bill Carter writing about a true episode in Marcel's life:

"To make matters worse, his sleep had recently been disturbed by strange noises coming from a wall in his room. He informed the servants, who came to listen and, hearing nothing, suggested that his imagination had tricked him. Finally a chimney-sweep was summoned, and he discovered an enormous pigeon that had come down the chimney and into the wall."

(Scroll to the last paragraph.)
Marcel Proust: A Life, with a New Preface by the Author
By William C. Carter
http://books.google.com/books?id=aYaT...

Thanks Marcelita. I didn't notice many sounds in the earlier volumes - they seemed to be more visual.

I'm planning on reading the Carter bio once I've finished ISOLT; it looks fascinating.

That's fascinating, I had no idea Proust sound-proofed his room!

Jonathan wrote: "Thanks Marcelita. I didn't notice many sounds in the earlier volumes - they seemed to be more visual.

I'm planning on reading the Carter bio once I've finished ISOLT; it looks fascinating."

It is such an exquisite sentence....taking you through the novel.

"I could hear the whistling of trains, which, now nearer and now further off, punctuating the distance like the note of a bird in a forest,

showed me in perspective the deserted countryside through which a traveller is hurrying towards the nearby station;

and the path he is taking will be engraved in his memory by the excitement induced by strange surroundings, by unaccustomed activities,

by the conversation he has had and the farewells exchanged beneath an unfamiliar lamp that still echo in his ears amid the silence of the night,

and by the happy prospect of being home again."
MP Overture

Renato wrote: "Wow at St-Loup beating up the guy who hit on him on the street. I know just moments before he slapped another man for an even more ridiculous reason, but still... and apparently homosexual behavior..."

Yes! I think that assault is totally related. Note that immediately afterward, Saint-Loup wants to arrive at Mme. Villeparisis's separately ... " so that he might appear to have only just arrived in Paris, instead of having spent half the day already with me."

People who are comfortable and confident in their sexuality do not freak out when it's questioned, as a general rule and in my experience.

The section before this regarding Saint-Loup's blind adoration of Rachel is telling as well. The narrator's judgment of it is interesting, because he's so clearly talking from behind the wool over his own eyes, himself. But this is an older narrator recollecting and retelling life, so it's completely fascinating to me and I can't wait to see where it goes.

Oh and what Jonathan is talking about above -- the skewering Rachel over her twenty francs -- I found that whole section hilarious and of course a bit juvenile! I think it smacks of jealousy and making himself feel better since Saint-Loup's angel is actually a common streetwalker, when he really wants to be the object of Saint-Loup's attention, whether he knows it at the time or not. And then I notice the wild swing toward joy when the narrator finds out Saint-Loup did in fact see him the day he left Doncieres.

Dwayne wrote: "Yes! I think that assault is totally related. Note that immediately afterward, Saint-Loup wants to arrive at Mme. Villeparisis's separately ... " so that he might appear to have only just arrived in Paris, instead of having spent half the day already with me.""

So do you think it was so she wouldn't know he spent time with the narrator? It's been some weeks since I've read that section, but I took it that he didn't want Mme. Villeparisis to know that he arrived in Paris and didn't immediately visit her, that he preferred to spend time with Rachel and the narrator instead.

Also, I forgot to mention Mme. de Villeparisis. In Vol. 2, at Balbec, I was under the impression that she was a respected woman in the society, and that by being around her, the narrator and his grandmother gained some respect in the eyes of the others. Now, he's telling us how she did not enjoy any great position in the social world. I was quite surprised with that.

Renato wrote: "Dwayne wrote: "Yes! I think that assault is totally related. Note that immediately afterward, Saint-Loup wants to arrive at Mme. Villeparisis's separately ... " so that he might appear to have only..."

I might have to get back to you on that -- I just read up to the point after the theater last night. I'm behind! But that was definitely my impression in the moment. It could always be both. And again, it's the narrator telling the story, and everything is so psychological in this novel, I question just about everything! Thanks for the reply!

I wonder if part of what Proust is doing with Mme Villeparisis is showing how her social position may be different when on holiday in Balbec and when she's in Paris. I thought that as the narrator got to know her in Balbec she was initially quite aloof but as he got to know her she came across as more and more Bohemian - which chimes more with her position in Paris.

For me, one of the best things about ISOLT is where we get to see characters from different vantage points in space and time; peoples' characters change over time and depend on the situation they find themselves in; to a large extent though it's all a bit of a facade.

Doesn't St. Loup seem to be in a similar situation as Swann?

Totally noticed that "similar situation as Swann" thing, Jonathan. He popped up in my mind as well, while reading about Rachel's cruelness and Saint-Loup's snowed-ness.

Dwayne wrote: "Totally noticed that "similar situation as Swann" thing, Jonathan. He popped up in my mind as well, while reading about Rachel's cruelness and Saint-Loup's snowed-ness."

The episode in the theatre where Rachel et al heckle the female singer was interesting, particularly the narrator's points about the natures of the bully and the victim. He says that

our pity for misfortune perhaps misses the point, since in our imagination we recreate an inflated idea of the pain which the sufferer is too busy combating to think of succumbing to self-pity...

which is probably true and I must admit I'd probably never considered before.

He goes on to state that 'unkind people imagine themselves to be inflicting pain on someone equally unkind.' Again, I'd never really thought of this before but I think Proust has a point. The bully doesn't even consider that the victim is different than them. I guess that I'd always assumed that the bully was always a sadist.

Jonathan wrote: "Dwayne wrote: "Totally noticed that "similar situation as Swann" thing, Jonathan. He popped up in my mind as well, while reading about Rachel's cruelness and Saint-Loup's snowed-ness."

The episode..."

Indeed! Again, the whole impossibility of ever truly knowing another person because we are so clouded by our own situations and perceptions, as are their behaviors. That's such a fascinating theme in this book for me. Makes you wonder what is real in the end?

Jonathan wrote: "Renato wrote: "I liked the bit where the narrator came back and saw his grandmother sitting there, before she noticed him, and felt he was watching his own absence:

Of myself - thanks to that priv..."

That phone call and the little mini-essay that went with it were a highlight for me. How the phone changes the nature of communication - how many times has new technology changed the nature of communications since Proust wrote those lines! What would he say of Instagram, Facebook, Smartphones, Facetime! And the hilarious likening of telephone operators with greek mythological figures! And finally the poignant foreshadowing of his Grandmother's death by the broken connection - the Eternal Separation!

It was a big highlight for me as well, Dave! So far, this book is becoming my favorite. So many highlights and amazing situations. I need more stars to rate it properly, haha

The more I learn about the narrator (I'm in vol 5 now), the more I doubt his initial story about Swann's love. And accepting that he's unreliable about others, it becomes clear that despite passages that seem brutally honest, he's can't be trusted about himself. This is not because he's different from the rest of us, or less trustworthy, but instead because he's a human being delving into memory.

Ah, an unreliable narrator - thanks for the heads up Stephen, something to watch for!