On the Southern Literary Trail discussion

So, you've decided to read The Devil All the Time. Be warned. This one isn't for the squeamish. However, it's a remarkable read.

Please discuss your initial impressions in this topic. No spoilers, please.

Mike

Having read this one last year, I'm going to enjoy sitting on "the log" and watching where the discussion goes. My guess is that it will be quite polarizing as far as the experience it produces in a reader.

Something about the word "spoilers" and this book seem to fit together rather well.

Here goes!!

Josh wrote: "Having read this one last year, I'm going to enjoy sitting on "the log" and watching where the discussion goes. My guess is that it will be quite polarizing as far as the experience it produces in ..."

I agree. I'll be sitting on the log next to you. I've read and reviewed it. However, I'm holding up posting my review in final impressions. We'll see how this one is received.

Mike

I really enjoyed Knockemstiff and am looking forward to this title.

I'm on the log with Mike and Josh on this one. I read it a couple of years ago and can't put myself through it again. But be warned: Once you start you have to finish, it's just that kind of book.

Diane wrote: "I'm on the log with Mike and Josh on this one. I read it a couple of years ago and can't put myself through it again. But be warned: Once you start you have to finish, it's just that kind of book."

Agree with Diane!

Yes, there is a Knockemstiff, Ohio. Considered a ghost town now, it is approximately eight miles from the home of Donald Ray Pollock who lives in Chillecothe, Ohio.

See "What's in a name? Ask Knockemstiff," Steven Rosen, New York Times, August 5, 2008: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/us/...


Knockemstiff, Ohio, circa 1950

Mike

Donald Ray Pollock On Finding Fiction Late In Life
August 17, 2012, NPR interview with the author about The Devil All the Time:

http://www.npr.org/2012/08/17/1589980...


Donald Ray Pollock

Mike

That was an interesting article. Pollack looks just like you imagine his characters to look.

Thanks for link. Very interesting! I worked at a poultry plant as a microbiologist before I became a stay at home wife and mom and plant life definitely exposes you to many different people and situations.

Laura wrote: "Thanks for link. Very interesting! I worked at a poultry plant as a microbiologist before I became a stay at home wife and mom and plant life definitely exposes you to many different people and sit..."

His Longaberger basket trades for sex in Knockemstiff is one of the funniest exchanges I have ever read. Humor intertwined with hyper-violence. Talented but not for everyone.

But unless you are familiar with Longaberger baskets it wouldn't be that funny. I remember my mom getting a holiday basket or a basket of the month. Was there a bartering system going on?

Laura wrote: "But unless you are familiar with Longaberger baskets it wouldn't be that funny. I remember my mom getting a holiday basket or a basket of the month. Was there a bartering system going on?"

A genuine Longaberger basket!

Mike wrote: "Laura wrote: "But unless you are familiar with Longaberger baskets it wouldn't be that funny. I remember my mom getting a holiday basket or a basket of the month. Was there a bartering system going..."

LOL, I'm visiting my family this week. I may have to take inventory of my mom's Longaberger baskets to get a sense of the "true story". I think my parents actually went to the head quarters in Ohio where the hotel or something is shaped like a basket.

Laura wrote: "Mike wrote: "Laura wrote: "But unless you are familiar with Longaberger baskets it wouldn't be that funny. I remember my mom getting a holiday basket or a basket of the month. Was there a bartering..."

I have not read either book but after reading Josh's comment I laughed because I keep a small Longaberger basket which holds all my reading glasses by my computer. I think I would like to read one of Pollock's books but I am not sure I am in the right mood at this time to handle the violence to which all of you have referred. Maybe at a later time. Is Knockemstiff as violent as The Devil All the Time?

Mike, thanks for the links. Even if I do not get to this read this month, I have still enjoyed reading the information from the links you have sent.

I have had The Devil All the Time on my shelf for some time and plan to read it this month. But, I have a question, what's the southern tie in?

It's set in Ohio, right?

Martin wrote: "I have had The Devil All the Time on my shelf for some time and plan to read it this month. But, I have a question, what's the southern tie in?

It's set in Ohio, right?"

Well they mention listening to country music a lot... does that count? (just kidding).

I'm enjoying this novel a lot! It's very hard for me to put down and actually work today. The writing is straight forward (almost a tad simplistic for me, but I'm in the mood for an easy read). I like most of the characters, I feel that they could be fleshed out a bit more though. From the other comments on the violence I was expecting a lot more, but I guess I am too desensitized from reading game of thrones.
I think I'll finish it tonight, can't wait to see how this one ends!

Martin wrote: "I have had The Devil All the Time on my shelf for some time and plan to read it this month. But, I have a question, what's the southern tie in?

It's set in Ohio, right?"

It's been a while since I read this but I think there is some travel into Virginia or West Virginia by some of the characters.

I see. Good enough...for who it's for.

Martin, it's essence is southern, so maybe that's the reason. Maybe it comes under the heading of "grit lit".

Martin wrote: "I see. Good enough...for who it's for."

Who would that be, Martin? Do you have a specific group in mind? I am on page 53, nearing the end of the first section. I am wondering, "Why am I reading this?"

I ask that of others. Why, pray tell? Maybe I am just not the prayer log and maggot type, or am I missing the bigger picture and symbolism?

A relatively well respected GR reviewer offered, "I think this book has the power to curdle milk at 50 yards."

Martin wrote: "I have had The Devil All the Time on my shelf for some time and plan to read it this month. But, I have a question, what's the southern tie in?

It's set in Ohio, right?"

Martin, the novel is set in Southern Ohio and West Virginia. Reviewers frequently compare the novel to the works of Flannery O'Connor, specifically on the premise that it is a novel where the characters are "Christ haunted."

Mike

Larry wrote: "Martin wrote: "I see. Good enough...for who it's for."

Who would that be, Martin? Do you have a specific group in mind? I am on page 53, nearing the end of the first section. I am wondering, "Why ..."

This is definitely a rough read. Both Josh and Laura cautioned readers of the nature of the book when it was nominated. We had a tie between The Devil All the Time and The Good Lord Bird. In the tie breaker poll, readers chose The Devil All the Time over The Good Lord Bird 36-25. You voted for this novel. Something must have drawn you to read it.

Pollock's awards and recognition speak for themselves.
Awards and honors

2009 PEN/Robert W. Bingham Prize, Knockemstiff, winner
2009 Devil's Kitchen Award in Prose (English Department of Southern Illinois University Carbondale), Knockemstiff
2012 Publisher's Weekly Top Ten Books of the Year, The Devil All The Time
2012 Guggenheim Fellowship
2012 Thomas and Lillie D. Chaffin Award for Appalachian Writing (for The Devil All the Time)
2012 Grand Prix de Litterature Policiere (French award for The Devil All the Time)
2013 Third Place International Category Deutscher Krimi Preis (German award for The Devil All the Time')
2013 First Place Prix Mystere de la Critique (for The Devil All the Time) (France)

Violence will continue through the course of the novel. Unfortunately we live in a violent world. There is no hiding from it. One always has the option of ignoring it.

Mike

Mike wrote: "Something must have drawn you to read it."

I have been drawn to read many books that are very new to me as a result of taking quite a few reading suggestions from this group. I am retired and have read a lot in my life but probably not as many "unknown" books as in the past few years. So I have often found myself trying to understand why a book receives a lot of praise as this book obviously has when I find it relatively unappealing at first take. One way I deal with that is by asking questions in the forums available in the group. It seems clear to me that everyone is not comfortable with aversive interactions in books or in discussions.

I can choose to take risks by reading books that are challenging or even offensive to me and commenting when I have things to say. I hope others will respond with their experience of this book. I assume you are not meaning "shut up" when you talk about the option of ignoring violence in literature. Acceptance of violence without thoughtful discussion is not an option I would select.

I do not believe in banning books or forbidding debate. I do believe in including and excluding books from my future reading based on my ability to understand and appreciate those books and/or authors. If possible I would like to have my thinking expanded about the books that we read here to help me make better future choices with my necessarily limited reading time.

I am not currently reading, but no doubt this one gets pretty gruesome. I remember reading it that my face contoured often, and my wife honestly had pulse raising panic set in with later sections of the book......she rated a 1 despite the fact she thought he was a great story teller based on the violence and lewdness. I rated a 5 based on his ability to craft such a vivid, crazy, but somehow believable story.

In the same way, McCarthy's Blood Meridian has some of the most disturbing imagery I could imagine, and for some there are a few points (the tree of dead babies) where they just can't continue. Others can read and later say it was one of the most moving/enjoyable books they have ever read.

Certainly neither are books I can "recommend" safely without knowing someone's reaction to hyper-violence, but I did enjoy where both these titles took me despite the gut wrenching parts.....others I respect highly can't get there and I certainly can see why. For the previous poster who asked about Knockemstiff and if it was less vile.......in my opinion, no- it is more intense as the short story format he gets right to his business and there is little break to the intensity.

Just for fun.......I may recommend this to the non-readers in my life who always ask before going to the beach "what should I read this summer?"......and then see if they ever speak to me again.

Larry wrote: "Mike wrote: "Something must have drawn you to read it."

I have been drawn to read many books that are very new to me as a result of taking quite a few reading suggestions from this group. I am ret..."

Let me be clear. I did not tell you to shut up. Next, we agree on two points. I do not believe in banning books or forbidding debate. You, Larry, have the option of ignoring the issue of violence in literature if the issue of violence upsets you by simply closing the book. I state that with your having written,

I am wondering, "Why am I reading this?"

I ask that of others. Why, pray tell? Maybe I am just not the prayer log and maggot type, or am I missing the bigger picture and symbolism?

You're a bit early in asking those questions if you haven't finished the book.

There is a link above to an interview with Pollock. You might find it beneficial. Additionally, here is a Reader's Guide to The Devil All the Time from Lit Lovers: http://www.litlovers.com/reading-guid....

As I recall you were once a Child Protective Services Worker. Surely you did not deny the violence and exploitation in our society. However, were you ever able to find a satisfactory answer to why these cases occurred?

Mike

Funny thing about knowing why you read a book. There's the why you pick up the book to read. But that's not why you read the book. You don't know the why until you finish reading.

Which touches on: what is reading?

Umberto Eco in his wonderful collection of essays Six Fictional Walks Through the Woods offers, among other things, that reading doesn't start until the first reread, kinda like writing doesn't start until the first editing pass.

Thanks all for your responses. I agree wholeheartedly it has that southern soul, but in flipping through it noticed it is set in Ohio, with some cultural exchanges with WestbygawdVirginia.

Mike, your responses to me often stir the pot. I appreciate that even if it is not always comfortable. I don't usually wait until I finish a book to start to ask questions about it and I think that asking those questions publicly is my way of asking others for their opinions. I am trying to understand why some people like this book so much or find it valuable even if they do not like it. I am still very much a work-in-progress when it comes to assessing my reaction to violence in literature. You and others in this group help me stretch in that arena but I am clearly still uncertain about wanting to go there! While my experience is colored by my emotional reaction, I try to get help from others in obtaining a rational outcome.

Martin wrote: "Funny thing about knowing why you read a book. There's the why you pick up the book to read. But that's not why you read the book. You don't know the why until you finish reading..."

There is also my question about why I decide to keep reading a book I am not necessarily enjoying to its conclusion. I might not get it until I have read the whole book. And I am afraid that sometimes it might take a second reading to really get it, something I very rarely do. I try to replicate the re-reading experience sometimes by making myself aware of spoilers so I can have a artificial repeat experience. My experimentation in reading is facilitated by understanding how others do it.

Larry - you bring up a good point. I am a slow reader (move my lips and all), so rereading in the traditional sense can cut into my reading time even if it does improve my understanding.

So, normally I read the beginning, end, then flip through the middle of fiction. In effect, the first page x page read is a second reading.

Well, we all knew this was going to create quite a discussion, and we're just getting started!!

I liked this book. Some things I didn't care for but it had a fitting ending. it was better than the McCarthy book we read a while back.
I didn't see this much discussion except for praise when we read the Wiley Cash book. that one really bothered me.

Allow me a brief whine. I am away from home for a few days and this is the only book I have with me! Egads!

Larry wrote: "Mike, your responses to me often stir the pot. I appreciate that even if it is not always comfortable. I don't usually wait until I finish a book to start to ask questions about it and I think that..."

Larry, consider the possibility that we are each adept at stirring the pot, particularly each other's kettle of soup.

Mike

No doubt, Mike!

Maybe I'll regret the decision. Maybe I'll have sleepless nights and depressed days in reaction to the violence, which bristles in the language from the first line, long before blood spurts. But the tension that warns of violence has hooked me. I'm doomed to follow the Devil to the end.

Nicely said Skipper!

Skipper, at the end of the day, even with the violence and the devil and all the other stuff, Pollack is one hell of a writer. I don't regret having read this one. I just don't want to read it again.

Diane wrote: "Skipper, at the end of the day, even with the violence and the devil and all the other stuff, Pollack is one hell of a writer. I don't regret having read this one. I just don't want to read it ag..."

Yes, his writing--frightening, gorgeous, energetic-- is what hooked me. An author to learn from, if I'm able to get enough slack to stop a moment and analyze how he's doing it.

Well, I guess I better weigh in since I nominated this bad boy.

I am about half way through, but initially I noticed the humor mixed with violence that someone else pointed out. In fact early on I thought this might be intended to be a black comedy, but soon realized there is real violence and tragedy and the humor is just mixed in. I find the Roy and Theodore line especially funny for the most part (no spoilers).

The other impression I had was that the Willard and Arvin line reminded me of The Wasp Factory by Iain Banks, another disturbing book.

I'm only half way through, but as someone else mentioned, I was expecting worse. Maybe I'm jaded.

Setting out for a hike in Harpers Ferry, WV and was going to take this book along as I rested at the top of the mountain but fortunately I read y'alls notes and think it best not to take it along. I have a vivid imagination and just might conjure up some banjo music playing in the background.

It'd be a good graveyard meditation depending on where you're stomping @ HF.

Personally, I would welcome the banjo music in comparison to what I experienced when reading the book.

Jeffrey wrote: "The other impression I had was that the Willard and Arvin line reminded me of The Wasp Factory by Iain Banks, another disturbing book.

I'm only half way through, but as someone else mentioned, I was expecting worse. Maybe I'm jaded. "

I hadn't thought of The Wasp Factory comparison, I'll have to mull that over. Factory was a pretty twisted book.

I must be jaded as well, I have not been overly shocked yet but I do read quite a bit of horror and crime fiction so I guess it's all relative.

My initial impression is to wonder whether this isn't part of a small sector of the publishing industry that could be labeled Post Blood Meridian.

There are a number of authors (William Gay, Jeffrey Lent, for instance) who directly benefit from Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian, which at its heart is a nihilist text, probably the most artistic expression of a nihilist perspective I've come across Notes from Underground not excepted.

While I've just started The Devil all the Time, I have flipped through it and I see a text that lacks BM's many shades of nihilism. It's well written. The characters are well drawn. But it is yet another book that exists in the shadow of Blood Meridian.

Martin wrote: "My initial impression is to wonder whether this isn't part of a small sector of the publishing industry that could be labeled Post Blood Meridian.

There are a number of authors (William Gay, Jeffr..."

An excellent observation, Martin. I agree with you. However, I would also add the influence of Flannery O'Connor.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. You're probably right. I am largely unfamiliar with her works. An obvious reading gap that could use some filling in.

Martin wrote: "My initial impression is to wonder whether this isn't part of a small sector of the publishing industry that could be labeled Post Blood Meridian."

I don't really have a To Be Re-read List but it looks like, if I did, Blood Meridian should be on it. Skimming my review, I see that I didn't much get it at the time. But it is clear that Cormac McCarthy is an Author Writ Large and demands some special attention. I am not ready to give Pollock such an august label yet. I am still laboring over him.

Larry et al,

I don't see Pollock's work as the equal of Cormac's.

It did occur to me earlier today while reading TDatT that there is more than a passing resemblance to Sherwood Anderson's Winesburg Ohio and its Book of the Grotesque.

Martin wrote: "Larry et al,

I don't see Pollock's work as the equal of Cormac's.

It did occur to me earlier today while reading TDatT that there is more than a passing resemblance to Sherwood Anderson's Winesbu..."

Agree with you Martin.....not as monumental certainly as Blood Meridian, or the Evening Redness in the West , and somehow I get that this one (TDatT) kinda just took shape as it was being written where I would think that Cormac had layers and layers of pre-calculated meaning stacked in. Characters like Judge Holden who for me seemed more "other worldly" than just a Bad Mama Jama like the thugs expressed in this one. It is certainly true that Pollock's not adverse to using violence the way Cormac does, and he tackles issues of Christ/salvation/sin/good vs. evil/freewill vs. predetermined fate- similar ingredients in the soup.

While no where near as violent, I agree with Mike that tones of O'Connor play in here- reminds me alot of Wise Blood although that text is more abstract and perhaps satirical when compared to the uber realistic approach used in this one. I liked all three- guess I'm in the sicko camp!