Reading the Chunksters discussion

Posts on Part IV

This book is going to go down as a modern day "Of Human Bondage!!" I just finished this section today and I truly have no words...At least any to convey in a half way decent manner.

I don't think I've ever found myself wanting to have friends around to discuss and help purge what has transpired for these characters in "A Little Life."

Ami I just love that you made that connection!! Jude is a modern day and less selfish Philip in some ways, and I think still a better person all around. Still some strong parallels with the physical limitations and stunted emotional childhood.

And no you cannot read this book alone! I had to walk away from it a few times!

Dianne wrote: "Ami I just love that you made that connection!! Jude is a modern day and less selfish Philip in some ways, but I think still a better person all around.

And no you cannot read this book alone! I ..."

What a great endeavor that would have been to read them both in one of those dual themed projects this group has underway? I agree with the selfish nature both Jude/Philip exude in varying degrees and how Jude may be a "better person all around."

It's too much. The publishers should have told Yanagihara to have a warning label on the jacket stating the reader, "should wear suitable armor protecting oneself from any long-term effects felt by the subject matter in this novel..." If there is such a thing? LOL! It's not even the gratuitous scenes I'm reeling from; it's the habitual abuse Jude endures at the hands of others, the self inflicted abuse he bears by his own hands, and the residual effects he suffers from both. I am overcome with a plethora of emotions where they seem to be having a mind of their own, colluding with one another, resulting in a dulling of my senses... If that makes any sense? I find it troubling as well that I've had this response because it can't possibly scratch the surface of the emotions felt by those who have actually walked in Jude's shoes living through his nightmare or worse.

To each their own, but Brother Luke and Caleb are disgusting human beings...They are the epitome of cowards for preying on Jude; somebody who is vulnerable, physically weak, and someone longing to feel safe. I could feel my jaw tensing as I read the interaction between Harold and Caleb at the restaurant, I felt the anger of Harold and Andy as they both saw the carnage left by Caleb of an unidentifiable Jude; but what I find most unbearable to read about is the "helplessness" experienced by those who don't know how to best help Jude. From his friends, to his father, and doctor, all of these people know or have an idea Jude is in trouble; however, nobody is actually doing the right thing for him. Instead, they keep his secrets and essentially allow Jude to continue on his path to self-destruction. No one person is going to be able to help Jude solve his problems, and he has to want the help, there's no right answer...But giving Jude his space and trusting him to make safe decisions doesn't seem to be working. It's similar to the law case discussed in a previous section where, Jude is talking about right and wrong vs fair and unfair...Jude's situation too applies here.

Oh my gosh. I wanted to throw up After the first chapter. It was just too much. I wish I read Human Bondage but can't make the connections right now.

This is the second time that there's been a chapter from Harold. It's interesting that his are the only ones in first person I believe. He seems much more easier to relate to than Jude and if those chapters were in first person it would be too much. Harold's love for Jude is clearly so strong that it's a welcome reprieve from the monstrosities that continue to keep happening to Jude.

I wonder if it has to do with being raised in a monastery as well. Jude is so obsessed with being clean and cutting/hurting himself to get away from the filth. It's like he's obsessed with sin and cleaning rituals. Also seems a touch of OCD - he has to be in control. It's terrible for him to keep going but it's one of the only things he can control about his body.

Also interesting is how Brother Luke also said he lost a son. It seems to almost parallel Harold's story. I'm surprised that Jude was ever able to trust Harold after that connection but it seems he is still unable to see just how truly awful Brother Luke and Caleb were.

I agree a warning would be nice. These chapters were soooo tough to get through.

Catherine wrote: "Oh my gosh. I wanted to throw up After the first chapter. It was just too much. I wish I read Human Bondage but can't make the connections right now.

This is the second time that there's been a c..."

I wish I read Human Bondage but can't make the connections right now.
Well, if you plan on reading it any time soon, I would give yourself some major time between the end of this novel and beginning "OHB." LOL! Yes, they both take a real toll on the mind and soul..."OHG" is beautifully written.

It's interesting that his are the only ones in first person I believe. He seems much more easier to relate to than Jude and if those chapters were in first person it would be too much.
I didn't notice this, but I'll bet he's written in the first person for that very reason you've stated...To make Harold seem more relatable.

I wonder if it has to do with being raised in a monastery as well. Jude is so obsessed with being clean and cutting/hurting himself to get away from the filth. It's like he's obsessed with sin and cleaning rituals.
I wouldn't doubt if he had a religious experience living with the brothers that carried over into the present, but I am of the belief the sexual abuse he endured because of them and everybody else had a greater impact on his psyche...They would sexually accost him and then call him a dirty whore for partaking. What would that do to a person for the rest of his life if that's the only experience one's had regarding sex? He essentially exchanges one form of pain (anguish from his past) for another (inflicting physical pain on himself) to keep the thoughts of his past at bay, which can only last for so long until the hyenas come for him again. He obsessively bakes, cleans, cuts and fails to get proper sleep, all to keep his mind from reverting to what once was. He has to be in control of his life now, it's all he has to call his own because when it was in the hands of those, who I would speculate should have had his better interests in mind, did him a great disservice instead...Over and over again, he finds himself in the company of men who hurt him. See, I didn't see him "obsessed with sin" per se, but very much a prisoner to the belief he is not worthy, disgusting, and filthy...He has absolutely no self worth.

Also interesting is how Brother Luke also said he lost a son. It seems to almost parallel Harold's story.
Hmmm. I thought it too, but really saw the two as an antitheses to one another. Brother Luke should have been like Harold, if not more so because he was "supposedly" a man of the cloth if you can even call him that.

I'm surprised that Jude was ever able to trust Harold after that connection but it seems he is still unable to see just how truly awful Brother Luke and Caleb were.
I didn't think he completely trusted Harold, he grew to be more relaxed with Harold, but was always ready to be disappointed by him if Harold ever took that route like all of the other men in Jude's life. I can see how you many think Jude is unable to see the awful nature of Brother luke and Caleb, but I didn't see it this way at all. Jude figured out Luke was terrible and realized the same of Caleb...It's the only type of relationship with a man he thinks he deserves because he thinks he isn't worthy of anything better. If you think about it, it's no different than battered woman syndrome. These women have been indoctrinated to think very little of themselves since childhood either by an abusive parent, or some incident similar to it; they end up in an abusive relationship as an adult with someone who takes advantage of their insecurity, they either leave that abusive relationship for another one very similar to the previous, or they keep going back to the very same abuser...Right? There too can be comfort in chaos, as uncomfortable as it sounds.

Yes for sure the pattern of abuse just keeps continuing and continuing for poor Jude. I did think about battered women as well and have read that once a person has been abused that they are more likely to be abused again. Abusers look for certain qualities in their victims and it's like how Jude was so ground down and thought of himself as so worthless that he was unable to see how it wasn't his fault. It's amazing (in a terrible grotesque way) how much abuse Jude has had to deal with all before the age of 15. And how it radiates and controls his life for much longer afterwards. It's like the effects of trauma are inescapable.

Catherine wrote: "Yes for sure the pattern of abuse just keeps continuing and continuing for poor Jude. I did think about battered women as well and have read that once a person has been abused that they are more li..."

It's like the effects of trauma are inescapable.
I think whether or not, for those who have been severely abused, seek or don't seek help from a medical professional, the trauma is inescapable as you say; but the effects of the trauma can be better managed under their guidance.

Ami wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Ami I just love that you made that connection!! Jude is a modern day and less selfish Philip in some ways, but I think still a better person all around.

And no you cannot read this..."

weirdly, this book makes me want to read other books that just tear you apart emotionally. I was hoping to have time to read Wild Swans this summer for that purpose, but it doesn't look like I'll get to it anytime soon unfortunately.

Caleb is one of the most loathsome characters I have ever read about. I literally had to just get up, stop reading, make dinner, take a walk, whatever. It was SO disturbing. And yet... Jude tolerates it. Accepts it. Let's him back in. Truly heartbreaking. I wish Harold had kicked the crap out of Caleb like he deserved.

I think that with children who suffer from abuse there is a greater likelihood to have compulsions like OCD, because they were so abused and had such utter helplessness and lack of control as children that they are desperate to assert control over their surroundings as adults.

Jude growing up in a monastery.... ugh. What a monastery it was. I can't think of it this way, it really was a torture chamber full of sadists.

I agree with Ami that I think Jude knew how awful Brother Luke and Caleb were... but thought he deserved that treatment.

I worked with battered women in law school... and had to stop. They just kept making excuses, they just kept going back. I felt helpless. It was horrible.

I think effects of trauma are inevitable, but some can adjust with help. Unfortunately, I think there are some cases where people just give up on themselves though.

Dianne wrote: "Ami wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Ami I just love that you made that connection!! Jude is a modern day and less selfish Philip in some ways, but I think still a better person all around.

And no you cann..."

Dianne, if Jude was your best friend...After seeing him like this (post Caleb), how would you have dealt with Jude? In fact, how would you have dealt with Jude pre-Caleb? Do you think taking a stand in your friend's life is worth losing the friendship?

I was beside myself in this section. I can't imagine working with battered women, I know I would feel defeated; but for those cases where a woman can regain even an ounce of self-worth/respect/esteem and is strong enough to cut her losses, then I'm sure it's what makes the effort worth it.

I cannot even express how excruciating it was to read that...and every chapter was worse. It was horrifying. I know that stuff happens, but to have it described in such vivid detail.... I wanted to vomit the whole way through. Yes, a warning label would be appropriate!

Did anyone else want to smack the hell out of his friends? I get letting him carry on for awhile because they are trying to respect him, but my God, at what point do you not get that he's NOT getting better, that he HAS to speak with a psychiatrist, that he has GOT to get help, whether he hates you for it or not? These folks have known him for YEARS! At some point, there are no excuses anymore! And as much as I like Andy, he should lose his medical license! He KNOWS what's going on, but doesn't put his foot down. What does it take? Even after he nearly dies, they seem to be just letting him get away with not talking. At least Willem is finally asking him! It's about damn time!

Alana wrote: "I cannot even express how excruciating it was to read that...and every chapter was worse. It was horrifying. I know that stuff happens, but to have it described in such vivid detail.... I wanted to..."

God bless you, Alana...You're still at it! WOW! LOL!

Of course I wanted to take some physical action against his friends...I too get they were giving him space, but it turned into giving him enough slack in the rope to hang himself with, i think.

What a great point about Andy...I didn't even think about how irresponsible he was being, Alana. You're right.

What does this mean as far as his relationships are concerned?

Haha, for some reason, I'm determined to finish this one (probably because I'm over halfway done now, lol). Honestly, I really do want to see where the whole story ends up going.... this was just a brutal chapter! I'm so glad the next section is called "The Happy Years!"

I know I can't judge his friends, because I haven't had a friend in that situation myself, but I would LIKE to imagine I'd have more cajones than that! Sometimes you have to stand up to your friends to make them see themselves! And yes, Andy, if he's really a good physician, is irresponsible. If he couldn't step back and see Jude's case more objectively, he should have passed his care to someone else who COULD say the things that need to be said, and have him committed to a psych ward by force, if necessary. Andy obviously is just too close to the situation to do it himself. It's bad enough that his other friends are doing it, but Andy? No excuse, none.

I'm hoping this means that since Willem is starting to get a LITTLE information about him that he will eventually start opening up and getting some healing, but I guess the next chapters will prove that or not. I'm hopeful!