2017: Our Year of Reading Proust discussion

As we know, there is a wealth of ancillary materials on Proust (guides, adaptations, literary criticism, etc), and I'm wondering what other things folks have enjoyed or are planning to accompany their Proust projects with. I've included some of these on the Group's book shelf, and please feel encouraged to add items yourselves.

I'm currently reading Phyllis Rose's Year of Reading Proust, and have a few other add-ons waiting in the wings - the de Botton, and the Patrick Alexander guide that Dianne is also using. I'm also listening to a BBC dramatic adaptation of the books (from the Library) which is entertaining, and I'm guessing will give me a bit of the overall lay of the land, and I expect to listen to a few Proust lectures in the Modern Scholar "Giants of French Literature" audio course, also from the Library. Not to flog it to death, but I have often found a bit of guidance helpful, especially stepping into something that feels a little forbidding.

I think it's great to get into the background stuff before the new year! Does anyone have any Proust biographies they are reading or could recommend?

I read ISOLT with the 2014 group and would like to wish you all the best with Proust in 2017. I found reading to a schedule along with others was the best way to approach it. I'm not quite ready for a re-read yet but I will probably join in every now and then.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend reading anything beforehand, in fact it may be detrimental to your reading. You'll have to be careful using the Patrick Alexander book as it's really for people who've already read it. I did use the Paintings in Proust: A Visual Companion to In Search of Lost Time book but a lot of the paintings could be found on the internet.

Hey, thanks Jonathan! It sounds like any of us who are bent on accompanying our reading with various guides would be well advised to at least read stagger that so that we're having the exegesis after the reading itself: that seems appropriate. (And hey - it isn't exactly Finnegans Wake, we won't feel the need to read with a key handy).

Please drop by any time to chime in, reminisce, and find lost time.

For folks who are curious about some of the prior reading groups and maybe wanting to sample their discussions as you read, here's a 2013 group, here's a 2014 group, and here's a 2015 group.

On ancillary reading: I read Monsieur Proust when I read Proust this year. It was amusing to hear Celeste (she actually figured in S&G), his beloved servant, talk about him. She denies his homosexuality, but perhaps that's beside the point.

That's a good point David, you could also dip in to the previous years' Group discussions. I found the 2013 group was heavily into the arty side which I found useful. But don't get too bogged down with extra stuff as it's self-contained.

I ended up having both translations to hand as it was sometimes helpful to refer to another. The Penguin version has a lot of notes as well.

Glad to see that this is happening! I read all of Lost Time years ago and recently started re-reading with the new translations. Thanks for restarting the group, David.

Jonathan wrote: "I read ISOLT with the 2014 group and would like to wish you all the best with Proust in 2017. I found reading to a schedule along with others was the best way to approach it. I'm not quite ready fo..."

Like Jonathan, I was also a member of the 2014 group and, although I joined late (after my retirement in Sept '14), I enjoyed following the discussions as I went along and managed to catch up with the rest of the group before the end. This so inspired me that I then enrolled for the MOST fantastic Proust tour to Paris (and various other places mentioned in ISOLT, such as Illiers-Combray, Cabourg-Balbec, etc) under the expert guidance of Prof Bill Carter, Proust's biographer, together with his assistant and photographer, Nicolas Drogoul. I would highly recommend their website and online course to any would-be Proust readers:
http://www.proust-ink.com
Like Jonathan, I do not necessarily want to commit to a full re-read at this stage, although it's definitely on the agenda for the future. I would like to dip into the discussions from time to time, though, just to keep myself up to date. That's why I've decided to join this group.

Ben wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I read ISOLT with the 2014 group and would like to wish you all the best with Proust in 2017. I found reading to a schedule along with others was the best way to approach it. I'm n..."

wow that is so cool Ben! I hope you and Jonathan do drop in and share your thoughts as we plug along, it would be an honor!

Jonathan wrote: "I read ISOLT with the 2014 group and would like to wish you all the best with Proust in 2017. I found reading to a schedule along with others was the best way to approach it. I'm not quite ready fo..."

appreciate the tip on the alexander book jonathan! I will be careful. and I will check out paintings!

Dianne wrote: "Ben wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I read ISOLT with the 2014 group and would like to wish you all the best with Proust in 2017. I found reading to a schedule along with others was the best way to approa..."

Looking forward to meeting a whole new group of Proustians, Dianne. It feels strange to be treated almost like a 'veteran'.
;-)

Ben wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Ben wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "I read ISOLT with the 2014 group and would like to wish you all the best with Proust in 2017. I found reading to a schedule along with others was the bes..."

You are offically the Professional! We welcome your guidance :)

Dianne wrote: "You are officially the Professional!"
Thanks but no thanks, Dianne. That title belongs to Jonathan, who was one of the moderators of the 2014 group.

Very good Ben. Jonathan is the Professional :)

Jonathan wrote: "I read ISOLT with the 2014 group and would like to wish you all the best with Proust in 2017. I found reading to a schedule along with others was the best way to approach it. I'm not quite ready fo..."

Ditto for the reco for Paintings in Proust. I find it great to go to after finishing each volume or section. If you've read Proust before, guides and supplements are great. If it's your first time, I'd say the book doesn't need help, outside perhaps of a list of characters.

A lot of people get lost/frustrated the first time through with the beginning of the book, especially the Overture. This section is wonderful and completely understandable if you have already read Search, but puzzling/boring otherwise - seems like forty or fifty pages about a guy in bed. The the bulk of the book, Swan in Love, is a very traditional 3rd person love story. Don't worry, things will make sense soon enough.

Either Proust assumed everyone was going to re-read the book, or just wanted to slow the reader down and very gradually introduce the journey; it shouldn't bother or trouble you if you don't get it, or understand right away. (It is a search, after all). Once you finish the first volume you may say "not my cup of tea" but try not to struggle too much at first, just read the words.

Either Proust assumed everyone was going to re-read the book, or just wanted to slow the reader down and very gradually introduce the journey; it shouldn't bother or trouble you if you don't get it, or understand right away."

This is all good advice, thanks Dan.

I found that reading Proust helped me appreciate reading slowly. Compared to others I seem to be a slow reader but I had always seen this as a negative thing; with Proust it became a positive thing.

Mickey wrote: "On ancillary reading: I read Monsieur Proust when I read Proust this year. It was amusing to hear Celeste (she actually figured in S&G), his beloved servant, talk about him. She denie..." ooh: I see that NYRB Classics did a reprint of that. I'm a big fan of their line, and will not be able to resist adding this to my library.

Dan wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "his section is wonderful and completely understandable if you have already read Search, but puzzling/boring otherwise - seems like forty or fifty pages about a guy in bed..." One of my favorite books is OBLOMOV by Ivan Goncharov, which starts with over 100 pages of a guy in bed, so I'm ready!

David wrote: "One of my favorite books is OBLOMOV by Ivan Goncharov, which starts with over 100 pages of a guy in bed, so I'm ready!"

I loved Oblomov too. I keep meaning to re-read it. I hadn't thought of it before as Proust prep.

Re "a guy in bed." This was how his first attempt at a publisher failed. "I fail to see why anyone could be interested in 40 pages of how a man cannot sleep." (Heavily paraphrased). It was Andre Gide who rejected Proust in those words, and spent the rest of his life kicking himself.

And again. I love "Monsieur Proust," and one of my favorite parts is when Celeste says that she was not (at first) fond of reading. She would rather hemstitch pillow cases (oddly enough; I would regard that as a hellish torture!). Proust remedied this. Did he give her Mallarme, Rimbaud, Moliere, etc? No. He gave her "The Three Musketeers," which she loved! A lesson there for intellectuals.

Sigh. Must trouble everyone again. In the 2014 group, someone posted the way to put the diacritical marks so essential (as in typing Mallarme) to French names. Could we do that again? I had it written down but it is lost in the detritus of my desk...

Elizabeth wrote: "Sigh. Must trouble everyone again. In the 2014 group, someone posted the way to put the diacritical marks so essential (as in typing Mallarme) to French names. Could we do that again? I had it writ..."

It depends on what computer you're using. For me, on the Australian keyboard of Mac (I think the "Extended U.S. keyboard" also has it?), it's Option E for ´, Option I for ˆ, Option ~ for `, Option U for ¨, followed by whatever you want: Duchesse d'Uzès, Mme de La Trémoïlle, etc.

I don't know if it helps for Windows, though. . . .

Elizabeth wrote: "Sigh. Must trouble everyone again. In the 2014 group, someone posted the way to put the diacritical marks so essential (as in typing Mallarme) to French names. Could we do that again? I had it writ..."

I currently use a Windows PC and make use of the 'Character Map' which can be accessed from the Windows button and typing 'Character Map'. Rather than opening this up and finding and selecting the character I want each time I make use of the keystrokes that are on the bottom right-hand corner. I keep a file on my desktop with the ones I use most regularly, such as:
É Alt+0201
é Alt+0233
è Alt+0232
ë Alt+0235
ê Alt+0234
æ Alt+0230
â Alt+0226
ä Alt+0228
û Alt+0251
ü Alt+0252
î Alt+0238
í Alt+0237
ï Alt+0239
ô Alt+0244
ö Alt+0246
ç Alt+0231
à Alt+0224
á Alt+0225
— Alt+0151 (long dash)

I'm a big fan of Alt+0151. Don't even have to look it up.

Dan wrote: "I'm a big fan of Alt+0151. Don't even have to look it up."

Yes, I use it quite a lot as well. I can usually remember è & é as they're the most common and É as I wrote a lot about Émile Zola.

I'm looking forward to reading with all of you!

Rather a rebel here....

I read The Search by myself...innocently...the way Proust intended, without spoilers.
Then, stunned during those last pages, I immediately began re-reading Swann's Way...and never stopped.

The novel is almost a mystery, so I am fiercely biased against knowing what happens to the characters.

However, for those who think differently...spoilers everywhere below! I

1) My favorite site for finding characters:
André Vincens' Proust, ses personnages
http://proust-personnages.fr/?page_id...

2) 182 days of Reading Proust: Day-by-Day by Charles Matthews
http://proustproject.blogspot.com/p/d...

3) The Cork-Lined Room by Dennis Abrams
https://thecorklinedroom.wordpress.co...

4) Reading Proust for Fun by Renee (in progress)
https://readproust.blogspot.com/2009_...

5) A classic on Swann's Way : Antoine Compagnon's 2013 lecture series, with English voice-over.
Collège de France~Antoine Compagnon's Proust 1913

Update:

6) BBC Radio program "Swann's Way: The Essay, Paris 1913"

1913 marks an extraordinary year in Paris. Momentous events occurred in literature, music and the visual arts. In the first of four essays looking at this annus mirabilis for French and European culture, Professor Michael G Wood of Princeton University explores the publication of Marcel Proust's "Swann's Way," a novel that marked a turning point in the relationship between a writer and his characters. BBC

Dramatic/major music and character spoilers discussed in this excellent radio essay: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pmfj9

For those able to follow French audio, I stumbled across this video a few months ago and found it wonderful. It follows ten or twelve French readers of Proust as they explain why they love reading the Recherche. Marcel Proust, du côté des lecteurs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9jSJ...

Prousty101 wrote: "For those able to follow French audio, I stumbled across this video a few months ago and found it wonderful. It follows ten or twelve French readers of Proust as they explain why they love reading ..."

Fateful stumble. ;)

Listen for one reader:
Nathalie Mauriac-Dyer, the great-great niece of Proust.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v9jSJor...

Her mother, Marie Claude Mauriac, was a daughter of Robert Proust's only child, Adrienne or "Suzy."

Nathalie is a Proust scholar at ITEM: http://www.item.ens.fr/index.php?id=1...

Example of her brilliance...a must for Proust scholars:
http://books.openedition.org/editions...

Marcelita wrote: "Prousty101 wrote: "For those able to follow French audio, I stumbled across this video a few months ago and found it wonderful. It follows ten or twelve French readers of Proust as they explain why..."
wow. awesome! thank you!

http://proustproject.blogspot.com/p/d...

I found this blog (it was written in 2010) and am enjoying it as an adjunct to my reading.

Oh! I do hope I am not a bother to anyone . I definitely hope I do not get on your nerves by typing improperly . I just love to read and have such a passion for stories that are classics all over the world . The language I learned in College was a Romantic Language , Spanish but not close enough to French for me . The verb conjugations are really not even close. I read better than I can speak but I am afraid it has been years since I have spoken or used the languages . I also have an Apple MAC computer because I believe in security of the highest form since I was severely hacked and stalked a couple of years ago and YES , it does happen . Use gmail , Apple , Mac , and complicated passwords no matter how inconvenient it all may seem . If you hate Apple because they have taken there technology overseas just think, it is that or my life . I lost all access to my money , was stranded in a strange town and my car caught on fire and I pulled over right before it burned up . I went over a year with no technology and the law had not yet caught up to the fact that these things happen . With a little online research and just talking with people who service computers you find out how easy it is to get into get anything they want . A bit off subject but please take heed and protect yourself .
I might not be the best typist it user of code but I can tell you about malware and phishing and keystroking to get your secrets .

Enough ~ I am really excited about Proust and I do hope to start talking soon about what makes him so special . Nice to meet you all.
Please friend me , I am a Southerner in Oxford , MS home to my Ole Miss and William Faulkner . We also have many other famed writers , musicians , painters, and artists of different talents down South in our beautiful state that might make Proust want to visit !
Sincerely ,
Dawn

Dawn: I always remember that Faulkner character who--one of his relatives says--loves to tell people he "went to Oxford"--meaning the one in England! And enjoys their subsequent confusion/embarrassment.

Elizabeth ~ you know Oxford, England being our sister city we have bought three red English Double Decker buses for tours and general transportation for events we have all year round . Each spring we have our annual Double Decker Bus Festival: crafts, art, food, music , children's activities, petting zoos , the buses run all day long ! The festival is all weekend too! On Sundays after church they have lunch and gospel singers ! It is a large celebration! You would just love it here .
Sincerely ,
Dawn

This is a problem (sort of) w/ the Moncrieff translation (tho I love it); it is full of Britspeak that one has to mentally translate. Also, as I've previously remarked, Moncrieff has a tendency to...censor...some of the earthier passages, both in the Overture, "Sodom and Gomorrah" and "The Prisoner." He's still great, tho.

PS I love the Mississippi Mass Children's Choir.

The only known film footage (believed to be) of Proust was recently discovered in Paris. The man briefly passes through at :34 in this video. He's wearing a light coat and bowler. It's not definitive but it's an intriguing possibility.

Jacob wrote: "The only known film footage (believed to be) of Proust was recently discovered in Paris. The man briefly passes through at :34 in this video. He's wearing a light coat and bowler. It's not definiti..."

Although it would be thrilling for it to be Proust, circumstantial evidence points in the other direction.

The film is not congruent with the authentic photos within a year of the 1904 wedding, his health the month before (too ill to attend another friend's wedding), and his knowledge of clothing etiquette.
http://www.marcelproust.it/gallery/pr...

Could that healthy-looking young man, jauntily bounding down the steps, obviously underdressed for the aristocratic-society wedding of his dear friend, Armand, really be the fashion-conscious dandy and recently ill Marcel Proust?

Armand, Proust's dear friend, obviously would have seen this expensively filmed documentation of his own wedding, agreed?

Thus, it's curious that when the famous 1962 Proust documentary of Proust was being made, in which Armand, the duc de Gramont, was a contributor, he didnt alert the director that he had access to the only exclusive film footage of his dear friend, Marcel Proust.
https://poleproust.hypotheses.org/393

Off topic. But must be said, despite being--ghasp--heresy. I've noticed a certain...paucity of comments and fear that many of you are getting totally bogged down. Here's what you do (please don't excoriate me!): SKIP STUFF. This is how to read for enjoyment; if you get bored, mired up, etc., just start turning pages until a word catches your eye, you see quotation marks, etc. Really. Try it.

Hey Guys! I have just joined the group so sorry if answers to my question have already been provided, but is there a specific translation that is preferred?

Also off topic. Rather than skipping, maybe skimming or Fast reading would be another approach. There is no reason to be frustrated, but there is also no reason to slowly read and try to understand every single thing that is going on. For me, just keep reading - even when you get a bit lost just go on ahead and you'll find your way to a section or character that gets you back in the swing of things.

Khashayar: the classic translation is Scott Moncrieff; it's quite good, but reading new translations (and there are several good ones) I think Moncrieff took rather a few liberties w/ Proust's prose. What a daredevil! All of us seem to be reading different ones, or a couple at the same time.

Elizabeth wrote:
message 14: by Elizabeth Feb 22, 2017 04:07AM

Combray church. Proust was raised a Catholic (altho by Talmudic law he was Jewish--"If your mother is a Jew, then you are a Jew"--and he kept up w/ his mother's family all his life). However, he never seemed to evince the slightest interest in any religion...he kind of separates spirituality from architecture...

An excerpt from " THE GENIUS OF JUDAISM" by
BERNARD-HENRI LÉVY.

"Beyond the clues in the work and in the life, we know that he was a reader of the Zohar: 'See the Zohar,' he records in one of the note- books that are the diary of his creation; 'see the Zohar,' he writes, to learn how to 'break the spell that holds things prisoner,' to 'haul them close to us,' and 'keep them from falling back forever into nothingness.' One thinks, he is thinking, he cannot not be thinking, when writing that, of the Kabbalah of Isaac Luria, of his theory of the sparks bottled up in the earth’s crust and of their rise and redemption in the messianic light of intelligence, which is the only thing that can check the enchanted nothingness that is evil."
BHL
http://lithub.com/the-genius-of-judaism/

Marcelita wrote: "Elizabeth wrote:
message 14: by Elizabeth Feb 22, 2017 04:07AM

Combray church. Proust was raised a Catholic (altho by Talmudic law he was Jewish--"If your mother is a Jew, then you are a Jew"--an..."

For those gardeners, who enjoy finding "weeds:" ;)

"Zohar" mentions in Proust's notebooks.

1)
This from Carnet 1 (ends on 41v)

"To be added to my conception of art in the last part.
That which occurs however obscurely at the depths of consciousness, before being realized in a work, it is necessary before bringing it out into the open it is necessary to make it traverse an intermediary region between our subconscious and our exterior, our intelligence, but how to lead it there, how to apprehend it. One may spend hours trying to bring back the first impression, the ungraspable sign that gave that impression and which said: fathom my depths, without summoning it back, without forcing its return to us. And that is what all art is, it is the only art. The only thing worth expressing is that which has become visible in the depths and usually, except for when illuminated by light, or in moments of exceptional clarity and animation, these depths are obscure.This depth, this inaccessibility to us is the only token of their value - at the same time as a certain joy. It matters little what it is about. A church steeple that is imperceptible during the day has more value than a complete theory of the world.
Look in the large excercise book arrival in front of the Campanile. - and also Zohar."

Marcel Proust (found and translated by Chris Taylor)

-Cover (Tall Kirby), you can page through the carnet:
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1...
-Page 41v (half way down): http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1...

2)
Titre : Fonds Marcel Proust. II — À LA RECHERCHE DU TEMPS PERDU. A — Manuscrits autographes. XXXI-XCII Soixante-deux cahiers de brouillons comportant des ébauches des différentes parties de la Recherche à divers stades de leur rédaction. XXXI-XXXVII Contre Sainte-Beuve. NAF 16645
Date d'édition : XIXe-XXe s.
Sujet : Dessins. Marcel Proust
Sujet : Moreau, Gustave
Type : manuscrit
Langue : français
Format : 114 f. (13, 19, 46-47, 55, 68-103 blancs ; 104v-115v tête-bêche.)
Description : Contient : Pastiche d'Henri de Régnier (début et fin) ; Gérard de Nerval ; Esquisses de Françoise ; Les Guermantes ; Notes sur Gustave Moreau ; Moreau, Gustave, membre de l'Institut, peintre. Note(s) le concernant ; Fragment sur Padoue et Vérone ; Journées ; Sommeils
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1...

Translation of page 53v: "Zohar" (Cahier 5 (NAF 16645) 53v)

"Zohar"
"This name has remained caught within my hopes of that time, it gathers [?] around itself the atmosphere of the time I lived then, wind brightened by sunshine as it was, the ideas that I was forming for myself about Ruskin and Italy. Italy holds fewer of my dreams than this name that dwelt within it. Here we have names, things are not names, things, as soon as we think them they become ideas, they take their place in the series of ideas from that time and blend themselves with them, and this is why Zohar has become something analogous to the idea I had of the place whilst gazing at the turbulent sky, thinking that I was going to see Venice."
Marcel Proust (Translated by Chris Taylor, Cahier 5 (NAF 16645, 53v.)
Page 53v : http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1...

Salut mes amis... Je suis seulement sur "Du côté chez Swann", mais j'éprouve beaucoup de difficulté à suivre Proust dans son language élaboré. Comment est-ce que vous parveniez à comprendre ses nuances et ces ondulations?

!!! I had sort of...given up on the group; figured everyone had gotten bogged down...so glad to see some comments. I threw the schedule out the door and just began reading steadily; almost through with "Time Regained." And: XXxXxetc: how do I understand his prose? (And I must tell you that "Swann's Way" is by far the easiest read--sigh; one critic says that Proust wanted to prove he could write a convention novel, but after that...). My question: how cognizant are you of English? I can read French, haltingly and slowly, with my Petit Larousse to hand...

Well Elizabeth, my English is pretty good... I was just wondering if anyone here had read Proust in French and would give me some advice. Is Swann's Way really the EASIEST of all 7? If so, what makes the other volumes more difficult?

Well, "Swann's Way" is a conventional novel--a love story, with a beginning, a middle, and an end. The subsequent volumes leave Swann abruptly and begin to deal with the vicissitudes of the narrator's life, and the conventional "story line" of traditional novels is discarded.

Not that they're not totally worth it! Again, my advice to all who get bogged down: skip stuff! If you become bored or comatose, begin leafing through pages until you see a word that interests you. My ploy: look for proper names, quotation marks, new paragraphs. Now, I know this is heresy, but remember, you are reading for your own pleasure; you won't have to write a paper on it! And...my experience...upon rereading, you'll catch a lot of what you missed the first (or tenth) time. True art, great art, bears repetition.

Dear Elizabeth ~ I do admit I started off very ambitious about this reading journey! I did not think I was going to make it through his childhood for a bit until Swann entered ! I do have to admit I am so far behind our reading schedule but I will not let Proust bore me ! He is known as the greatest for some reason and I intend to discover the mystery in my own point of view .

Knowledge is a pursuit I never become to weary to follow. Sometimes I find myself a bit impatient and anxious. The process of living everyday and interacting among others is exactly the same way -- such is life -- as they say ! This is one main reason I read . I learn so much . Knowledge is light and light can help you find your way in the darkest of darkness.

So I am still out here with you ! I have just had many doctors and things to take care of with my parents with cancer ! They are a bundle of love and joy ! I just find myself retreating at times to rest and read . I do so enjoy my book groups . I miss all of you and have to see what you are up too! I see you are way ahead of me so far !
You know what might be fun ? If someone had the time to do a fun quiz maybe just for Swann 's Way to just laugh and see where we all are! We can cheat you know ! HA! I often see the quizzes in some of my other groups and take them for fun !

What do you think? Or should we stay laid back ? I am fine either way ! Love to hear from you . I will tell you some of my favorite bits next time I write . I don't want to spoil it for anyone else !

Dawn