World, Writing, Wealth discussion
All Things Writing & Publishing
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Why your book?
I love this question! Well, for me, I didn't and still don't see my book out there so what I've written is unique. It's also quite specific which is very important for non-fiction, imo.
Well, this is a doozy of a question! Melikes!! XDHmm. I'm not sure I view it as competition at all, actually. I would be honored to have the same people who read my favorite authors to also read my work, ya know? Then again, my "schtick" is a bit unique too. Yeah, not totally sure.
With that being said, here's what I always tell the authors on my online fic site when they question themselves:
Trust yourself, trust your characters, and be true to both. (Errr, this only applies to fiction, eh?)
Obviously, we can't please everyone on the planet, but maybe pouring 100% of our genuine self into something and not succumbing to outside "pressure" is precisely what will set us apart?
Yeah, I dunno hahaha. Random brain vomit again *sigh*
Hugs,
Ann
Tough question to answer for a variety of reasons. Outside of wishing I had Grisham's or King's team of editors, I feel my second novel, American Flowers is as good as anything the big 5 are putting out. If I didn't, I wouldn't be doing this.
Okay guys - I would love for us to answer Nik's question a little more specifically. For example my book is a parenting guide that targets people who want to get their kids beyond please and thank you and on the road to true poise, confidence and sophistication. This is the book I had searched for in vain so I wrote it ha ha. My book is substantive but also warm and accessible. I found that many parenting books out there preached down to people or made them feel like they were doomed if they didn't adopt a certain parenting style. Pfffft! None of that in my book, thank you very much. I wanted parents to feel they had an ally. There are good manners and child psychdevelopment books galore on the market but I feel my book focuses on the aspects of social grace, integrity, personal responsibility and intellectual curiosity parents long to imbue their children with. Your turn!
Annie wrote: "I'm not sure I view it as competition at all, actually. I would be honored to have the same people who read my favorite authors to also read my work, ya know? ..."That would be ideal and it works with avid readers covering 50+ books a year, but stubborn statistics say an average American reader reads around 12 books a year. Most readers inevitably skip on most titles and pick only a few....
Michael wrote: "Tough question to answer for a variety of reasons. ..."I thought it might be, for despite the inherent modesty one needs to do the benchmarking, point out the specific strengths vis-a-vis the genre leaders and to convince a prospective reader
Tara wrote: "Okay guys - I would love for us to answer Nik's question a little more specifically. For example my book is a parenting guide that targets people who want to get their kids beyond please and thank ..."Convincing enough for me, Tara, well presented! -:)
*taps foot, glares at Nik*Oligarchs are not exempt. Sell me.
Nik wrote: "So, if you're in sci-fi for example, do you think your work is equal/superior to that of Isaac Asimov or Herbert Wells? Or to Grisham or Lee Child for thrillers?Why do you think a reader should pick yours and not theirs? Is it enough to have a good, well written story or you need something a little more unique than that? ..."
The thing about the explosion of ebooks is that it allows readers to fine-tune their tastes. You no longer have to be stuck with general sci-fi, you can read an endless stream of books that do nothing but describe military weapons and tactics, or you can read books that are endless info-dumps.
Read the reviews for Heinlein's Starship Troopers and you see the kind of division within the genre. The majority of the book covers the MC's training and very little of the actual war shown in the film. A lot of people love this aspect of the book. They love hearing about his trials and his personal growth. Then you have a lot of people who hate that aspect of the book and wanted two hundred pages of bug-killing action.
A few months ago I read and reviewed Amp Messenger by Stephen Arseneault. Again, the reviews were divided with people liking the goofy non-stop action, while others thought it was stupid that the MC always seemed to have tech on his ship that was better than what was commercially available and that he always got out of impossible situations with little trouble. As I said in my own review, it isn't a story that you're going to think deeply about, but one you read because you just want something that's fun.
While we are in a competition with other writers, on the other hand, we're distinguishing ourselves from each other to stand out. Just go into your grocery store and check out the variety on the shelves. Everyone bottles soda, but how many are selling grape or orange - Sprite and 7-Up are both citrus flavors, but each has a distinct taste. Lays and Pringles both offer the same product in principle - potato chips - but each has a distinct approach that appeals to different consumers.
As authors our ebooks are the same way. We write in the same genres as thousands of other authors, but each of those authors has their own flavors and styles that may or may not appeal to readers of their genre.
J.J.This reminds me of the new micro-genres introduced on the Audible website a few weeks ago. It fascinated me and seemed proof that niche writing markets are developing a life of their own. This benefits and suits the indie writer to a T and I find it really exciting.
Still...I think Nik wants us to brag about our books, for heaven's sake. C'mon guys - I'm looking for my next great read!!
@Miss Tara: I love selling, ma'am, but this is just not how I do it. Sorry...*pleads for an exemption**makes popcorn**takes front row seat*
I'll happily sit back and watch, though XD
Hugs,
Ann
Ha! Fair enough. I released Dione's War as a 300k standalone work so I could do what I wanted with the narrative. I knew I wanted with the first half being a slow build starting with the main character in a dull yet harsh life and exploring how she goes from miner's daughter to revolutionary. But since every book needs a strong hook, I set the first part in the past to show how her world came to be in its own bloody way. It opened with an approximately 45 page battle leading to the destruction of Earth and ended with maybe a 30 page struggle that sees the secondary character stranded to set up the main story.The first part is available on Smashwords, B&N, Apple, and Kobo as a free standalone preview ad is a huge action piece. But if you love worldbuilding, I devote an awful lot of the 300k words in the main volume to worldbuilding as the characters wander the settlements trying to find a new home and new allies. The action pieces are paced appropriately so that all that worldbuilding doesn't bore the reader to death, but it picks up and takes over in the back half of the epic.
I wrote the Freedom Reigns series before Dione's War as a response to the 'Murica tones that permeate American Sci-Fi (and I admit I was guilty of that with USS Krakowski). While it's set on a future version of the US, the main character is not "American" and works against the imperial attitudes that he thinks are wrecking the galaxy. The story is certainly a nod to foreign readers who might be offended by the "America First" attitudes, and I knew it could be a bit of a turn off to American readers. As someone who gave it 1 star said, the main character is "arrogant." My response was to say of course he was.
Over the course the series, he goes from being a prisoner of this system, to gaining his chance to implement his vision for how galactic affairs should be run. But while, I present the argument that the status quo is totally wrong, I also send the message that his position is equally as wrong when he makes the situation worse. The overall message is that neither side has the end-all solution for operating in the galaxy, but somewhere in the middle lies the answer that addresses the legitimate issues all sides have.
JJI'll be checking out your book. It reminds me an awful lot of Making Monsters by indie Joe Turk. I think you will really respond to a lot of the themes found in that book.
PS - 'Murica = rotfl
This is a funny topic! :-)If they want to read about mega-melt down from bureaucratic interference, they should read Isaac Asimov's Foundation.
But if they want to read about a ne'er-do-well bootlegger who stole McDonald's Golden Arches and brought them through the wormhole - and a bounty-hunting biker crashed into the Golden Arches - then they should read my SF humor, Biker Bounty Hunters of Galaxy 13! As far as I know, no one has written anything like that. :-)
@Miss ML: Yeeeeahhhhh! Now that's the way to sell, woman!!! Humble, cheeky, short and sweet!! Well done, ma'am!!Hugs,
Ann
P.S. - The alien's just the cherry on top ^_~
Fogged Up Fairy Tale. Have you ever wanted to read a book based on the title alone? FUFT for the win!
'Like' buttons would be good! Social networking really uses up writing time. Starting with dialogue can be effective. I'm thinking of starting out that way with a WIP.
This is an odd topic. I have four science-based books, and these essentially archive some of my work, and are quite different from anything else out there. For example, my "Planetary Formation and Biogenesis" argues that planets in our solar system all have compositional differences and that these will be general throughout other planetary systems, and it is the "earth - type" alone that is really set up for life.My fiction is slightly different. Of course I try to tell interesting stories, but in the background I also try in some to get some idea of scientific thinking across in easy steps, e.g. I had to try to get the concept of relativity explained to a highly educated and intelligent Roman soldier, which, of course means put the maths away. I also have explored various means of governance in some of them, and I don't think anybody else does this. So yes, I think my books are different from others, and in some ways this makes them a lot harder to sell. How do you describe it?
Tara wrote: "J.J.This reminds me of the new micro-genres introduced on the Audible website a few weeks ago. It fascinated me and seemed proof that niche writing markets are developing a life of their own. This..."
where are the micro-genres? you don't mean, for example, under Science Fiction > High tech?
My books are a family saga where history itself is as much a main character as the protagonists. The POV changes often between rich and poor, aristocrat and servant, and male and female for a diverse picture of life in 1915 America. I think this was an exciting time in history because of its advances in technology, among other things. The characters react to their first ride in an automobile, and their first time using a telephone. The human condition applies to all regardless of social class and historical era, so I believe that my characters can be readily identified with. This is the thrill of psychological fiction writing for me.
Nik wrote: " Is it enough to have a good, well written story or you need something a little more unique than that?"beyond a professional product as a whole that exceeds your target audience's expectations, the rest is marketing to that audience.
Ian noted that every piece of art is unique; i added a qualifier for slavish genre-clichéd imitations. otoh, it's difficult to be completely unique b/c in many ways we depend upon our predecessors. furthermore, being too unique would make it difficult to market it and gain acceptance in the some of the standard genres.
i won't go into the marketing topic as it isn't really the question on this thread, but one important factor that we tend to ignore b/c it's very difficult to predict is timing--which is related to Nik's thread on "opportunity" (https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...).
J.J. wrote: "The thing about the explosion of ebooks is that it allows readers to fine-tune their tastes."
this feature of distributor/publisher websites is an absolute boon to writers as well.
for the sake of discussion, i'll put out my unpublished novel's very, very rough concept-prototype that i haven't worked on since early march b/c i've switched to shorts.
in the context of this discussion--and in spite of its roughness--i'd be interested to hear what you all have to say about its genre fit and alleged "uniqueness".
All sound like very good books with a distinctive competitive edge and a very good premise
Alex G wrote: "for the sake of discussion, i'll put out a very, very rough prototype that i haven't worked on it since early march b/c i've switched to shorts...."Cool cast, promising conflict - I think you should continue, Alex
Tara wrote: "*taps foot, glares at Nik*Oligarchs are not exempt. Sell me."
Instead of selling, I'll probably put off some readers -:)
But truth be told I don't think my own writing is as good or better in a sense of eloquence and overall execution as that of Grisham or Clancy. I do hope I offer a rather rare scenery, realistic episodes, raw action and some over- the- top scenarios, which as a whole should appeal to hard-boiled thriller/historical fiction fans. Can the series become as popular as Harry Potter? Impossible, but the overall acceptance is better than I thought it would be.... Some Ukrainian rooted authors like Chuck Palahniuk or Orest Stelmach are doing not bad, so the hope is there -:)
For Spy vs Hacker, off the top, I'd say techno thriller. My question would be how and why do they meet? It looks like she has a sword. Is she a gamer and they meet in a game since he is a hacker? First impression!
M.L. wrote: "For Spy vs Hacker, off the top, I'd say techno thriller. My question would be how and why do they meet? It looks like she has a sword. Is she a gamer and they meet in a game since he is a hacker? ..."
thx for the feedback!
yes, it's a sword and yes they more or less meet in a game. (since in this thread, we're interested in debating how unique a work has to be, i'll clarify these points--although since it's a work in progress, i can't reveal too much. oops. maybe it's not such a good example to use after all. <:) )
yes, i'm planning on putting in in technothriller although it has a heavy near-future sci-fi element.
in light of this thread, how "unique" do books in these genres have to be to be successful? when does their uniqueness become a roadblock? are there certain tropes that have to be in place?
feel free to point out the failures of my example in these respects.
Tara wrote: " There are good manners and child psychdevelopment books galore on the market but I feel my book focuses on the aspects of social grace, integrity, personal responsibility and intellectual curiosity parents long to imbue their children with."i think that this is a complementary approach to the "parenting book" genre and in that way it extends that genre and creates its own niche. so, the key here it to piggyback off of the genre's core books.
Denise wrote: even though it's a women's fiction / contemporary romance novel, I threw in serious issues, adventure and humor. It's not a girl meets boy, girl falls in love with boy, girl leaves boy. It's a book about life, ups and downs, and second chances."so, i thought in the romance genre that an HEA ending is absolutely req'd? Or is contemporary romance different? but from your description, it would sound more like women's fiction, correct?
Because I think I've put a unique twist on the murder mystery genre by making my main character a superhero on top of her day job as a homicide cop. Also, racial and sexual diversity among my characters.
@Mr Alex: I totally dig the opening paragraph of your blurb. Has "oompf" for me (technical term, eh?)As for HEA endings...
No, they are not a requirement. They are, however, preferred by the majority of romance lovers. But I'm not personally a huge fan so the most my readers tend to get outta me is an HFN *laughs maniacally*
With that being said, I have definitely gotten some pushback/critic for it. I just don't care *glib smirk*
Hugs,
Ann
#Rebel #PossiblyGoingDownInFlames
Ian wrote: "Of course I try to tell interesting stories, but in the background I also try in some to get some idea of scientific thinking across in easy steps... in some ways this makes them a lot harder to sell. How do you describe it?"this is hard sci-fi. you don't want to sell it as teaching something though. i'd make your selling point the "interesting story" (the roman soldier learning about relativity w/o the math in order to get him onto the spaceship (or whatever you are trying to get him to do).
J.J. wrote: "HAs someone who gave it 1 star said, the main character is "arrogant." My response was to say of course he was."
but doesn't the reader have to sympathize w/the MC?
J.J. wrote: "I knew I wanted with the first half being a slow build starting with the main character in a dull yet harsh life and exploring how she goes from miner's daughter to revolutionary
that is very cool. that slow build-up seems to be in-line w/Wool and, to some degree, Old Man's War.
M.L. wrote: "then they should read my SF humor, Biker Bounty Hunters of Galaxy 13!
otoh, it seems to me that the sci-fi genre is fairly wide open.
*critique (Wow. Epic Fail.)@Mr JD: Melikey!!
I think the only thing I'd take out is the "Because I think" *shrugs*
Matthew CulbersonGood question Nik,
I think everyone believes they have written what other people want to read or we wouldn't be doing this. The question is, how many people want to read it?
Authors today are brands, so much so that they plop their name on books written by other people (I'm looking at you James Patterson) so it will sell. I'm not by no means knocking him, because he has created a brand because he has written a ton of books and obviously has a ravenous audience.
But for people like us who do not have a brand name, it comes down to the writing and whether or not anyone will get the chance to read it.
Unfortunately, I'd hate to say it, but it's simply lightning in a bottle luck as to whether you succeed. Obviously you need to do the work to have even a chance at success, and of course be able to write, but the ultimate determinant as to whether you truly make it or not is luck.
I mean, come on, the quality of writing with some books that become huge hits sometimes is nothing special (i.e Twilight, Fifty Shades of Crap, etc...etc) but they make it, because for that time and place they hit a nerve and become successful.
So what is it that I think will make people read my book? Hopefully I have created something unique, a slice of death novel that takes the reader on a journey like no other. I'm not trying to change anyone's life , but I simply want them to be entertained for the 8-10 hours they spend with my novel.
But ultimately, it will be luck that determines just how many people do get to spend that 8-10 hours with my book. And all I can do is better my odds by working hard and doing my best, knowing full well that I will ultimately be disappointed with the results.
And then I write another book, because that's what writers do. And maybe someday, I will catch that lightning in a bottle.
See you on the other side,
MC
Eight books with a ninth as a complete trilogy in one. Three Spy Thrillers one disaster, 2 in a space opera SF, a contemporary romance and one which I can't compartmentalise, its a slightly paranormal, memoir financial crime redemption thing.Note no name no spamming - its a discussion not an advert please fellow forum writers.
So micro-genres I welcome as a way of readers finding the niche they want - but the downside is they won't stumble upon something on the edges of their genre and wander off into new pastures.
Why my book - why not - fantastic value/ great story telling, marvelous characters - all I hope because that's down to the reader. I can try my best but not every story sits well with every reader. Some readers hate action, sex, violence, romance, child, YA, LGBT, science, horror, thrills or just fiction. Many like biographies or histories.
Me I like writing a variety of genres and reading a variety too.
I hope we stay on this side for a little longer-:)Haven't you just published your debut novel, Matthew?
That new on the market and such a clear disillusionment! I remember being much more naive a couple of years ago. I share a lot of your observations re 'brands', 'greatness' of some bestsellers and so on. My own advice to anyone - 'make money elsewhere and then enjoy being an author'.
Luck is an important factor, but to catch it you still need to do a lot to give it a chance: like come up with a pretty professional execution and then struggle for visibility or .... maybe do nothing, leaving it for a luck.
On the other hand, you see fellow indie authors succeeding right near you, like Evan or Annie for example, selling probably 10 -30 books a day. Keep going guys, I want to see bestsellers coming out from here!
Yeah, maybe it's not a living yet, but that's something sizable, so the chances are not as abysmal as lottery-:)
Hope you catch your lightning!
Wow, nice assortment of genres, Philip!I can be romantic, but I can't even imagine how to bridge from spy thriller mindset to romance... Well done
Nik wrote: "Wow, nice assortment of genres, Philip!I can be romantic, but I can't even imagine how to bridge from spy thriller mindset to romance... Well done"
Presuming I did it well!
As you said earlier I can make a living outside writing just wish I could inside writing. I write because I want to, have to almost. It is for my enjoyment and a few readers whi have been kind enough to ask me to write more
Nik wrote: "I hope we stay on this side for a little longer-:)Haven't you just published your debut novel, Matthew?
That new on the market and such a clear disillusionment! I remember being much more naive a ..."
I wouldn't call it disillusionment, Nik, and I am by no means a pessimist. Just being realistic, that's all. Heck, I feel I have a best seller in me. If not now, someday.
But in answering your question, I was just being honest. For every author that is selling 10-30 books a day, there are far more who are not.
Every author on here believes they can do it, as do I. But it is naive to believe that everyone who believes this will succeed. And your question was, why me? And there is not an author on here that won't have an answer for you. And there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's absolutely necessary to believe that.
My only point was, the love of writing is the only thing that will keep you writing, and it can't be the belief that you're going to sell tons of book that fuels the fires.
After Life is my forth novel, and I have gotten closer with each book to getting published the traditional way. It was only with this book that I decided to give it a try and publish it on my own. And I'm both excited about the possibilities and realistic.
Anyway, I won't go anymore. Thanks for the forum and I am glad to be a part of Goodreads and this community.
Have a great day!
MC
@Mr Nik: re "Luck is an important factor, but to catch it you still need to do a lot to give it a chance." Dang, rights! I 100% believe it in luck. I also 100% believe that we must create our own.
Ann's failed attempt at playwriting: 2 Aspiring Actors...
Dude 1: (sitting on couch) *sigh* Why doesn't Lady Luck come crashing through the ceiling and land on my lap?
Dude 2: (takes initiative, goes to casting calls, networks, etc.) Wow. I can't believe I met so-and-so today! This could be it!!
Dude 1: (still sitting on couch) *grumbles* Some people have all the luck...
Dude 1 refuses to recognize that Dude 2 probably had 100 doors slammed in his face before "accidently" meeting Lady Luck.
"Success (a.k.a. luck) is when opportunity meets preparation." ☚ Ziggy is da man!! Seriously, he was so effin' brilliant!!!
Hugs,
Ann
EDIT: I've been a stubborn butthead and not playing the "selling" game but since I'm opening my big mouth anyway, I might as well participate, eh? Hmm...
Say no to stereotypes. Say yes to a sexy a** hero on wheels. Buy my book.
That is all *glib smirk*
Ziggy stardust?Ann: you talk the talk & walk the walk & followed ziggy's advice. from what you've shared, you've prepared and worked hard before you listed your 1st book on Amazon. That is a model to follow.
@Mr Alex: Umm. Zig Ziglar...? Or Ziggy Stardust. Whatever makes you smile works for me ^_~I still have so, so, sooo much left to learn! But thank you, regardless!! You're too sweet!!
Hugs,
Ann
Matthew wrote: "I wouldn't call it disillusionment, Nik, and I am by no means a pessimist. Just being realistic, that's all. Heck, I feel I have a best seller in me. If not now, someday. But in answering your question, I was just being honest. For every author that is selling 10-30 books a day, there are far more who are not."
I meant nothing negative whatsoever about your attitude. More so, my own is pretty close to what you've written. It's just seeing GR mentioning After Life released in July 2016, I was genuinely surprised you'd already arrived to these conclusions, for it took me time to realize a little (still lots to learn) how the things worked. But then again, I might be just a slow turtle -:)
Annie wrote: "Ann's failed attempt at playwriting: 2 Aspiring Actors..."Is this what's called a flash fic?
Nice play!
I'd cast Danny Trejo for Dude 2, but that's maybe because I'd just cast him anywhere -:)
Alex G wrote: "but doesn't the reader have to sympathize w/the MC? ..."I think of him as more a mirror to society. Everyone thinks they have a solution to the ills of society, but we tend to argue our cases as if ours is the only correct position. A lot of internet arguments, a lot of political arguments, even many of the discussions of race in this country don't involve actual discussion - it's just people that want to yell and argue and don't want to consider other sides of the issues and work for a solution that addresses everyone's concerns.
Remy Duval is thrown into Earth's off-world activities and faces a program that is wrong, sadistic, evil. Free from the prying eyes of the rest of the world, the spacefaring nations are engaging in activities and practices that would never fly back home. His position is correct to a large degree, but he goes about protesting what he sees as if he's waging an internet fight. He won't consider some of the very real and very dangerous issues those nations are up against. He is somewhat off-putting because at his core, he represents us. But his personal arc over the series covers his journey as he is forced to accept the other views. He's forced to abandon the worst of who he is while somehow holding onto his moral center.
@Mr Nik: You may want to take a look-see around your domain, good sir. Miss Tara and I collaborated to write yet another enthralling flash fic last night. I believe you were cast as yourself, although Trejo would work too >_<Hugs from the queen pulling random little stories outta her butt,
Ann
World, Writing, Wealth
Books mentioned in this topic
Wool (other topics)Old Man's War (other topics)
I don't think there is any merit to look at the middle ground; let's compare with what's deemed best.
So, if you're in sci-fi for example, do you think your work is equal/superior to that of Isaac Asimov or Herbert Wells? Or to Grisham or Lee Child for thrillers?
Why do you think a reader should pick yours and not theirs? Is it enough to have a good, well written story or you need something a little more unique than that?