THE WORLD WAR TWO GROUP discussion

The December 2016 theme read is on any World War Two novel or novels of your choice.

In October I read Rogue Heroes: The History of the SAS, Britain's Secret Special Forces Unit That Sabotaged the Nazis and Changed the Nature of War by Ben Macintyre and can recommend it highly to anyone who wants to learn of the SAS daring action in WWII and it's role as the precursor of all elite behind-enemy-line military units...

I'm in, look forward to some good suggestions (or I'll try my old favourite The Winds of War :-) )

Bevan wrote: "I'm in, look forward to some good suggestions (or I'll try my old favourite The Winds of War :-) )"

Will wrote: "In October I read Rogue Heroes: The History of the SAS, Britain's Secret Special Forces Unit That Sabotaged the Nazis and Changed the Nature of War by Ben Macintyre and can recommend it highly to a..."

I've just read Damien Lewis book "Churchill's Secret Warriors: The explosive true story of the Special Forces Desperadoes of WW2. I can thoroughly recommend it. It concentrates on the story of Anders Lassen and incredibly brave man and the template for the SAS style soldier.

I'm in and I'm going to go with Von Ryan's Express

Unless "Vienna Secrets" (Tallis) counts, I'd appreciate suggestions--I've already read the two novels previously mentioned.

I read this several years ago and thought it was really good:

The Right Kind of War

Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman for me.

Life and Fate Vasily Grossman

I have made a start on this. This had come up on my feed a couple of years back and I had read a few extremely positive reviews with some calling it a masterpiece. I also read the mainstream literary reviews and the same was said. With that grabbed a copy. It has been since sitting on the shelf and this was an opportune time to get on and read it. At about 860 pages is is long so with that I started just over a week back.

My copy is the Vintage edition 2006. It has an introduction by Linda Carter who writes she read the book in 3 weeks and took 3 weeks to “recover from the experience.” She had also “urged all my friends to read it.” She is of the opinion that the novel should be as famous as Doctor Zhivago and The Gulag Archipelago. I have never read these books but based on what I read this is high praise.

With that I am expecting something close to approaching a masterpiece. She also includes a historical background that is followed by a one page explanation of the translation by Robert Chandler. We also have a page that lists a few books on Stalin’s Russia and by Grossman himself. There is also a List of Chief Characters at the back of the book. I think it would have been wiser to put this at the front for easier access. Be that as it may it is useful as it seems to have a huge cast. I have read that Grossman modelled the book on Tolstoy's War and Piece. I read War and Piece and thought it wonderful.


This is a novel of the war in Stalingrad and the main protagonists being the Shapashnikov family.

(view spoiler)[Chapters 1 to 6 of part one. These chapters tell about Mikhail Mostovskoy, an old Bolshevik who is now in a German concentration camp. He is of interest to the Nazi authorities as he is a Commissar. He is a philosophical individual and but committed to the revolution to the point of being dismissive to a Polish Catholic Bishop he meets on his journey to the camp. While in the camp he has the ear of most of the inmates but finds he is most interested in the Tolstyian outsider called Ikonnikov. Though dismissive initially he seems to enjoy the debates they have. I have found these first 6 chapters fascinating and this hopefully bodes well for a book that 855 pages long.

Chapters 7 to 9. Covers the movements of the Officers of Soviet Army in Stalingrad. Zakharov, Chuylov and Krylov feature prominently. These are all historical characters.

Chapter 10 sees the arrival of Krymov. This is the first member of the Shaposhnioov family to appear in the book. He has arrived at Stalingrad as a commissar commissioned to sort an issue out between two rivals. Both had hitherto been killed. He stays and gives a lecture at Colonel General Alexander Rodimtsev command post for the 13th Guards Rifle Division. The post comes under attack and Krymov joins the defence. Chapter 11 sees the attack defeated and in Chapter 12 Krymov recalls that his wife has left him. Chapter 13 and we meet Lieutenant General Yeremenko, commander in chief of the Stalingrad Front, who waits for three days until there is a break in the attack by the Germans so as to cross the river to see Chuylov who is leading the defence. The meeting is strained.

Chapter 14. Major Byerozkin is introduced and goes on battalion inspection with his orderly Glushkov. Byerozkin is a seemingly thoughtful individual and seems to care for the troops under him He hears the story of a fish but though letting the troops know he is aware he lets them keep it.

Chapter 15 and 16. Lyudmila Nikolaevna Shaposhnikova muses on her daughter Nadya, her mother Alexandra Vladimirova and her second husband Viktor Pavlovich Shtrum. She muses especially on her son from her first marriage. Family tensions are running high. Viktor no longer discusses his work with Lyudmila and she is aware of that. Chapter 17 Viktor considers his work as a physicist and thinks of how it is determining history. But he also has doubts about his own ability.

Chapter 18. Viktor’s mothers last letter to her son. Brilliantly chilling by author Grossman. Chapter 19. Viktor considers his Jewishness, the nature of fascism and his mother’s letter. “And once more he felt a cold blade against his throat” Chapter 20. Lyudmila eldest son from her first marriage has sent a letter to her explaining a very serious war would. Viktor arranges for her to go and see him.
(hide spoiler)]

I'm going to read CROSS OF IRON by Willi Heinrich.

Bevan wrote: "I'm in, look forward to some good suggestions (or I'll try my old favourite The Winds of War :-) )"

I had never heard of this. Sounds great.

If you like WINDS of WAR, there is a sequel, WAR and REMEMBRANCE.

Nooilforpacifists wrote: "Unless "Vienna Secrets" (Tallis) counts, I'd appreciate suggestions--I've already read the two novels previously mentioned."

I was nosey enough to read your bookshelf. :-) You have https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1... unread. If you have a copy of course.

Hi all.

My short novel The Thankful: A novel of the May War of 1940 is set during the Nazi invasion of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. I've a very limited number of gratis copies available if anyone wants to reach out. . .

And also looking for other titles to read.

Cheers.
Jamie.

Betsy wrote: "I'm going to read CROSS OF IRON by Willi Heinrich."

Having seen the movie prior to reading this, I will admit to being a little disappointed they were so different. His other book, "Crack of Doom" is a good one.

Betsy wrote: "I'm going to read CROSS OF IRON by Willi Heinrich."

Excellent film!

I'm in. Currently reading 109 East Palace: Robert Oppenheimer and the Secret City of Los Alamos https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/5...

Finished up the following last month, Survivors of Stalingrad, https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...

Company Commander: The Classic Infantry Memoir of WWII
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

My Mother's Ring: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...

All, excellent reads.

4ZZZ wrote: "Life and Fate by Vasily Grossman for me.

Life and FateVasily Grossman

I have made a start on this. This had come up on my feed a couple of years back and I had read ..."

I'll second Life and Fate. I would also suggest Svetlana Alexievich's War's Unwomanly Face and/or Last Witnesses.

WAR'S UNWOMANLY FACE is a great book, even if non-fiction.

^^^ I can't for the life of me find it as an ebook. Might have to go to the library.

I don't think you will find it as an e-book. I had to order it through our state library. Well worth the effort though.

Since it's December, I thought I'd go somewhere warm;
Hearts of Stone

Great timing, I've a 100 pages to go in this doorstop set in 1942/44 Languedoc:
by Kate Mosse

Darn it I was determined to join in this month but I haven't the patience to read fiction any longer,its twenty years since I last did so,there's too much I want to learn.

I'd recommend some older ones:

I first heard about this one from the 1970s TV miniseries, that I never got to see all of when it broadcast. I found the book in the 90s, and was told that it was very popular among current army officers. Finally scored the DVD of the miniseries a few years ago... the book was better.

Takes place on a Navy transport ship, so it's a little like "Mr. Roberts." First recommended to me by a friend's dad, who served on an LST.

Those are my 4-star likes. From other suggestions here, I liked Cross of Iron and the Caine Mutiny, too.

Lee wrote: "Darn it I was determined to join in this month but I haven't the patience to read fiction any longer,its twenty years since I last did so,there's too much I want to learn."

I'm the same Lee however there is one WW2 novel that I found was pretty damn good and based on the authors actual experiences during the war:

The Red Horse by Eugenio Corti

If you like to hear a different perspective of WW2, and some history you might not be aware of, try my novel. Based on a true story.
Threaten to Undo Us.

I think I'm going to read The Cruel Sea . It's gotten some good reviews from group members.

Terrific book and film. Makes you grateful to be at home warm and dry--and not at war.

A.L. wrote: "I think I'm going to read The Cruel Sea . It's gotten some good reviews from group members."

A. L. -- To me the best novel of WW II at sea.

^^^ "Snorkers!"

The Cruel Sea it is!

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Lee wrote: "Darn it I was determined to join in this month but I haven't the patience to read fiction any longer,its twenty years since I last did so,there's too much I want to learn."

I'm the sam..."

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Lee wrote: "Darn it I was determined to join in this month but I haven't the patience to read fiction any longer,its twenty years since I last did so,there's too much I want to learn."

I'm the sam..."

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Lee wrote: "Darn it I was determined to join in this month but I haven't the patience to read fiction any longer,its twenty years since I last did so,there's too much I want to learn."

I'm the sam..

That one looks interesting!

A.L. wrote: "I think I'm going to read The Cruel Sea . It's gotten some good reviews from group members."

Always raises a smile, in was one of my Grandad's favourites - he said it was spot on.

Sitting on the shelf for the past 4 years. Time to read it.

The Stalin Organ

Just read UNYIELDING. It gave me a good idea of what it was like for Aryan Germans in Germany who were not thrilled with Nazism.

Robyn wrote: "Just read UNYIELDING. It gave me a good idea of what it was like for Aryan Germans in Germany who were not thrilled with Nazism.
"

I see this is part 2 of a trilogy. You gave the first part a very good review. In your opinion who is the audience that these books are aimed at?

I think this author wants her grandparents' story known so people worldwide will understand the pre-WW2 and WW2 conditions in Germany for the average citizen. She now lives in Germany, but based on my contact with her, she writes like a person who has lived in an English-speaking nation for some time. I believe she would like those of us from the Allied nations to know many everyday Germans did not necessarily go along with Hitler and Nazism. It's just that once the people realized the danger, the party had gained enough power so that it was all but too late to turn things around. They were caught in the vise themselves, and from early on suffered privations and loss of freedoms. It was either go along or be destroyed. There were those who resisted and made an effort to sabotage, but many of their stories are not as well known as the resistance stories of Allied nations.

4ZZZ -- Good point! I'll start it next!

I am about 3/4 of the way through CROSS OF IRON, and think it's an interesting read. It reminds me of other WWII novels that I am familiar with, which concentrate on small platoons or companies so that you really get to know the characters. The one unique thing about this book so far is how much I despise Captain Stransky, a mid-level officer who desperately wants an Iron Cross. There are always characters to dislike in most war novels, but for some reason I grit my teeth every time Stransky puts in an appearance.

Betsy wrote: "I am about 3/4 of the way through CROSS OF IRON, and think it's an interesting read. It reminds me of other WWII novels that I am familiar with, which concentrate on small platoons or companies so ..."

The movie did a good job of making him despicable as well. Which just shows how good the actor was.

Maximilian Schell is a fine actor so I am not surprised. :-) I hope to see the film one day.

Its a classic movie, one of my all time favourite WW2 movies in fact.

Was James Mason in it? Where the Iron Crosses Grow?

Yes James Mason was in it along with James Coburn:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074695/?...

Video clip:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074695/v...

I remember it, vaguely. Years ago. It might have been the first un-heroic war movie I ever watched.

Jamie wrote: "I remember it, vaguely. Years ago. It might have been the first un-heroic war movie I ever watched."

Watching that movie even now, I still only have one moment where my suspension of disbelief hits the fan. I still can't get over a Corsair getting called a Sturmavik. Go figure.

Dj wrote: "Jamie wrote: "I remember it, vaguely. Years ago. It might have been the first un-heroic war movie I ever watched."

Watching that movie even now, I still only have one moment where my suspension of..."

Needs must I guess. At least they had T-34's.

Is it just me, or is "The Last Field Marshal" an awkwardly-written book? Several times, the same phrase is used twice within a few pages, and -- often -- rather than hatching a plot, the author just writes "Cliff Notes" condensed history to add a few months.

Jonny wrote: "Dj wrote: "Jamie wrote: "I remember it, vaguely. Years ago. It might have been the first un-heroic war movie I ever watched."

Watching that movie even now, I still only have one moment where my su..."

To get access to the T-34's was a part of the reason why the choose to film it where they did. Yugoslavia...I think, I might not be remembering clearly, but I think that was it.

I am going to try and finish this one for the montly group read. I want to start off by saying that in general I don't really care for this type of book. This is no reflection on the author, or the authors of this category of books, or sub category, or whatever. LOL.

I love James Bond movies, I dislike the books. Same goes for Dirk Pitt and this one is falling into that mold of main character. To be honest I am sort of hit and miss on the whole action/adventure subset. Many of the main characters have general smug and overpowered sort of feeling. A lot like min-maxed characters in RPGs. They can do damn near everything and what they can do they do it so well. From a personal stand point this makes it hard to maintain the suspension of disbeleaf. After all I figure the individual in question with all those skill sets must be about fifty by the time they get done just learning them all that well. Okay, so maybe that is a tad much.

Having said that, this book is well written so far, and the only things that were really jarring, were all editing errors. So no worries in the writing arena. What that all means...well if you like James Bond and Action Adventure you should probably give this book a go. I find it reads a lot better and easier than Broune Identity. Another Movie I really liked.