Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 discussion

Use this topic thread for all Sodom and Gomorrah discussions through page 641 / location 37160.

"I do not wish to leave the reader under the impression that Morel was entirely wicked. He was, rather, a mass of contradictions, capable on certain days of genuine kindness."

It will be interesting to see one of those days...so far he's been a bit of a nasty piece of work.

Seeing an aeroplane must have been quite an event then and brings the narrator to tears when he's out riding a horse in a valley. It's portrayed on www.davidwesleyrichardson.com which was (of course) brought to our attention by Marcelita.

Whilst the narrator is at Morel's, trying to entice him to go back to see Charlus, he is being nosey and looks at some of the books that Charlus has given to Morel and the inscriptions inside. If, like me, you're not fluent in French and Latin then you'll be trying to determine what the translations are. My Vintage edition isn't very helpful, but the Penguin edition has them all in the notes. So I've included them below which others may find useful:

Spes mea - My hope
Exspectata non eludet - He will not disappoint
J'attendrai - I shall wait
Mesmes plaisirs du mestre - The same pleasures as the master
Sustentant lilia turres - The towers support the lillies
Manet ultima caelo - The end belongs to Heaven
Non mortale quod opto - I have the ambition of an immortal
Atavis et armis - By ancestors and by arms
Tantus ab uno splendor - Such brilliance coming from one person

Jonathan wrote: "Whilst the narrator is at Morel's, trying to entice him to go back to see Charlus, he is being nosey and looks at some of the books that Charlus has given to Morel and the inscriptions inside. If, ..."

Very interesting and very telling. I wonder if Morel understood them? Thanks Jonathan!

As I had friends over this weekend, I couldn't read Proust - that's not to say he wasn't present. We watched some films and, coincidentally, Proust was mentioned in not one, but two of them: Howard Hawks's The Big Sleep and Ettore Scola's La Terrazza.

Back to reading Proust though!

Renato wrote: "As I had friends over this weekend, I couldn't read Proust - that's not to say he wasn't present. We watched some films and, coincidentally, Proust was mentioned in not one, but two of them: Howard..."

Hope you had a good weekend Renato.

Talking of films, I got a copy of Time Regained, but will, of course, wait until I've finished the reading before watching it...John Malkovich as Charlus!!

For the narrator jealousy AND love seem inseparable, or is he confusing jealousy for love? Take this revelation when they're on the train:

For though I no longer felt any jealousy and scarcely any love for her, and never thought about what she might be doing on the days when I did not see her, on the other hand, when I was there, a mere partition which might at a pinch be concealing a betrayal was intolerable to me...

We've witnessed nothing so far to justify the narrator's paranoia, but I wonder....although his reaction is over the top, I'm guessing that many of his suspicions will be well-founded.

Jonathan wrote: "Renato wrote: "As I had friends over this weekend, I couldn't read Proust - that's not to say he wasn't present. We watched some films and, coincidentally, Proust was mentioned in not one, but two ..."

OMG... I adore John Malkovich! I had no idea there was a movie of Time Regained, much less that JM was in it! That's now on my must-see list.

"There was a time when my ancestors were proud of the title of chamberlain or butler to the King," said the Baron. "There was also a time," replied Morel haughtily, "when my ancestors cut off your ancestors' heads."

Ho! Ho! Sometimes I like you Morel.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "OMG... I adore John Malkovich! I had no idea there was a movie of Time Regained, much less that JM was in it! That's now on my must-see list. ..."

...and Emmanuelle Béart as Gilberte. I've had a sneak preview and it looks good, but I didn't want to watch too much yet. There is also Swann in Love but it's a bit more difficult to get.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Renato wrote: "As I had friends over this weekend, I couldn't read Proust - that's not to say he wasn't present. We watched some films and, coincidentally, Proust was mentioned in ..."

Sunny~I posted a video clip in the last week of Time Regained.
John Malkovich as the Baron de Charlus...some of my favorite scenes.

I simply can't believe Charlus's actions to get Morel to go back and be with him on that evening, right at the end of this week's section. He conjured a duel out of nowhere - OMG! That is so funny, crazy, obsessive and scary, all of the same time.

And he didn't seem to mind - or worry - about involving the narrator in this affair at all... sometimes Charlus seems to be so sure that he isn't suspected of inversion...

Jonathan wrote: "Seeing an aeroplane must have been quite an event then and brings the narrator to tears when he's out riding a horse in a valley. It's portrayed on www.davidwesleyrichardson.com which was (of cours..."

Thanks for this image!

A funny thing happened to me while I was reading the part with the aeroplane feeling very sleepy.

A sign that makes me sure - and happy, since normally I have some trouble falling asleep - that I'm almost entering that "second apartment", is when my mind starts wandering off but I'm still able to discern that I'm imagining out of the ordinary things.

“Suddenly, my horse gave a start; he had heard a strange sound; it was all I could do to hold him and remain in the saddle, then I raised in the direction from which the sound seemed to come my eyes filled with tears and saw, not two hundred feet above my head, against the sun, between two great wings of flashing metal which were carrying him on, a creature whose barely visible face appeared to me to resemble that of a man. I was as deeply moved as a Greek upon seeing for the first time a demigod.”

When I read the quote above, it came to my head "wait, what? the narrator is now seeing mythological creatures? Is he dreaming? Am I dreaming?" and when, two seconds later, he revealed it was an aeroplane, I knew that I was sleepy, but not that much!

Also, is this the first time the narrator has mentioned he rides horses?

Jonathan wrote: "...and Emmanuelle Béart as Gilberte. I've had a sneak preview and it looks good, but I didn't want to watch too much yet. There is also Swann in Love but it's a bit more difficult to get."

Since you mentioned Emmanuelle Béart I remembered that I haven't thanked you yet for mentioning Jean de Florette and Manon des Sources. I absolutely loved both films and hope to read the books one day!

It’s interesting how Morel is portrayed by wanting to be known for his music instead of his social class or what his father did for a living. It seems back then, the focus was so much about ancestors and on who people were - that is, came from - as means to determine whether they were worthy, important or not. Nowadays it seems the focus is almost completely at the we do - as in, our professions, our talents, our achievements - instead of our progeny.

Thinking of this, I almost sympathize with Morel. I mean, living in the days we do, we can’t help but to cheer for him to be successful for his own merits, but when he seems to be ashamed of his father, it makes me roll my eyes at him. But what if this was indeed necessary back then? Would he have fair chances had he been opened about his father, for example? If his chances were to be tarnished because of that, can we blame him for acting that way?

Renato wrote: "I simply can't believe Charlus's actions to get Morel to go back and be with him on that evening, right at the end of this week's section. He conjured a duel out of nowhere - OMG! That is so funny,..."

Isn't this such an indelible passage?
I felt the novel switching to 78 RPM from 33 (an ancient time-form via the record player). I felt the speed of the handwriting and the emotional urgency...
Also, how the Baron knew exactly how to manipulate Morel, just when we (and Morel) had believed the opposite!

Renato wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Seeing an aeroplane must have been quite an event then and brings the narrator to tears when he's out riding a horse in a valley. It's portrayed on www.davidwesleyrichardson.com wh..."

Renato wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Seeing an aeroplane must have been quite an event then and brings the narrator to tears when he's out riding a horse in a valley. It's portrayed on www.davidwesleyrichardson.com wh..."

At the Boston Athenaeum's Proust group, James Connelly pointed out
that a similar incident happened to a friend of Proust's in 1908, Marcel Plantvignes.

Connelly also shared that Plantevigne wrote about the incident.
These are Plantevigne's words as quoted by Carter:

"Tout à coup un avion surgi de l'horizon des arbres, volant très bas .
. . fonçait vers nous avec un bruit d'enfer . . . Ma jument [mare]
prise de terreur . . . sursauta sur ses jambes . . . puis faisant un
grand bond en avant, partit à travers champs, au triple galop . . ."

Proust asked his friend if he could use the incident and received permission.

"The Proustian Quest"
edited by William Carter, Jeffrey Lange (page 178)

SPOILERS! Don't read this page, unless you had finished the book.
http://books.google.com/books?id=XSnd...

"Plantevignes begins by describing his horseback rides at Cabourg and Houlgate; Proust, so far as Plantevignes knew, had never mounted a horse. Plantevignes believes that the many rides he took with Proust's friend the vicomte d' Alton, which the former either witnessed or had described to him by his friends, were the source for the equestrian rides of Albertine and Andree." Carter (page 178)

Marcelita wrote: "Isn't this such an indelible passage?
I felt the novel switching to 78 RPM from 33 (an ancient time-form via the record player). I felt the speed of the handwriting and the emotional urgency...
Also, how the Baron knew exactly how to manipulate Morel, just when we (and Morel) had believed the opposite! "

Marcelita, it was so good!

What about this?

“And at the mere thought of such a thing, M. de Charlus, unable to contain himself for joy, began to make passes in the air which recalled Molière, made us take the precaution of drawing our glasses closer, and fear that, when the swords crossed, the combatants, doctor and seconds would at once be wounded.”

Too funny!! It reminded me of Don Quixote, imagining enemies and fighting them! Although, of course, their motivations couldn't be farther apart.

Renato wrote: "Marcelita wrote: "Isn't this such an indelible passage?
I felt the novel switching to 78 RPM from 33 (an ancient time-form via the record player). I felt the speed of the handwriting and the emoti..."

Knowing how much you enjoy the humor in Proust, I must forward this article that I came across in my travels.
You will need to translate it; it is just a morsel of the zillions of articles that have been written about Proust.

"Laughter in Proust's work" by F. C. Green
(Specifications of the International Association of French Studies 1960 Volume 12 Number 12 pp. 243-257)

In French: http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/...
Or (copy and translate in sections)
http://www.persee.fr/articleAsPDF/cai...

From page 13 (Google translate)
"Here, the source of laughter is the exaggeration that characterizes the words, gestures and views of this great enfant terrible. It is both Alceste and - it's Proust tells us - Don Quixote in his life as he fought against so many mills." FC Green



Conference: Troisième Journée. Marcel Proust
http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/...

Thanks, Marcelita!

What a great article! It made me think how sometimes I only catch the more obvious humor, without realizing that the narrator was also poking fun at Brichot's pedantry or M. de Norpois manners. Very interesting read!

Renato wrote: "Since you mentioned Emmanuelle Béart I remembered that I haven't thanked you yet for mentioning Jean de Florette and Manon des Sources. I absolutely loved both films and hope to read the books one day! ..."

I'm glad you liked them Renato; they're wonderful films. I've got a copy of the book here and I've been meaning to read it for ages - I will soon!

Renato wrote: "It’s interesting how Morel is portrayed by wanting to be known for his music instead of his social class or what his father did for a living. It seems back then, the focus was so much about ancesto..."

I think even then things were changing, the aristocracy's days of dominance were at an end though it took the World Wars to really change things, at least this was the case in the UK.

Remember that Charlus, the Guermantes etc. are a privileged set who are living in their own little bubble, contemptuous of all those people who have to work for a living. That's why I have a bit of a soft spot for people like Brichot - and Morel; they're looked down on by the aristocracy (and the wannabe-aristocracy such as the Verdurins) as pedants, bores, little-nothings, which is all sort-of true in a way, but what is so great about THEM?

I find it interesting comparing Proust with Zola as they're 'almost' the same period. As Zola deals mostly with the middle-class and working-class in a more down-to-earth manner I can relate to his novels more readily than to Proust's. It is in fact this concentration on privilege, blood-lines, duc-this & duchess-that that is sometimes a bit of a struggle. Though, of course, there's a positive, in that Proust does such a good job of showing this 'unknown' world to us plebs - warts and all.

Renato wrote: "Also, is this the first time the narrator has mentioned he rides horses? "

I know, I was surprised as well. You'd think that that was a bit too dangerous for our narrator.

Jonathan wrote: "Remember that Charlus, the Guermantes etc. are a privileged set who are living in their own little bubble, contemptuous of all those people who have to work for a living. That's why I have a bit of a soft spot for people like Brichot - and Morel; they're looked down on by the aristocracy (and the wannabe-aristocracy such as the Verdurins) as pedants, bores, little-nothings, which is all sort-of true in a way, but what is so great about THEM?"

That's a really good point to keep in mind. I wonder why Proust - possessing such a keen eye for observing and analyzing characters and personalities - finds the aristocracy so interesting. Or is it supposed to be a criticism on them?

I believe the cast of characters reflects society as Proust knew it. He satirizes everyone. While reading I developed some ideas about social commentary but on reflection believe those ideas were misguided. Some characters apparently satirize Proust's prejudice against whole professions - Brichot (Academic), Cottard (Medicine, odd since Proust's father and brother were Drs.), Norpois (Diplomat). Others include 1) aristocrats 2) servants 3) jews 4) gay/lesbian 5) artists 6) "middle class" 7) Narrator's family. Obviously some fit more than one category. All these reflect a mix which Proust portrays as reflecting french society 1890-1920. Change over time among characters rather than relative goodness is more what the focus is I believe.

Dave wrote: "Change over time among characters rather than relative goodness is more what the focus is I believe."

That's very interesting, Dave. Thanks!

Just finished this week's reading...

Is this the SAME de Charlus that's been in the previous volumes? I mean, I know that it is, but he came across so haughty and rude and mean when he first met the narrator. Even when he first met the Verdurins, he was walking around with airs. But, now he's practically desperate for Morel to pay him attention, crying because he was going to have to spend the evening alone, etc.

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Is this the SAME de Charlus that's been in the previous volumes? I mean, I know that it is, but he came across so haughty and rude and mean when he first met ..."

He's certainly very volatile; we've seen him haughty and rude, obsequious when he first arrived at the Verdurins', all lovey-dovey with Morel. But he's very manipulative and has other ways of getting what he wants...read on...

I think that comes to show how a fully realized character Charlus is!