Science Fiction Aficionados discussion

What books must a person read in order to be an informed Science Fiction fan?

When I was a kid, one of my teachers said, "You like Science Fiction? You're not really a fan unless you've read Dune, Fahrenheit 451, and Stranger in a Strange Land." It's a debatable list, but the idea is that it's hard to form an opinion about Science Fiction in general or particular books within the genre without having read certain foundational texts.

Fast forward several decades. Now, on the internet, I discover people who say The Hunger Games is a SF classic, but they haven't read 1984. To me, that undermines their authority a little bit.

So my question is: What are the essential texts that one must read to be an informed SF reader? Not, the best, not your favorites, just the ones that provide the necessary background for understanding the genre.

I do like the classics to some degree and I enjoyed the books that your teacher recommended. However, your question is a bit different.

"To be an informed science fiction fan in different genres?".

In my Unprofessional opinion.

For Robotics, Isaac Asimov,
The Complete Robot

For future technology: Neal Stephenson
The Diamond Age: or, A Young Lady's Illustrated Primer

For Environmental future: Paolo Bacigalupe
The Windup Girl

For Cyber Punk: William Gibson
Neuromancer

For deep space adventure: Larry Niven
Ringworld

For Science fiction humor; Douglas Adams
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

For Political/Social: Robert Heinlein
Starship Troopers
This is not just a bug hunt book, but observe the political structure of the background story.

There are more but , enough for a start.
In my Unprofessional opinion.

I've been enthusiastically pursuing the probably unobtainable goal of becoming an informed science fiction fan for forty years or so.

I like Mickey's themic choices and from a purely personal viewpoint would throw in:

Frankenstein by Mary Shelley as debatably the progenitor of all modern SF.
The Forever War by Joe Haldeman for so many reasons I wouldn't know where to start.
And
The City and the Stars by Arthur C. Clarke so as to include one of the founding fathers of 'Sense of wonder' SF.

All that said, as you can probably tell I don't personally think you can really understand the genre from just a handfull of works. If you're serious about becoming a more informed SF fan then working your way through something like Science Fiction: The 100 Best Novels : An English-Language Selection, 1949-1984 is a good starting point for what could now be considered classic or old SF and there's even a sequel with suggestions for more modern examples.

Juniper Green wrote: "In addition to the book Richard posted, The Classics of Science Fiction offers an extensive list of, well, classic science fiction, including about everything that's been mentioned here..."

What a fantastic resource Juniper Green.

At a single sweep you've just added 26 books to my urgent TBR pile. Admittedly some were already on my TBR mountain but some I'd not even heard of.

The comparison of versions 1 to 4 is especially enlightening and the stories that appear on all four lists (56 in total, 7 of which I've not read) would definitely appear to be an excellent answer to Phil's original post.

Juniper Green wrote: "In addition to the book Richard posted, The Classics of Science Fiction offers an extensive list of, well, classic science fiction, including about everything that's been mentioned here.
https://cl..."

Thanks, Juniper Green, that's the best SF list I've ever seen. I've been trying to cobble together the same type of list using the NPR list, the WWE list, the Locus list, etc., but the people who did the list you posted did it right.

Really, though, 100 list is more than what I need for practical purposes. I asked my opening question because of two situations that I encounter fairly often.

1. A member of a non-Sci Fi book group opens a review by saying, "I hate Sci Fi, but I actually liked [The Martian, Handmaid's Tale, etc.]" I'd love to respond that you can't say you hate Sci Fi until you give these five or so books a try.

2. I teach middle school. Often, a student tells me they love Sci Fi, but I notice that they read nothing but Piers Anthony or Orson Scott Card. I'd love to steer them with, "These five or so books are the basics of the genre. After you read these, you'll have some idea of what Sci Fi has to offer."

So far, I think Mickey's thematic approach makes the most sense for my needs, although I might challenge some of his choices.

SF is really much too broad a genre to even come to a conclusive list. So, like Mickey points out, it would be much more instructive to do lists of the subgenres ... cyberpunk, space opera, NEW space opera, social SF, etc.

I'm too lazy to do that, though!

Phil wrote: "So far, I think Mickey's thematic approach makes the most sense for my needs, although I might challenge some of his choices."

Shields Up, Red Alert!

Mickey wrote: "Shields Up, Red Alert!"

Ha!

The one I wonder about the most is Ringworld. I know it's considered a classic by many, but I don't think it really captures the possibilities of "deep space adventure," which I'm interepreting as "space opera." The book I've read that does that best is A Fire Upon the Deep, or maybe Hyperion. Or maybe Dune, although that one sticks pretty close to one planet.

I'm also kind of wondering about The Diamond Age and Windup Girl, mostly because I haven't read them. Specifically, I'm wondering what aspect of the genre they represent better than other books cover.

I like the way Mickey laid out the genres. And right now, I'm looking at three bookcases full of hardbounds and paperbacks--all SF--all on my "to read" list. So I'll just say, "if you want to be an informed SF fan, you have to delve into the genres, decide what you like best (bearing in mind that your tastes will change with time), and read more of that.

Phil wrote: "Really, though, 100 list is more than what I need for practical purposes. I asked my opening question because of two situations that I encounter fairly often.

1. A member of a non-Sci Fi book grou..."

Even with Juniper Green's excellent list and narrowing it down to just the longstanding favourites still leaves 56 must reads, which I suppose I'll have to admit is still rather too much for your purpose.
After having a read around Juniper Green's website they seem to land on 2 seminal books as being the most remembered and best candidates for being true classics. They are :

The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin and
Dune by Frank Herbert.

Understanding that no list can ever be truly authoritative or representative leaves a lot of room for personal preference but the works so far suggested do appear to be a very good mix of quality science fiction (whatever that is).

Phil wrote: "Mickey wrote: "Shields Up, Red Alert!"

Ha!

The one I wonder about the most is Ringworld. I know it's considered a classic by many, but I don't think it really captures the possibilities of "deep ..."

You are correct. My first thought was also "A Fire Upon The Deep". However I felt it was not a stand alone book, but part of a trilogy. At the time of my first posting, I was hard pressed to think of a stand alone book on deep space travel in which was also a popular book. Thus "Ringworld".

However Richard's suggestion of The Forever War by Joe Haldeman would fit nicely I think.

Ringworld has the unique ring structure with its physics.
Forever War with time dilation.

Phil wrote: "I'm also kind of wondering about The Diamond Age and Windup Girl, mostly because I haven't read them. Specifically, I'm wondering what aspect of the genre they represent better than other books cover."

Those two books I believe are the most probable of becoming reality, in terms of current technology. Looking to the classics on technology has either become real or got it all wrong and might turn off a new reader.

In my Unprofessional opinion.

Phil wrote: "I asked my opening question because of two situations that I encounter fairly often.

1. A member of a non-Sci Fi book group opens a review by saying, "I hate Sci Fi, but I actually liked [The Martian, Handmaid's Tale, etc.]"

2. I teach middle school. Often, a student tells me"

I would be very wary about recommending books to kids without reading them first.

I can understand why people will like the movie "The Martian" and hate science fiction. In my Unprofessional opinion, it has to do with a persons religious beliefs.

The Martian does not step on "God's toes". Nothing in the book or movie that I know of would counter most religions (some profanity).

Robert Heinlein (depending on the book) on the other hand steps all over religion: tattoos, same sex marriages, polygamy and more.

Other topics would be evolution and climate change. Political societies that may counter their religious beliefs would also deter people from enjoying certain aspects of science fiction.

Now, I've done it. Shields Up, Red Alert and take evasive maneuvers.

Richard wrote: "Phil wrote: "Really, though, 100 list is more than what I need for practical purposes. I asked my opening question because of two situations that I encounter fairly often.

1. A member of a non-Sci..."

I would agree with those two as a general consensus yet having read both, about 25 years ago, I have to admit that while I still think about concepts in Dune I will have to reread 'Left Hand' because I can barely remember what it is about.

Mickey wrote: "I would be very wary about recommending books to kids without reading them first."

Absolutely! Typically, I guide my less advanced students toward books written for their demographic (The Giver and The House of the Scorpion) and my older students toward some of the less scandalous classics (Dune and Ray Bradbury). Still, when I talk about the genre, I want to have the topic as a whole in the back of my mind and not just the bits I won't get in trouble over.

Of course the problem with such list is that when works you feel should be on the list aren't there you end up questioning the validity of the list.

When I was in middle school, my English teacher got upset when she caught me reading science fiction as it was "not appropriate for a young lady".

Kirsten *Don't Be A Grinch* wrote: "When I was in middle school, my English teacher got upset when she caught me reading science fiction as it was "not appropriate for a young lady"."

Maybe she didn't want you to figure out she was time-travelling from the 1800s.

Did she look like this?


Maybe she was hiding something.

The best part of Christmas next week is the Doctor Who Christmas show. I will be eating Christmas dinner leftovers during the show. I will make Fish Sticks and Custard when the regular Doctor Who series starts up again next year.

In my old and decrepit age, I think Missy is hot.

In middle school, I was reading mostly comic books like Mad Magazine. I read mostly Andy Hardy mystery books and other books from those scholastic pamphlet that the school handed out. Therefore I was mentally safe then.

When I was in high school, I worked at the local public library as a Page (sorting books and putting them back on shelves). That is when I discovered the Science Fiction section and became a fan of SF. Also I discovered the restricted section where my eyes popped out and went temporarily blind.

With the exception of 1984, which I think is essential reading for any human, I don't think it's possible to come up with a definitive list of works one "should" read. It's too much like school reading lists which, let's face it, usually turned us off rather than on.

I think it might be better to just name authors and let people find whatever interests them.

Often these lists are dependent on who is compiling them. Different people have different ideas of what Sci-Fi should be and the books they recommend will reflect that. Looking at the brief bigraphy of Darko Suvin suggests that his list would different from most of us (after all he doesn't consider Star Wars to be science fiction.

John wrote: "Often these lists are dependent on who is compiling them. Different people have different ideas of what Sci-Fi should be and the books they recommend will reflect that. Looking at the brief bigraph..."

That's where Juniper Green's 'Classics of Science Fiction' resource is so usefull. It's a clever compilation of 65 different lists only containing works that appear on at least 10 of those lists. It also has some useful cross-references of the four different versions of the list produced in the four decades from the 1980's. So personal preference of a particular type of science fiction should be smoothed out.

@John, Darko Suvin is certainly not on their own when they consider 'Star Wars' to be Fantasy rather than Science Fiction, with some rather reasonable arguments for it too.
Personally I'm rather relaxed about the whole Star Wars is or isn't thing and am perfectly happy to leave it to everyone's personal preference.

Suvin's argument is based on the idea of cognitive estrangement and if that isn't present the work is not SF.

Thanks, Juniper, for posting that link. There are lots of worthy books on the list, and there are plenty that I have never even heard of but sound intriguing.

Phil wrote: "Did she look like this?"

If she looked like that, would you please introduce me?

Dan wrote: "Phil wrote: "Did she look like this?"

If she looked like that, would you please introduce me?"

You can introduce yourself Christmas Eve this Saturday starting at 1pm on the BBC America channel. There is a "Doctor Who" marathon that is going on now through Christmas. Missy introduces herself at 1pm and a few episodes following.

Currently watching "The impossible planet". Season 2 Episode 8.

Juniper Green wrote: "The Classics of Science Fiction offers an extensive list of, well, classic science fiction, https://classicsofsciencefiction.com/"

Interesting list, Juniper. I don't accept its choices, but enjoyed reading the list over. The main problem I have with the list is that it distinctly overvalues works written before 1975. I love SF classics. Over half my reading in SF is pre-1975, but I would never make a classics list with about 3/4 being pre-1975.

My other problem with the list is the placement of some of the titles. Dune is a good novel, top 20 maybe, but #1? I don't think so.

I have a major problem with the choice for #2. I have professionally edited four fiction works for publication, two in the SF genre, a thriller, and a horror novel. If #2 A Canticle for Leibowitz came to me as a manuscript I had to edit, I would cry. The writing was so horrid I had to stop reading and put it down within a few pages. It would take me months to fix it. The book is so badly written from an English standpoint that virtually every sentence would have to be rewritten. Paragraphs would need to be restructured to place thoughts in logical progression, have topic sentences, etc. I can't believe the work was ever published, much less voted for anything. Here's one randomly selected sentence, just to provide an example: "There was no shade amid the cluster of mounds where a group of age-old buildings once had been, but some of the larger stones could, nevertheless, provide cooling refreshment to select portions of the anatomy for travelers as wise in the way of the desert as the pilgrim soon proved himself to be." So, how do stones that cast no shadow provide cooling refreshment? I swear, every sentence is this execrable! Don't take my word for it though, gird your loins and read the text for yourself: https://7chan.org/lit/src/A_Canticle_...
At the point where Brother Francis released the crucifix with a small amen I closed the book with a big holy shit and returned it to the library. And the list rates this book the #2 best SF book of all time? Please!!!

Ender's Game coming in at #15 is ludicrously low. That's no surprise; it was written in 1985 and is therefore undervalued due its relative newness. Ender's Game deserves to be #1 in my opinion not only because the story is so engaging and archetypal of the SF field as a whole, but Card is a master craftsman at writing. Every sentence he writes is necessary. He has no narrative voice intruding and distracting, and each word of a sentence is the right word that advances the purpose of the story. I also really identify with Ender and think many other SF readers would also have been like Ender as a boy, or at least want to see themselves that way.

To get back to the original question, slightly paraphrased: what should one read to best become acquainted with science fiction in the briefest amount of time? I recommend starting with the best short stories written by the founding fathers of SF. Luckily this has been collected for us in one series: The Science Fiction Hall of Fame: Volume 1. I'd go on with that series to read the novellas volumes too. Then, I really think you have to read the five H.G. Wells classics (The Time Machine, The Island of Dr. Moreau, The Invisible Man, The War of the Worlds, The First Men in the Moon). Reading all this will quickly give you a solid grounding of what SF has been built upon.

To modernize, as Mickey suggests, and I second the suggestion, you really have to specialize in the sub-genre that most interests you, be it time travel, alternate history, space opera, or some of the ones she suggests. SF is just too wide to read every sub-genre at once.

I myself approached modern science fiction through the sub-genre of Military SF. I loved Star Trek, so this was a natural expansion for me. Here is an article I came across recently that describes how best to jump into the military SF sub-genre, if you are interested: http://www.unboundworlds.com/2016/12/...

Dan wrote: "Juniper Green wrote: "The Classics of Science Fiction offers an extensive list of, well, classic science fiction, https://classicsofsciencefiction.com/"

Interesting list, Juniper. I don't accept i..."

A Canticle for Leibowitz is one of my all-time favorite books, although I wouldn't recommend it to everybody. As you point out, the prose can be difficult. I thought Miller was trying to convey something about the characters' thought processes with his writing style. It changes a bit between the three parts. I recall it being hardest to follow in the part where the characters are attempting to understand a blueprint. In the sentence you mention, I assumed that the characters were leaning against the cool side of the rocks.

OSC has a very clean prose style, and it makes his writing very accessible. I'm a fan of Ender's Game, but I also enjoy books with more stylized prose, such as Fahrenheit 451.

Phil wrote: "As you point out, the prose can be difficult."

That's not what I pointed out. The only difficulty in Miller's prose is that the bad writing makes it harder than necessary to comprehend his meaning. His prose is amateurishly pretentious, or purple, to use the more technical term. http://grammar.about.com/od/pq/g/purp...

I am not trying to say all must dislike Canticle. If there is a good story hiding behind that writing, and there very well may be, the summary of the novel certainly sounds intriguing enough that I gave it a go, my sincere congratulations to your tolerance in being able to enjoy it.

Nevertheless, as a science fiction lover I'm embarrassed this novel is considered the second best SF novel of all time.

sounds like this book made you angry!

I loved it but then it has been a while since I read it so I can't really defend it as passionately as you are attacking it. what I don't recall though is "purple prose." I rather enjoy that style, as amateurish and cringe-worthy as it can be. Canticle never struck me as having that sort of overtly ornate or baroque style, or the escalated emotions I usually associate with that style. your example doesn't strike me as purple prose - not even remotely. but it is illogical and awkwardly written, I will give it that.

I recall back in the seventies many SF fans considered this book to be one of the greatest sci-fi novels. Indeed the book appeared on many lists of the top stf. novels. So obviously the wrting style did not put many people off. I daresay that this may be a matter of personal preferences.

The loin girders are in the majority!

ha!

Dune was what got me, made me a fan. I'll stand by Dune all day long. I'm slowly making my way through more Classics - I loved Hyperion and want to read the whole thing. I'm a big Clark fan but not Asimov - his writing leaves me cold. The Hunger Games are not must read books. If they are still around in 100 years then maybe they'll be Classics too.

In the spirit of the original question in this set of posts, I'd offer this selection as near to a must read to establish part of the genre and its resultant themes over the past century:

R.U.R. by Karel Čapek.

Here there be robots. Čapek presents the reader with a number of elements for many of the robot based SF that continues to this day.

Two more early works that set themes that are part of the SF genre are:

The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by
Robert Louis Stevenson
and
Twenty thousand leagues under the sea by
Jules Verne

The later by Verne is a story so Disneyfied in many versions that it loses much of it importance. While difficult to find a 'good' version in English it is not impossible.

Both of these later two books set the pace for a number of story lines and even sub genres in the decades (now a century or more) to come. While none of the three works are as prominent or as well received, they are definitely part of the world of SF in its infancy.

Solaris by Stanisław Lem I encourage as part of the SF literature to be consumed for a larger view of the whole topic of humanity in this realm.

At one time Lem was widely read, but more recently it seems that films based on his work have been viewed in preference.

Sad. Another great Polish writer who isn't read.

I would have to say that Spinward Fringe Broadcast 0: Origins The Spinward Fringe would be a MUST read for anyone looking to get into Space Opera and have no idea where to start.

Dan wrote: "So, how do stones that cast no shadow provide cooling refreshment? I swear, every sentence is this execrable!...

...I loved Star Trek,..."

Ha! Had you applied the same rigor to Star Trek as you did to that sentence from Canticle you might not have like it so much!"

];P

I haven't read Canticle but that sentence gave me no problem. To me, as someone above said, it implies that leaning on large stones (which hadn't yet picked up the heat of the day) would offer relief ... "to select portions of the anatomy..." I.e., it didn't even cool ALL of them like shade would, but only the parts of their bodies actually ON the rocks. There's no logical error, and I don't see any grammatical error, nor do I see any purple prose.

Seems to me you just read it with your editor's hat on and couldn't get absorbed in the mood that the language presented. And it's an old book. Dune also is an old book and I've got problems with it which are age related. But ultimately still liked the book.

Plus, as you said, you came into SF via military SF and I'm a firm believer that our first loves in any experience colors our tastes for the rest of our lives: books, music, sport, food ... it's all very subjective and deeply tied to what excited us about it in the first place.

And as for lists not agreeing with our tastes ... I EXPECT that. Heck, I can't square my tastes in SF with even my closest friends who also read a mostly SF. We like some stuff the same, but more than not completely disagree on most books. And we can't predict what each other will like. So why should I expect some random list of Best Of X to match my own taste?

So much subjective, so little time.

The Reality Dysfunction

John wrote: "Of course the problem with such list is that when works you feel should be on the list aren't there you end up questioning the validity of the list."

I actually question the validity of the premise. Why do there always have to be lists of 'books you must read'?

Esther wrote: "I actually question the validity of the premise. Why do there always have to be lists of 'books you must read'? "

This is a philosophical question entire books have been written about, Harold Bloom's being foremost. Every genre has its canon. The christian Bible includes some books and deliberately omits others. You can't be considered erudite on Western culture without some familiarity with the canonical work Dante contributed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western...

Likewise, fiction genres and subgenres have their own canon. Some canons are huge, like the one I just provided a link above to on the whole of classical western literature. African-American literature, a subgenre, is smaller though still quite large. Other canons are in development and therefore rather small. The New Weird subgenre, for example, is still being defined. I borrowed a list of 75 works an expert on the field provided, made a GoodReads list of it, and since then 39 works have been added. People have voted and I now think the first eight works of the list could be considered a New Weird canon. https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/8...

Likewise, science fiction has its canon, one that has now grown so huge that few people can claim familiarity with all the works. It's more than a lifetime of reading can now accomplish. The subgenres of science fiction too all have their canons. Most of these are possible to read in their entirety, although truth to tell, many of these are getting almost too large, like time travel.

One reason for canons, or 'lists of books you must read' is so that when discussing a type of book, or genre, two or more people can point to key examples an entire audience can be presumed to be familiar with, or even better, to have read. Another reason is so that people can quickly find quality books in a loved genre to read. If you know, for example, that you like science fiction novels and you like romance novels (heaven help you), did you know that their is a subgenre called science fiction romance? It's actually quite well-developed.

Now that you know this, how are you going to find a good science fiction romance novel? Something about a human and an alien getting it on, perhaps, with all the complications that could involve? Good luck browsing the bookstore or library to find one! However, you can instead come to this group and ask people what the best science fiction romance novels are and probably get some useful guidance on that subgenre's canon. I found a list, but I doubt more than a few works in it are canonical, or even worthwhile: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/sc... You might benefit from an expert in this field's opinion and thus avoid some of the less well written works.