Reading the Chunksters discussion

I have finished the first week's reading and my this is a STRANGE book so far! It is eerie and haunting and terrifying and disturbing and wonderful all at once. I am not certain at this point in the book what the connection is of the first preliminary chapter about Ursus and Homo with the rest of the book. Any ideas? The second preliminary chapter, The Comprachicos, was incredibly disturbing! I had to google this to confirm that this was not an actual historical practice and was profoundly relieved to hear that Hugo coined the term. How strange though, for him to have written this dark and twisted tale while ensconced in his gorgeous seaside home in Guernsey! This section made me think about laws that are created to help the poor and disenfranchised and actually have the opposite effect, like the rules passed here about the Comprachicos. Can you think of any that fit that description?

I felt that Book I really set the tone for the book. While it is horrifying and disturbing and made me profoundly grateful for my warm house and hot tea, it was thrilling to become absorbed in such a captivating tale that truly made me want to just keep reading on and on. I'm not going to read ahead so that I can keep with the discussion for the week and not accidentally reveal anything!

So the child who was abandoned by the Comprachicos was only ten, and I wonder how mentally disturbed he must have been already before he was left alone? No one spoke to him, no one cared for his welfare, no one showed him any attention whatsoever. Even at this young age, growing up that way, do you think he will be capable of any normal human relationship? I noticed also that he doesn't even have a NAME! Would it be possible for him to have any sense of personal identity?

He wanders up the mountain in a snowstorm, only to see the horrifying tarred skeleton, and it is fascinating how Hugo portrays this sight from a child's point of view. The child has no frame of reference, no sense of meaning for what he sees, has no questions in his mind, it is merely a frightful apparition and is likely to leave profound sensory impact that he won't have the ability to analyze until later.

As if the boy had not dealt with quite enough at this point, he begins to lose consciousness in a snowstorm, until the violent winds flapping the skeleton stir him to consciousness and he descends the mountain.

Is this not the most horrifying introduction to a book that you can recall? I can't think of one more haunting. I suppose he must survive, because we have the whole book ahead of us. But how???

I might add that while waiting for my purchased book to arrive I have a copy from the late 1800s!!!! from my library, with tissue paper pages and black and white illustrations. It is quite the experience!

Dianne wrote: "I have finished the first week's reading and my this is a STRANGE book so far! It is eerie and haunting and terrifying and disturbing and wonderful all at once. I am not certain at this point in th..."
Hi Dianne, I too have completed the first week's reading. And how can one NOT keep reading when chapters end with "It was a child," or "...the child remained on land", or "Unto this unknown he set out."
It is nice to know that the practice of the "Comprachicos" is not "an actual historical practice." But we do know that historically, there were brutal times in which starving families in some way mutilated family members (who were perhaps simply further mutilating a genetic defect) for begging purposes. Or has everything I've ever read on that subject fiction also? So, my question is, even though the specific terms Hugo utilizes (Comprachicos, Comprapequenos, Cheylas) are without historical references, can we simply rule out the practice of mutilation for entertainment, to make money, to create a circus, to identify oneself as a member of a tribe, to mark a person as an adultery, etc., as a basis for Hugo's idea? I'm as horrified as you are, Christine, by Hugo's chapter "The Comprachicos." On the other hand, I can't believe for a second that Shelley simply dreamed up the idea for "Frankenstein" out of thin air.

Diane, you ask a lot of great questions!
Ursus/Homo vs. the rest of the book. I think Hugo is opening with a central question about humanity: who is the man and who is the beast: Ursus or Homo?

Will this child ever be able to have normal/human relationships? That could be a central question of the entire book. Is this child already a "wolf/homo" which leads us to the natural followup question: "Is it better to be a "wolf /homo anyway instead of a "human being/"

Greg wrote: "Dianne wrote: "I have finished the first week's reading and my this is a STRANGE book so far! It is eerie and haunting and terrifying and disturbing and wonderful all at once. I am not certain at t..."

I love the way Hugo writes! Those cliff hangers are incredible! Not to be morbid but I honestly was expecting to find a huge wiki entry on child mutilation and I think some version of it probably did exist/does exist? Take for example the whole notion of 'circus freaks'. Some probably were just naturally 'malformed' but were others designed to be entertainment? Scary to think about! I was at the NY state fair this summer and they STILL have those types of exhibits, isn't that insane!

Yes, I agree Dianne, this is among the most horrific first fifty pages I've ever read. (Although if "A Little Life" had been told in chronological order, that would have been equally horrific..)

But my big question is this: I've read a ton of books in the past 60+ years, and I read a little bit of everything. Why have I never heard of this book? I've never heard anyone ever mention it. I don't pose the question in the sense that "I know everything and this book can't be any good, otherwise I would know about it" but in the sense that it is rather obscure, and so far I find it excellent, so how about this question: "Given that this book is this good (so far) why is it not more famous?"

Hello Dianne and Greg! I'm afraid I've only read a couple of pages and I'm unsure whether to continue. I'm not sure what's going on and I have many, many books to read!!

Just a cheeky 'jump-in' to say that when you talk of child mutilation, yes indeed it does exist today. As you say Greg the children are used for begging.

Outside one main international airport there were little children begging. It was dark. They were very scantily dressed. One very young boy carried a baby. His arms were missing above the elbow. The baby was sleeping and tied to him in some way. Our native countryman was able to tell us that this was common practice in order to pull on the heart strings. I had thought that it was a genetic aberration or a consequence of disease.

Preliminary Chapters I & II

In spite of Hugo's verbosity (WOW!), I have been held hostage by the novel. It's SO gripping, and already has the makings for a tragically beautiful love story ready to unfold before our very eyes. Hugo's word choice is like none I have ever seen...The subject matter carries immeasurable weight, but the words give off a sense of being lush and velvety, dripping of ambrosia. However instead of explaining the complexities and heft of the narrative so far; perhaps, it would be better to discuss the manner in which Hugo has weaved into his narrative pointers showing reading it is not for the faint-hearted as its full of intricate details. Hugo said of this novel, it demands a careful reader, one who loves to meditate on the details as well as on the big issues and ideals. These first two chapters have set the stage for what's to come and it reads dire, heinous, mysterious and intriguing!

Front and center we have our first character, Ursus...Part-time doctor, part-time philosopher, part-time poet, dabbler of quackery, juggler, ventriloquist, and more? His backstory, the narrative's backstory is rather dense, and at times, quite dull; but quickly I put those feelings aside and am truly able to embrace the lovely poetic nature of the narrative itself.

Dramatics of Ursus aside, I found him to be the embodiment of Hugo himself; since Hugo is also thought to be both philosopher and poet too; and the novel is said to be loosely semi-autobiographical. Both men are essentially savants in their own right, Hugo is even a self-proclaimed literary genius!. Also, there's a commonality in basic disposition between the two men. Hugo is known to have fallen into depression rendering a morose nature more often than not as he aged, and even says of Ursus, An old aging man is thinking ruin; and such ruin was Ursus. Ursus is further described as someone who finds it difficult to smile and cry; in fact, he had never been able to weep, so that he was deprived of the consolation of tears as well as the palliative of joy(19). Hugo's wife sought the company of his friend, at one point...She chose not to bear any more children, and found Hugo to be selfish. I do wonder if there is anything else to Ursus' character that has left him bereft of any "real" emotion?

There are moments in this first section, when Hugo makes references to actual accounts in history that I was not aware of; for example, The judges of assize increased and multiplied. Jeffreys had become a breed III...Were any of you aware he was talking about George Jeffreys' of the Monmouth Battle, known for his brutal sentencing of the Bloody Assizes?

I enjoyed the metamorphosis that was taking place between Ursus and Homo, was riveted by the long list of English/French upper crust posted on the walls/ceiling(?) of the van...Although it is known Ursus was a young philosopher in the court of a Lord and perhaps accumulated this information from his time there, but what the necessity of it is is still up in the air and it's going to be "good" once we find out more.

The Comprachicos, what is abhorrent about them is how they were utilized for political gain; to fracture the families of those in the way of the King at the time (James II?), the whole it's better to maim, than kill mentality; or using those who are intentionally disfigured as entertainment. The crux of this section, what I think will continue to trend through the rest of novel, is English Law and how it fails to correct social injustices within the growing struggle between the classes, as its compounding into a major theme.

What I find most interesting about the Comprachicos is that they called themselves, Christian, good Christians...They were more than Christians, they were Catholics...they were Roman (42)-I fail to understand how? Regardless of how wealthy they were, they still lived as transient vagabonds, there was no inclination, at least that I read for those involved, to separate from the group and pursue another form of business; what they did, they found to be just, but how?

The glimpse into the Chinese version of the comprachicos, for some reason, sounded familiar, but I can't place my finger on it at this point; perhaps, it was the reference to the Comprachicos use of Opium to anesthetize those who fell victim to their specialized work?

The illustrations in Hugo's original publication for "The Man Who Laughs: A Romance of English History ~By Order of the King ~L'Homme qui rit," were drawn by a Spanish born illustrator known as Daniel Vierge, the father of Modern Illustration. Here are some of his works as it pertains to these prelim chapters.

Ursus, Homo and their Van

I can't seem to post all of the images as they are not readily available on the net. I did however, find you a link to the original publication in google books. Half of the artwork was accomplished by Daniel Vierge and the other by G. Rochegrosse. You should be able to access all of the Artwork at your convenience-There is both a table of contents for the narrative and the artwork itself. Enjoy!

I fear that I must be of the 'faint-hearted', Ami. And not for the first time ...

Hilary wrote: "I fear that I must be of the 'faint-hearted', Ami. And not for the first time ..."

You are far from being Faint-hearted, you just finished OHB...Are you kidding me? If you can get through "it," it's safe to say, you'll get through anything. You've just fallen prey to "too many good books, not enough time scenario, Hillary. LOL!

Read this, when you have time...It's worth "every" word and "every" minute of your time!

Thank you, Ami! That's encouraging. I really want to take the time, but I shall have to see. I don't want to abandon the other books! My plan was to finish off all my unfinished books, but new ones are ever added! Ah well, it's a good problem to have! :-)

Greg wrote: "But my big question is this: I've read a ton of books in the past 60+ years, and I read a little bit of everything. Why have I never heard of this book? I've never heard anyone ever mention it. I d..."

Hi Greg! Most of Hugo's works are seemingly not very popular in the English speaking world for some obscure reason. It has not been translated since the turn of the century or so. Only Les Miserables and Notre-Dame have been popular (with tons of translations). Victor Hugo was a very prolific writer. To access his numerous works one has to turn to the free resources on Gutenberg or the compilations in e-books.

Delphi has a good compilation:
https://www.amazon.com/Delphi-Complet...
or, if you can read French:
https://www.amazon.com/Victor-Hugo-co...


However, I have really been pondering the very same question for a while. There seems to be no obvious reason why two of his works are extremely popular while the others remain covered with dust. I wonder what the French perspective is? Are his works (all of them) still very popular in France?

And now there is a MUSICAL!!!!!

Be careful about possible spoilers in this article.....!

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/201...

Dianne wrote: "I have finished the first week's reading and my this is a STRANGE book so far! It is eerie and haunting and terrifying and disturbing and wonderful all at once. I am not certain at this point in th..."

I am not certain at this point in the book what the connection is of the first preliminary chapter about Ursus and Homo with the rest of the book. Any ideas?
I think they will be central figures in what is to come, the reason being, Hugo gives us Ursus' history in the form of a thorough background check fit for Quantico...Why spend that much time on this character, if only to not give him an important role in the future?

How strange though, for him to have written this dark and twisted tale while ensconced in his gorgeous seaside home in Guernsey!
From what I understand, Hugo had clout in France and political ambitions; he supported freedom of the press which Louis Napolean did not. Hugo influenced an uprising against Napoleon once he announced being Emperor which led to bloodshed. I didn't think it was strange for him at all to write this while residing in the Channel Islands because he was in exile/hiding, so to speak, from then Emperor Louis Napoleon. It was not a good time for him or his family. I think a biography on Hugo should be in our future...He is alluring enough, as can be seen in the text!

Hugo also delved into the darker side of his personality during his time in hiding; he held seances, dabbling in the occult. Mysticism manifests itself early on in the narrative when Hugo write about Ursus' eccentricities and how the different classes perceive the unknown...On page seventeen, Ursus had never gone into the Low Countries; there they would certainly have weighed him, to ascertain whether he was of the normal weight, above or below which a man is a sorcerer.

The Comprachicos, was incredibly disturbing! I had to google this to confirm that this was not an actual historical practice and was profoundly relieved to hear that Hugo coined the term.
The Comprachicos may not have existed; but the group they were known to be analogous to, the Stranglers of India, better known as Thuggee; did exist ...Who knew (39)?

Haaze wrote: "Greg wrote: "But my big question is this: I've read a ton of books in the past 60+ years, and I read a little bit of everything. Why have I never heard of this book? I've never heard anyone ever me..."

I've read the two major criticisms for this novel are a)it's too wordy, and b)poorly executed. Hugo wrote it somewhere around fifteen months. If you've read any others by Hugo, how does this one compare so far?

Thanks for the insight into Hugo's character, Ami. He was not a straightforward man by any means. As it's my first by Monsieur Hugo, I have nothing with which to compare it. Not that two lines qualifies me to judge in anyone's book. (Ha! Accidental pun! Is this even a pun?!)

Hilary wrote: "Thanks for the insight into Hugo's character, Ami. He was not a straightforward man by any means. As it's my first by Monsieur Hugo, I have nothing with which to compare it. Not that two lines qual..."

Yes, his life was full of terrible hardships... Very humble beginnings, the loss of a doted upon daughter, he was a philanderer, an acrimonious marriage, intermixedwith a scandalous political climate in France. Despite the pitfalls, I doubt Hugo was ever a joy to live with, the "genius" types rarely ever are.

Oh, it's mine too... Glad to be sharing the experience with you!

Lovely pun, Hilary! LoL!

You're too kind, Ami! My, my what a life. It amazes me how so many people deal with hideous experiences and they manage to stand at the end of it. Chekhov certainly was one such person and I'm sure that that is only scratching the surface. It's hard to imagine how he survived (until eventually he didn't.).

Ahem! Please excuse me! HUGO not Chekhov!!! Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing!! :p

I just finished reading this section.

I haven't read anything by Victor Hugo since "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" when I was in junior high school - which was a long time ago.

It took me a while to get back into the prose and style of writing but I'm a completely hooked now. I almost went ahead also but didn't want to get confused.

Like Dianne, I also googled the Comprachicos because I had never heard of them before and I've read a lot of historical fiction.

While I am a little hesitant about what is going to happen to this poor boy, because I can't imagine any of it being good, I feel compelled to keep reading on.

The book so far has left me feeling unsettled and very grateful that my child will hopefully never experience life like that...

Looking forward to the next section...

Could some one please help this doh-headed would-be reader?! I can't find the schedule which tells me what this section entails. How many chapters please? Or where is schedule? Or both!!:p. Thank you so much!

Hilary wrote: "Could some one please help this doh-headed would-be reader?! I can't find the schedule which tells me what this section entails. How many chapters please? Or where is schedule? Or both!!:p. Thank y..."

If you're at a loss for the reading schedule click here.

It's listed in sections. If you still need the individual chapters, let me know.

Thanks Ami! Unfortunately I can't get the link to work. It's probably my phone which has been playing up a lot recently. I shall keep trying! :-)

Hilary wrote: "Thanks Ami! Unfortunately I can't get the link to work. It's probably my phone which has been playing up a lot recently. I shall keep trying! :-)"

I'm so sorry, didn't work for me either...I fixed it. If it still doesn't work for you, Click on the second "man who laughs" up at the very top, it will take you to all the threads set up so far.

Sorry, Ami, I've tried. It's probably my iPhone. Many things don't work on it. I couldn't get to the top of the page or at least there wasn't an obvious second 'Man Who Laughs'. :O

Hi Hilary! I'm so glad you are joining! Love your comments on the threads even if you are just making observations and haven't read the sections! We are reading this through the end of December so you have plenty of time.

Hilary wrote: "Sorry, Ami, I've tried. It's probably my iPhone. Many things don't work on it. I couldn't get to the top of the page or at least there wasn't an obvious second 'Man Who Laughs'. :O"
Clicking on any of them will take you to all the threads. Can you not access the group homepage and navigate from there?

Anyway, this week's reading is everything until Part I BookII.

Plenty of time..!?! Sure, Dianne! Sure....
*slowly recovering from all the TBR piles that fell over me*

I'm an eternal optimist. :)

We need to clone you!

I suspect that may scare people ;)

Just the eternal optimist part... ; -)

Ah, that is much less scary

Well, I ordered the book a week or so ago, but it's coming from the UK, so it probably won't get here for another week. However, I did get a PDF off the web. Plus, I got a little behind my own reading schedule, so I've only read the preliminary chapters so far.

There is something I found interesting. It's a big paragraph actually so I'm only going to include parts of it. If you want the full text, it's the second paragraph from the end of the 1st preliminary chapter.


"His great business was to hate the human race. He was implacable in that hate. Having made it clear that human life is a dreadful thing... the plague on the war, famine on the plague, folly on everything...existence having recognized that death is a deliverance-When they brought him a sick man he cured him... "There, you are on your paws once more; may you walk long in this valley of tears!"... "live on, you wretch! eat! last a long time! It is not I who would shorten your penal servitude." After which, he would rub his hands and say, "I do men all the harm I can""

The book does not mention whether or not he is religious, but it did mention about him trying the occult. Ursus's view of life is fascinating. You can clearly see how he thinks of death as deliverance from life. Yet, its kinda dark to think that by helping people who are sick or in need he is actually being mean and harmful to them. It's pretty twisted in my opinion.

Thanks so much, Ami, for the schedule update!

Thank you, Dianne, for your welcome. And hahaha to you and Haaze. This amused me! :-);

Ami, sorry for the bother I caused you!!! I suddenly pressed something and the schedule appeared in front of me! (Hope it works again! I'm sure it will! :-))

Denise wrote: "I just finished reading this section.

I haven't read anything by Victor Hugo since "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" when I was in junior high school - which was a long time ago.

It took me a while t..."

so glad you got hooked on the book early Denise! Yes, one thing I love about reading these dark and twisted stories is the reminder of how great MY life is in comparison! And yes, your child will have the moon and the stars compared to this poor one of our story!

JJ wrote: "Well, I ordered the book a week or so ago, but it's coming from the UK, so it probably won't get here for another week. However, I did get a PDF off the web. Plus, I got a little behind my own read..."

I totally agree with you JJ that this was an especially twisted part of the book and I'm glad you brought it up. Clearly Ursus was so jaded with life that perhaps he thought suicide an escape, felt that life itself was damnation and that by curing others he was condemning them to continue to exist in that damnation. Quite miserable thinking indeed! It really makes me wonder how this will tie in to the rest of the book, I could see how our young child might develop that line of thinking given that he has not experienced any love or care in his young life so far.

I received my book yesterday, yay! I have to say I was a bit intimidated by the size of the box it came in but was happy to see that the type is pretty big so it's not THAT intimidating. The only other Hugo I have read is Les Misérables which I loved. I am hoping to get to The Hunchback of Notre-Dame before the end of the year.

The first two preliminary chapters drew me in. I was immediately drawn to Ursus and Homo. As much as I love my dogs, I have wanted a wolf ever since I first read A Game of Thrones. The Comprachicos were horrifying. Bad enough to buy and sell children but to purposely deform them, wow just wow. The comment about them being good christians and very devout just killed me. WTH? While I did find these two parts interesting I'm not sure how this fits in with the rest of the story.

Book the First - Now I'm really sucked in. I'm not sure I've ever read a bleaker more hopeless beginning to a novel. How in the world is this kid going to survive?? The scene with the hanging corpse was no horrible I'm surprised I didn't have nightmares. What a great job Hugo did with the descriptions there. It felt so real to me and just straight out of a nightmare.

I'm really looking forward to the next section and am really glad I decided to read this with you guys as this is probably not a book I would have read on my own.

Amanda....

I agree with you...I would have never picked this book up on my own!

Me either! All credit goes to Ami as I had never heard of this book!!

Ami wrote: "Preliminary Chapters I & II

In spite of Hugo's verbosity (WOW!), I have been held hostage by the novel. It's SO gripping, and already has the makings for a tragically beautiful love story ready t..."
Ami, thanks so much for all that information! Lots of new ways to look at what we have read so far!

Haaze wrote: "Greg wrote: "But my big question is this: I've read a ton of books in the past 60+ years, and I read a little bit of everything. Why have I never heard of this book? I've never heard anyone ever me..."

Haaze, thanks for the links. Maybe this book takes a turn for "bad" latter on, but so far I like it a lot!

Ami wrote: "Haaze wrote: "Greg wrote: "But my big question is this: I've read a ton of books in the past 60+ years, and I read a little bit of everything. Why have I never heard of this book? I've never heard ..."
Ami, I could not emotionally connect with the book Les Miz, I found it boring, didn't like the play, but did like the musical. So, to me, so far, Laughs is better than Les Miz.

Amanda wrote: "I received my book yesterday, yay! I have to say I was a bit intimidated by the size of the box it came in but was happy to see that the type is pretty big so it's not THAT intimidating. The only o..."
Amanda, about that scene with the hanging corpse, I suppose that is a representation of "the Man Who Laughs", perhaps someone who has mutilated children previously and was executed for it.

All, I think this book has many descendents. Chapter five, for me, read just like McCarthy's The Road, and Hugo did that whole book in just a few pages! I couldn't help myself, I had to move on to the first page of Book the Second, where we are back on the ship! What about the lost child?

All, like most of you, I've never heard of this book and would never have read it had I not been invited to this group. For me, so far, every chapter ending is a cliff-hanger. I can't wait to move forward. I predict the story of the child and why he was left on the island alone is the central theme, and it all wraps around this issue. But I don't know!

Dianne wrote: "JJ wrote: "Well, I ordered the book a week or so ago, but it's coming from the UK, so it probably won't get here for another week. However, I did get a PDF off the web. Plus, I got a little behind ..."
Dianne, well, is Ursus the grown up child? Or is the child mutilated and is homo the wolf?