Reading the Chunksters discussion

This story has taken an interesting turn, into a romance?? What do you think of our young adult Dea and Gwynplaine - does their relationship embody true love? Is it correct that their love would have been impossible but for the disabilities each has? What are your thoughts regarding Ursus and his facilitation of the romance? What are your thoughts on our young lovers and their role as, essentially, circus freaks?

I think it is truly amazing that these two have such an incredible capacity to love and be selfless despite all that they have been through. Do they still have faith in humanity? Or have they lost that, but exist in the cocoon of faith in, and love for, each other?

Dianne wrote: "This story has taken an interesting turn, into a romance?? What do you think of our young adult Dea and Gwynplaine - does their relationship embody true love? Is it correct that their love would ha..."
Dianne, I'm not really a fan of the romance/love genre. I even agree with a reviewer/publication who wrote that the only believable and honest love story of the 20th century was "Lolita": the older man did absolutely love Lolita, so much so that at the end... whoops better not say. Anyone who hasn't read Lolita MUST! My point that I want to make is I LOVE this part of the book, it's beautiful...well, up to a point, more on that later.

Dianne wrote: "This story has taken an interesting turn, into a romance?? What do you think of our young adult Dea and Gwynplaine - does their relationship embody true love? Is it correct that their love would ha..."
Would their love have been impossible without the disabilities. I loved when Hugo writes "They were in love" which is the perfect counterpoint to an earlier comment about Barkelphedro, who "may have been in love with Josiana a little." Diane, I think Hugo goes on to answers this disability issue, I think, with a stunningly beautiful comment as follows: And Ursus replied, "Booby! do souls require mortal eyes to see each other?" No, not impossible I don't think, but highly unlikely had they not met as they did. Can't wait to hear the input of others. I'm enthralled, and I also loved Silas Marner, from the same time period. I read that recently for the first time, and I didn't know the story, but had always thought Silas was a miserable miser. As it turned out, he was a beautiful human being misunderstood, most likely because he was so good and kind. The more I read today's literature, the more I love 19th century literature.

Greg wrote: "Dianne wrote: "This story has taken an interesting turn, into a romance?? What do you think of our young adult Dea and Gwynplaine - does their relationship embody true love? Is it correct that thei..."

I'm with you, I hate romance! ha! I haven't read lolita, I'll have to pick that up. It always seems creepy to me so I have avoided it. I also agree with you that it is impossible not to find these two heartwarming, their story is just so simple and human and utterly devoid of any trace of selfishness, loved reading this.

Greg wrote: "Dianne wrote: "This story has taken an interesting turn, into a romance?? What do you think of our young adult Dea and Gwynplaine - does their relationship embody true love? Is it correct that thei..."

I was always a fan of 19th century russian literature, but am just this past year reading heavily into other 19th century russian literature, and I am loving it as well. There is a huge body of work to choose from also!

The romance doesn't bother me... I feel that it adds a somewhat hopefulness to what so far has been rather dreariness (albeit intriguing).

I feel that Hugo does a good point in explaining how they found each other and how each fulfills the need in the other. And while it is highly unlikely they would have ever fallen in love otherwise, their circumstances have made it possible.

Dianne wrote: "Greg wrote: "Dianne wrote: "This story has taken an interesting turn, into a romance?? What do you think of our young adult Dea and Gwynplaine - does their relationship embody true love? Is it corr..."
"Lolita" may be the most beautifully written book in the English language. How Nabokov did this, his native language being Russian, is astounding and worth the read in and of itself. About the subject matter, well, the older guy is simply madly, truly in love. But in essence, that's beside the point: the words are the thing. Just like Joyce's works.

Denise wrote: "The romance doesn't bother me... I feel that it adds a somewhat hopefulness to what so far has been rather dreariness (albeit intriguing).

I feel that Hugo does a good point in explaining how the..."
Denise, I must qualify that I love the love story within this book. it's just beautiful.

Yes, the love story is poignant and so tender. We have two very vulnerable young people who have been through the most incredibly harrowing experiences in their short lives. It's true that Dea doesn't properly remember what happened to her, nevertheless the trauma of that early period when she was abandoned to a dead mother must surely have left an imprint on her spirit.

The interdependence that these young lovers have is very touching though a little troubling. It is already obvious that their ability to be hurt by one another is far reaching. It is possible though improbable that they would have fallen in love had circumstances been different. I suppose I'm an old romantic at heart; I like to think that as part of the human race we have the power to reach beyond superficiality. My daughter and I watched Disney's 'Beauty and the Beast' recently. True love won through.

I wonder if Dea once kissed by Gwynplaine would notice his deformity. Perhaps not as she would have no comparison, although she does have herself. Anyhow this is hardly of the greatest importance. I'm thinking aloud!

I don't mind the love story. Like Ursus explains, I believe that Gwynplaine and Dea are "made for each other" as they say. Hugo goes to great lengths with Ursus opinion of their love. He clearly shows us the reason why Dea would not love Gwynplaine if she could see visual. Dea can see inward into people's hearts.

I personally liked this line. Which still holds true today. ""Yes," murmured Gwynplaine sadly, "the paradise of the rich is made out of the hell of the poor."

Book II

Agh! To read about the surgery, physical assault, what have you, on an innocent unassuming child was absolutely harrowing...

That science, clever with the knife, skilled in obtusions and ligatures, had enlarged the mouth, cut away the lip, laid bare the gums, distended the ears, cut the cartilages, displaced the eyelids and the cheeks, enlarged the zygomatic muscle, pressed the scars and cicatrices to a level, turned back the skin over the lesions whilst the face was thus stretched, from all which resulted that powerful and profound piece of sculpture, the mask, Gwynplaine

This had to be anything but normal for the comprachicos, as they hideously went above and beyond on a young, a "very" young, Gwynplaine...I do wonder why so drastic a transmutation (265)? I know it is not, I for one am having a very hard time wrapping my head around what man has the ability to do to another in this sense. However, at the same time, it should not be surprising with he details about the upper crust and what they considered to be entertainment (the violent "to the death" fighting circuits, the advantageous treatment of the poor just because they were poor)...It's all quite abonimable.



Comic book artist Jerry Robinson was inspired by Gwynplaine, in The Man Who Laughs to portray the role of the Joker in Batman in 1940.

Gwynplaine and Dea
I was not surprised by their love story since it was alluded to in the preliminary chapters...At least I read into it this way. Now knowing the gruesome details of Gwynplaine's face (which seem to be getting worse in description as we progress in this reading), it brings me happiness that he has the love of Dea; even if at this point they are only touching hands and reveling in one another's presence and reverie. Whatever alchemy it is that brought these two together, they have grown symbiotically and out of necessity. What would have been the quality of their lives without one another? As far as Gwynplaine is concerned, Hugo writes, he is

met with no encouragement. On the face of every woman who looked upon him he saw aversion antipathy, repugnance and rejection. It was clear that no other than Dea was possible for him(289).

This is what is in store for Gwynplaine, I am sad to say. Ursus refers to Dea as delicate, and it seems she does not have to do much of anything, even cutting her own bread, as Gwynplaine takes care of that as well...She seems feeble to me. Perhaps I'm being cynical, but star-crossed lovers never have had it easy, to say the least. LOL! In spite of these thoughts, this was a time where they prospered on account of Gwynplaine's man-made mask...They were doing very well for themselves, and I was happy for their success, but couldn't help but think "at what cost?!" Keeping this in mind and realizing they were headed to London...It all felt like double edged sword to me.


What interests me is Dea's intuitiveness....Her clairvoyance (286). Is that she's really just this, or is it because of her visual impairment her other senses are ultimately heightened.

Dianne wrote: "This story has taken an interesting turn, into a romance?? What do you think of our young adult Dea and Gwynplaine - does their relationship embody true love? Is it correct that their love would ha..."

Greg wrote: "Denise wrote: "The romance doesn't bother me... I feel that it adds a somewhat hopefulness to what so far has been rather dreariness (albeit intriguing).

I feel that Hugo does a good point in exp..."

Hilary wrote: "I wonder if Dea once kissed by Gwynplaine would notice his deformity. Perhaps not as she would have no comparison, although she does have herself. Anyhow this is hardly of the greatest importance. ..."

JJ wrote: "I don't mind the love story. Like Ursus explains, I believe that Gwynplaine and Dea are "made for each other" as they say. Hugo goes to great lengths with Ursus opinion of their love. He clearly sh..."

""Yes," murmured Gwynplaine sadly, "the paradise of the rich is made out of the hell of the poor."
I wrote down that same exact quote JJ! So true. It's just the way the cookie crumbles, unfortunately.

"I wonder if Dea once kissed by Gwynplaine would notice his deformity.
I thought they were kissing but on the arms and hands, not the face? What I "was" wondering ...Shouldn't she have felt/touched his face by now, isn't this a norm for those who are blind?

I must qualify that I love the love story within this book. it's just beautiful.
To say that I do too is an understatement, Greg...It's uber sweet and "tender" as Hillary has mentioned. But dangit, I've just felt so much sadness for the two of them...Of something eminent around the corner.

Do they still have faith in humanity?
This is an interesting question as I didn't think they've been exposed to anybody other than Ursus for any time longer than a hot minute, if that. They caravan around the area and perform, but to what extent have they "interacted" with outsiders? The only one's I can think of are those that are there to be entertained by them, yet it is from afar, no? But Gwynplaine has the gift of sight, so he is defenseless as to how people react to him; then there's Dea with her gift of intuition making her vulnerable to extraneous unresolved energies. Together, maybe they are able to flesh out the world around them; creating a safe space for one another in which faith in humanity would remain intact since each sees the humanity in one another so deeply.