Reading Proust's In Search of Lost Time in 2014 discussion

Use this topic thread for all Time Regained discussions through location 54184.

Stop at paragraph beginning "To return to the politician, in spite of his change of physical substance, just as profound as the transformation of the moral ideas which his name now connoted to the public,"

Hmmmmm. Seems Proust didn't want us putting too much stock in guessing who he was writing about...

"That is one of the reasons why studies in which an attempt is made to guess whom an author has been writing about, are fatuous."

I'm amazed at how much there is in this book. I keep reading and re-reading sections and it was impossible to stop in last week's schedule.

I feel these are the most intense couple of weeks. I really love to witness the exact moment where the narrator finally decides - not only that, but also how - to write his book.

This could surely be a preface for the entire work, but I really like how he put it in the end.

I'm curious as to what will happen next. If he'll indeed start working on his novel, if he'll end up dying instead... if it's a cyclical thing and goes back to Swann's Way... if what we've been reading is simply a demonstration what could have been had he written his book...

The moment where he decided how he would write his novel and how everything started with Swann gave me chills to read! It's a long quote, but worth to be put here, for sure:

"In short, if I reflected, the matter of my experience came to me from Swann, not simply through what concerned himself and Gilberte. It was he who, ever since the Combray days, had given me the desire to go to Balbec, where, but for him, my parents would never have had the notion of sending me and but for which I should never have known Albertine. True, I associated certain things with her face as I saw her first, gazing towards the sea. In one sense I was right in associating them with her for if I had not walked by the sea that day, if I had not known her, all those ideas would not have developed (unless, at least, they had been developed by another). I was wrong again because that inspiring pleasure we like to identify retrospectively with the beautiful countenance of a woman, comes from our senses and, in any case, it was quite certain that Albertine, the then Albertine, would not have understood the pages I should write. But it was just on that account, (and that is a warning not to live in too intellectual an atmosphere) because she was so different from me that she had made me productive through suffering, and, at first, even through the simple effort required to imagine that which differs from oneself. Had she been able to understand these pages, she would have been unable to inspire them. But without Swann I should not even have known the Guermantes, since my grandmother would not have rediscovered Mme de Villeparisis, I should not have made the acquaintance of Saint-Loup and of M. de Charlus which in turn caused me to know the Duchesse de Guermantes and, through her, her cousin, so that my very presence at this moment at the Prince de Guermantes' from which suddenly sprang the idea of my work (thus
making me owe Swann not only the matter but the decision) also came to me from Swann, a rather flimsy pedestal to support the whole extension of my life. (In that sense, this Guermantes side derived from Swann's side.)"

Another aspect that was pure genius to me was the party, after many years, in which he again saw everyone - we finally know why the narrator was sent to the sanatorium: not only it helped the time go by as a narrative device, but it also kept him from meeting all of those people. Had he seen them frequently, he wouldn't have been so shocked at how everyone had changed so much, and he probably would be more aware than he was also getting old.

To describe everyone's looks as if it was a costume party was also really great. In the beginning I did think everyone was wearing costumes - as there was a fantasy party back in Vol. 3! But no, it was just that time had passed.

Renato wrote: "I'm amazed at how much there is in this book. I keep reading and re-reading sections and it was impossible to stop in last week's schedule.

I feel these are the most intense couple of weeks. I rea..."

It is very fun to see your enthusiasm in your comments as you read these pages Renato. It reminds me of myself!

Renato quoted: "True, I associated certain things with her face as I saw her first, gazing towards the sea. In one sense I was right in associating them with her for if I had not walked by the sea that day, if I had not known her, all those ideas would not have developed (unless, at least, they had been developed by another)" Places like this last parenthetical quote have me chasing my tail about whether Proust is referring to himself. I've changed my opinion about whether Proust inserted himself as author. I am certainly not sure. But I have discounted the outside reading that insisted that he had not.

Renato wrote: "The moment where he decided how he would write his novel and how everything started with Swann gave me chills to read! It's a long quote, but worth to be put here, for sure:


"In short, if I ref..."

Of the long passage you quote, it is what is said about Albertine that fascinates me. This passage reflects a mature understanding of the role Albertine played in his life. "it was quite certain that Albertine, the then Albertine, would not have understood the pages I should write. But it was just on that account, (and that is a warning not to live in too intellectual an atmosphere) because she was so different from me that she had made me productive through suffering, and, at first, even through the simple effort required to imagine that which differs from oneself. Had she been able to understand these pages, she would have been unable to inspire them."

Dave wrote: "It is very fun to see your enthusiasm in your comments as you read these pages Renato. It reminds me of myself!"

Haha, yes, I'm really enthusiastic about it!! It's just too good!

Dave wrote: "Places like this last parenthetical quote have me chasing my tail about whether Proust is referring to himself. I've changed my opinion about whether Proust inserted himself as author. I am certainly not sure. But I have discounted the outside reading that insisted that he had not."

We've discussed this before, and I told you how there are parts that are really hard to agree that it is not Proust himself speaking to the reader... but if other who have been reading this for longer insist it's not, I tend to agree... I'll wait though till I finish the novel to see if I can add something about this...

Dave wrote: "Of the long passage you quote, it is what is said about Albertine that fascinates me. This passage reflects a mature understanding of the role Albertine played in his life."

Yes, I'm also fascinated about that part and I had to include it in my quote. Very interesting indeed that he understand her role in his life.

But I've always wondered why Swann was such a protagonist in the beginning... I merely figured it was because Swann got the narrator interested in art, but now I see it goes much further than that!

Concerning Swann, I think you will have a better idea of his role in the Narrator's life and in the book at the end. But for me, the end of the book is where the questions begin, not where the questions are answered. As I've done outside reading and rereading, I've formed opinions. But as I mentioned above, some of my opinions have changed and I continue to have uncertainty on a number of questions. I've come to see my uncertainty as one of the strengths of the book - again, the uncertainty to know for sure.

I guess it is, Dave. That's what prompts us to a re-read!

Dave wrote: "Concerning Swann, I think you will have a better idea of his role in the Narrator's life and in the book at the end."

Why am I not surprised of that? More things to come, that's great!!

Sunny in Wonderland wrote: "Hmmmmm. Seems Proust didn't want us putting too much stock in guessing who he was writing about...

"That is one of the reasons why studies in which an attempt is made to guess whom an author has ..."

It doesn't stop us though. :-)

Renato wrote: "The moment where he decided how he would write his novel and how everything started with Swann gave me chills to read! It's a long quote, but worth to be put here, for sure:
"In short, if I ref..."

Yes, this whole section is great. I've got up to the point where the butler has come in so that the narrator can join the party.

As I also like quotes, here's a couple of my faves:

In reality each reader, when he is reading, is uniquely reading himself. The writer's work is only a kind of optical instrument which he offers the reader to enable him to discern what without this book he might not perhaps have seen in himself.

Because happiness alone is good for the body; whereas sorrow develops the strength of the mind.

A writer must not take offence when inverts give his heroines masculine faces.

Ok, that's enough for now...

I'm intrigued by this bit when he's talking about how his grandmother was unhappy with the narrator's unproductive life and about how the characters in his life had found their way in one form into his book when we suddenly get this part:

That girl with the very deep-set eyes and the drawling voice, is she here? And if she really does repose here, then do we any longer know in what part, or how to find her underneath the flowers?

I don't suppose we'll know whom he's talking about but my first thought was that it was the girl with piercing eyes who stared at Albertine when they were in Balbec.

Jonathan wrote: "Renato wrote: "The moment where he decided how he would write his novel and how everything started with Swann gave me chills to read! It's a long quote, but worth to be put here, for sure:
"In sh..."

I am very interested in these passages about the reader in the library. There is another sentence or two along the same lines. I find them very significant.

Jonathan wrote: "I'm intrigued by this bit when he's talking about how his grandmother was unhappy with the narrator's unproductive life and about how the characters in his life had found their way in one form into..."

I love a good sleuth so I electronically searched the MKE Version (only one I have electronically in one book) for the word "drawling". There were four occurrences found included the one you cited Jonathan. The second occurrence was Swann voice and the third was a man but I didn't look to see who. The first, in Balbec I was Albertine herself:

"In speaking, Albertine kept her head motionless and her nostrils pinched, and scarcely moved her lips. The result of this was a drawling, nasal sound, into the composition of which there entered perhaps a provincial heredity, a juvenile affectation of British phlegm,"

Then I searched for "deep-set" and found only two occurrences (including yours) the first was a detailed description of a female statue by the young Marcel at Combray. This description is very latently sexual. My guess is Proust linked Albertine's appearance to this statue of Marcel's youth but of course the statue would have no voice. Possibly an editorial slip that an intention to describe Albertine as having derp-set eyes never was written in. or perhaps there is one using other words in another translation (or the original French). Proust could have used electronic word search capabilities to keep track of the details.

I went back to look at that passage to see if Albertine "fit" the text. I think so but that part seems really complex! The book becomes a reality of its own and the readers become the Narrator's rivals who "profane" his love (for Gilberte, the Duchess, and Albertine) by thinking of the applicability of his love to that of women in their own lives! Anyway, grandmother and Albertine are repeatedly named in the section and all other character are consigned to obscurity so that's why I think Albertine fits.

Good sleuthing Dave. I guess it must refer to Albertine as you say, unless it is a real non sequitur.

Dave wrote: "Then I searched for "deep-set" and found only two occurrences (including yours) the first was a detailed description of a female statue by the young Marcel at Combray. This description is very latently sexual. .."

Hi Dave. I'm now near the end of Vol.6 and, given the quote above, got a jolt when I read this: (view spoiler)[

Yet here was Mlle de Saint-Loup, in front of me. She had deep-set, piercing eyes...

(hide spoiler)]

Interesting Jonathan. Which translation are you reading? Does she have a drawling voice? My MKE search did not pick up this instance. Its worth considering that the quote you originally quoted refers to MLLE Saint-Loup.

Dave wrote: "Interesting Jonathan. Which translation are you reading? Does she have a drawling voice? My MKE search did not pick up this instance. Its worth considering that the quote you originally quoted refe..."

It's the Penguin version but I've checked the MKE version that has the same wording: 'She had deep-set piercing eyes...' No mention of her voice though.

This is why we read Proust...the layers, which we are, at first, totally ignorant (unless you are as well read as Proust). ;)

"That girl with the very deep-set eyes and the drawling voice, is she here?" MP

From "Proust Among the Stars" by Malcolm Bowie:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Z9Kq...

And, I was a champion of Uncle Adolphe, who had such faith in the narrator...and was heartbroken when the family schism occurred.
"'Who knows? he may turn out a little Victor Hugo?'" MP

Malcolm Bowie mentions Edmund Wilson's essay on Proust. You can read (and re-read) it here-page 130: http://archive.org/stream/axelscastle... )