Review Group discussion
General discussion
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Mailing lists
No rips, only a comment: I have never once bought a book from any mailing list. I have bought sequels from friends on Facebook, but mainly I buy books through looking at friend reviews here on Goodreads or because I have read them and like them in this group. For example, I first read Ali Isaac's stuff in this group and now I do follow her blog and Facebook posts. Patrick DeMoss' book was recommended by Jay Howard, on this group, and it's a favorite. But mailing lists just turn into spam, if you ask me. Which you didn't, so...
So you reckon all the marketing gurus have got it wrong? Its a relief if its true that size doesn't matter.
Then again, is that just what people with little ones say?
Well, nothing else any marketing guru has said has ever worked for me - or apparently for my publisher. So I dunno. I'm certainly no expert, but I question whether they are, as well.
I dont have a big list, nearly at 100 and honestly I have only sent 3 emails, but they have all been relatively successful. I think the trick is to be real on your email and not salesy. Just write them like your writing to your friend and talk about what your doing but don't rant. The 3 emails I have sent are for books I have for free for a period of time and they get a number of downloads from the list. From what I have read it is all about building credibility. Most readers don't know who we are as new authors so your really using your list as an opportunity to introduce yourself as a real person. As a disclaimer though - I'm not a guru and I have next to nothing for experience! haha I hope that helps though! Merry Christmas!!
I apologize in advance for this. But...I like big lists and I cannot lie
You other authors can't deny
When a girl only has an itty bitty list
And a sequel sitting with no face
You need sprung...
LOL. For real, I would totally use a list if I had one and thanks for the dialog about how to get one started. But I can see where K. A, is coming from. I wouldn't buy a book from an unsolicited source. That said, I am on some lists for favorite authors and enjoy getting an email about upcoming releases. But blogs work well too.
I've heard the same thing about mailing lists. The thing is, if you have fans and they are interested in your work, they will be keen to get the latest update on when your books release.So, for that I think mailing lists are great.
If I sign up for a mailing list and it sends out weekly/monthly newsletters, I usually sign off because I never read them when they come so often.
I have a mainly list that has fewer sign ups than yours! But then I don't have a huge fan base yet. I assume when I get more out and people want to know when the next one will be released I'll get more signs ups.
That's my two cents.
And I signed up for yours. :)
Thank you kindly.I've decided to jump into facebook with both feet, so if anyone wants to friend my on my shiny new profile,
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...
I'm game.
Oh yes, facebook me back! (I will do so later when I can get on FB)I'm Nat Kennedy 18 or something like that.
I ran a Rafflecopter contest for a $20 Amazon gift card to get mailing list sign-ups. Ended up with 212 new subs. Thought I'd get a lot of unsubs after the contest ended, but only 13 people have dropped me thus far.Was it worth it? Dunno. A lot of the subscribers were sweepstakers, but are they book lovers also? I'll have to wait and see how things play out over several months before I can definitively say anything about my list.
I'm trying to send out a monthly newsletter, something quick and easy to read, not salesy as Robert mentioned. The first one had a decent open rate, but I'm pretty sure that was because people wanted to see who won the contest. I haven't had any promotions yet, so can't say if anyone is interested in a free or discounted copy of my novel.
I'm coming to the conclusion that mailing lists are just another weapon in an author's personal marketing arsenal, which includes reviews, websites engaging with bloggers and a social media presence.Problem is, all this takes time. Time away from doing what we really love, writing.
Unfortunately, without this work, even excellent books sink without a trace if no one reads them.
I hear you, Emma. I have also been trying to build up more of an online presence in the last year or two, but I think it is important not to get carried away and spend all of your free time on it. I have adopted the approach of picking and choosing a few things which I think will work for me, and then trying them out. (My choices are of course limited to the ones I can make head or tail of).I also have a Mailchimp mailing list, and boosting it is on my to-do list this year. To that end, here is my link! http://eepurl.com/bmJt9L
I'm feeling my way through facebook at the moment, and feeling like a dinosaur.
Hmm. I'm getting a lot of single chaps from Pakistan, Algeria and Turkey wanting to be my friend...
I wonder how keen they will be when they find out I write m/m as well...
Oh, yes, Facebook friend requests are...unique. After I broke my leg, I got a lot of requests from cast-fetish people. Yep.
Here's an introductory article in a series on mailing lists. It was published in May 2016 and was written by a social media entrepreneur.https://janefriedman.com/getting-star...
I too have a baby email mailing list which would love your support - I have signed up to those on here. I think it's one of those things that works wonderfully once you've figured out how to get everyone signed up. I'm off to the SFWeekender in North Wales at the end of March and I'm hoping to get a few willing victims to sign up then.Here's mine:
http://eepurl.com/csWd0f
Done, Claire. Anything for a fellow knight...
Warren wrote: "Done, Claire. Anything for a fellow knight...":D
Hi Here is my mailing list. Check it out http://eepurl.com/cCPomvLet me know if you would like me to feature a book for you.
Harry wrote: "Hi Here is my mailing list. Check it out http://eepurl.com/cCPomvLet me know if you would like me to feature a book for you."
I subscribed - don't forget to return the favour! And I'll let you know when my new book comes out re: feature :)
On the subject of baby e-mail lists, here is mine! You get a free 20-page sci-fi story for signing up! https://t.co/Gj6d3CXMZq (Copied from my Twitter post). It mentions that it is free with purchase of an ebook, but you don't have to purchase it because I gave you the link!I guess I should change that. My updates are few and far between. That may not be a good thing? Open for suggestions!
Done Pamela, and thanks for the story!
Permit me to revive this most interesting topic.I just hosted a virtual summit and one of the speakers talked about mailing lists. The replay is 4+ hours long but definitely worth the listen http://www.segilolasalami.co.uk/virtu...
When I first got my website, I was totally clueless as to what I was doing. I read somewhere that it was better to focus on your blog feed and push notifications, so I started looking into it. I ended up submitting my blog feed to a lot of directories. I also syndicated my blog feed in websites that accept feeds eg tots100, Mumsnet etc
Over a year after I launched my blog, I figured out how to get email subscribers on my blog and merge it with my MailChimp account. Looking back, I wish I knew how to do this from the very beginning as I feel that I lost a lot of subscribers that way. Saying that, my blog feed has a lot of subscribers.
Even MailChimp uses your blog's feed to send email newsletters regularly.
Something I said in my virtual summit is that as much as you think your book is the bee's knee, no body cares about you or your work. You need to give them a reason to care about what you do.
Telling people to constantly buy your book is not the way forward in my opinion. I know that I don't like following people on Twitter if all I ever see them talk about is what they are doing.
If you are a serious author, you should ask yourself how the content of your newsletter helps anyone.
When I first started out, I read that starting a podcast is a way to indirectly promote one's book. So I started my own podcast.
Due to my podcast, I find that people talk about my show and recommend it to others as they find it helpful. Authors come on the show as a means to increase their brand awareness. Book lovers follow my newsletter/podcast to discover new authors and books.
My mailing list has a very small number of people on it because like I said before I only started working on it recently. Even at that and with my weekly newsletter, the number of unsubscribers is negligible. This tells me that the people who double opted in are definitely interested in reading my posts.
When I hosted my virtual summit, I sent an email blast a few days before the event and saw a spike in the number of registrants to the event.
My recommendation is that you should have something to offer the people who follow you that is more than check out my latest book.
What is unique about you? Chimamanda Adozie is more than an author, she's a feminist. People that follow her (I think) do so because they are interested in the things she has to say and not simply to read her next book.
Ask yourself, what is unique about you? What pain points are you solving for people?
Everything Segilola says is very interesting. So far nothing much has worked for me - I keep shying away from a mailing list as I loathe being put on mailing lists, have never bought a book from one, and unsubscribe from, or fail to read any sent to me, but I get the idea that what you say has to be interesting. Because my old dinosaur phone won't die and I'm very frugal, I haven't a smart phone so my twitter account has to be done on a computer has only 5 followers - trouble is, you have to get some followers on that to bother to send out tweets, but unless you have some interesting tweets when people click on you, no-one will follow! And hey, maybe because I haven't a phone, I've failed to read a single tweet from anyone else - they all bore me. One promo I did gave me 5 tweets to a 14,000 strong mailing list, the authors of which were supposed to re-tweet. I spent ages enjoyably creating some excellent witty and beautifully visual promotional tweets. I got 5 re-tweets! So no-one else was bothering to read their tweets either.For some reason I have nearly 4,000 likes on my Facebook author page from India (which has its own Amazon site) with many likes from Pakistan, Sri Lanka and South Africa - despite the fact that none of them ever read the books! (I've had five downloads only in India). I think they're using it like a kind of flirting site! I only advertise to females and after a burst of sweet young females have 'liked' a post - all with discreet profile pictures just showing their eyes, or a small piece of themselves reflected in the mirror or something - then suddenly afterwards there'll be a rash of strutting young peacocks liking the same posts all posing in macho confidence on their motorbikes and grinning at the camera with mates leaning over their shoulder! I think when they see a girl they fancy 'liking' something, then they 'like' it too, to get in with her! Oh well, makes my page look good anyway! Unlike my twitter, the page looks authentic because of the numbers - but I've no idea how to use the FB author page for anything other than promotion. If only they'd all read the book, even only when it was on a free promo, I'd be laughing, but they don't - even though hundreds 'like' every post! They like my book covers I think.
Most of the FB book club sites are useless and not clubs at all, just dumping promotion sites (except for Booksgosocial book review club and booksgosocial book buying review club and Reviewmates - all three very useful folks - get straight on them).
On my GR page, my CV and blogs have garnered me lots of requests to review books for, or about various sexual assault, addiction or trauma related books,both fiction and non-fiction. I have to be careful how I review random books now and mention if there is poor treatment of women in it, for instance, because I've had a number of 'friend requests' from people (both male and female) who are open about being sexual abuse/assault survivors. Part of me is pleased that I have a distinctive 'persona' on GR and part of me doesn't want to be pigeon holed and put other people off...
Writing eats up hours of ones life. And now, trying to get it 'out' there to the right audience seems to take even more hours with little result. And I have a family, 'real' life to live, and have to earn a living too... I find myself despairing sometimes that all the 'promotional' hours (and money) I put in have so little impact...
If anyone has any ideas how to reach teenagers directly - do tell me! I write YA. There are so many gate-keepers for that age-group. I guess I find it more frustrating because I write contemporary, and that goes out of date quickly, so I can't wait a decade for a 'breakthrough'!
To be honest, it has taken me two years to get here. You need to put in the work to find out what suits your persona.I am a figures person and whilst I don't particularly like sharing figures maybe this can put things into perspective for you coupled with my previous post.
In 2015 when I published my first book, the first review I had was that of a friend and I kept watching my reports dashboard waiting for the millions to roll in.
Last week in September, I had this idea for a children's book. Took me a week to do the illustrations and get the first draft ready. I put the book on pre-order on the 2nd of October for release on the 16th of October. A week later, I edited the book with feedback from my beta readers. Yesterday, I sent an email to 606 people from my mailing list. I gave myself a target of 1% of the readers requesting to review my book. To me, if less than that number replied, then there was something very wrong with my list. In less than one hour after sending my email, I had 1.65% of the list asking to review the book. Less than 12 hours later, I had 2.85% asking to review my book.
Remember, the book is not yet available for purchase. In less than 12 hours, my book is in the hands of almost 20 book reviewers and my list is extremely small compared to more popular authors.
I don't use my phone for social media. I rarely reply to emails on my phone. I do all my work on my desktop.
My recommendation is that you should pace yourself, just keep at it and you will find what works for you. Where do teenagers hang out? What are their spending habits? Do they hold the purse strings or their parents?
My favourite saying is:
There are book readers who are book buyers eg adults
There are book readers who are not book buyers eg children
There are book buyers who are not book readers eg libraries
You have to have a strategy to reach all three demographics. There are lots of posts on GRs where other authors have shared what worked for them and what hasn't. Here's one https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Here's the GR page of the book I am referring to https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...
My actual Facebook page has just 100 likes, so from that point of view, you are doing considerably better than I am.
I hope this helps
Hmm, thanks. All very interesting. It's helpful to hear other author's experiences and statistics. I'll peruse the info on your links.With children's books you are having to write for the children, and sell to the adults!
I'm in the dicey area of needing to sell to the readers themselves who haven't much money...
I do have a lot of success at getting downloads when I do free promos on lists such as Freebooksy (I mean in the thousands) - probably due to my strikingly different book cover and blurb which stands out from the mainly fantasy and dystopian rest. It goes out billed as YA, but I suspect it's downloaded by adults for their own reading, but so far it has rarely translated into more than a few paid sales for the rest of the series, or reviews. A few determined souls read straight through the whole series via KU during the following fortnight - only one of those ever left a review, though they must be enjoying it or they wouldn't be spending so many hours a day reading them all in a row! I sinisterly stalked that one reviewer via her Amazon review profile, just to see what sort of person she was (honestly only one peek!) - by the number of baby care and toddler items and start-up home type furniture she was reviewing, she was almost certainly a young mum! Interestingly, mine was the only book she'd ever reviewed so not one of those prolific book consumer/reviewers. So I guess she'd be the sort I'd love to get onto a list as she'd signed up to follow me on Amazon.
I suspect most of the downloads of my book have never been, and maybe never will be, read. The sort of reader that gets free books off a list is 'hoarding' them against a rainy day. I picked up so many when taking the Freebooksy feature waiting for my own promo to come up that I ended up deleting a lot of them again as there were far more than I'd ever get time to read.
I'm now about to try a 'reduced price' promo - as I suspect that those collecting free books never want to pay for them, but those willing to pay 99p, might be more willing to pay for the rest of the series too. Adults I'm talking about here.
My next step will be local to try to get the teen audience... When I wrote the book originally and had an agent for it, I had lots of friends who had kids in the local senior school and they were reading it for me, and rating it highly - but the publishers at the time told my agent that teens didn't read contemporary any more (Harry Potter, Twilight last gasp era) so by the time we waited a couple of years to exhaust all the publishers, and another year to get out of my contract with the agent (reputable though she was), and a couple of years where I just gave up because I had to work to eat - my book was already getting out of date (story lines relying on out of date technology!). So now, all this time later and I'm a self-published author of a series, but I've lost contact with my ready-made local audience and gateway into the local school... Stalking teens isn't seen as a social plus! Stranger danger and all that... Still, I'm working on it...
Thanks for your response.
Ps. Took a wander around your website which was interesting. I can see how you are spreading your message via all the different methods... and catching attention with the specialist 'Yoruba' slant etc. I'm taking notes..! Plus your 'join my mailing list' form flashed up very efficiently!
Your feelings about mailing list mat mirror that of some ordinary readers, but bare in mind that you are not. You're an author. You have different goals and purposes for accessing books than most people. Plus, looking at other people's newsletters, it an excellent way of figuring out the best content for your own.
If you are tempted to open a newsletter, think about what made that one more enticing than the others?
to be honest, not all ordinary readers don't like newsletters. when my toddler was a baby, I loved receiving emails from a baking blog. then I could fantasize about all the baking I would do when I had a bit more time and 3 years later I still don't have any spare time.you just need to reach that person's pain point and give them a reason to check out your blog. you will miss the mark a few times then suddenly it would all just click
True Emma! I've never been an ordinary reader... I've written since I was seven years old...and burned more manuscripts than I've ever published. And been glad I burned them too, because the next incarnation of the story or issues was always so much better. In this digital age it's hard to just press 'delete'! Sorry - diversion there... You are right that a non-author reader just wants to get hold of books. I know how much other people's books have enriched my life when memorable characters get a foothold in my imagination, and I am not aiming to sell millions, just aiming to find the readers who will find my characters sorely needed soul-mates, or just an amusing diversion with some decent content. I think that the way one presents ones book in the marketing material (cover, blurb etc) is crucial for enabling readers to self-select in advance - no use writing some advertising that makes thousands download it, then feel disgruntled that they've been mis-sold it. Better to write something which flags up the main thrust of the content for those who like that sort of thing even if it's a minority market.
My YA contains swearing and violence and references to drug use and sex (but has a moral thrust overall) so I make this clear to try to put off the clean reads sector! On the other hand, I know a couple of 'clean' readers who absolutely loved it but who can't review it on GR because they can't admit to it! (They put an anonymous review on Amazon). And yesterday I noticed a new feature on Amazon highlighting what average star rating was given to my book by readers of various genres - and I was getting four stars by readers of Christian and Religious books! Phew? How did that happen? I must be everyone's dirty little secret!
Did I just get diverted again? Oh yes - hey - just trying to say that carefully streamlining a clear message about your book content is important. I recently did a hugely long review of a book about the descent into and recovery from drug addiction, to highlight clearly who this book is aimed at, and who should read it, because the author was getting reviews complaining about 'washing dirty linen in public' because she'd been marketing it more as an 'entertaining' misery memoir - and it wasn't entertaining... but it could really help someone struggling with drug addiction.
Wah! It's a blizzard of digital information out there! But overall I'm enjoying the whole process, even if a bit bleary eyed... (4 am to bed last night, sssh!)
Yeah, Segilola- I'm with you on that - for a long while it was me and Gardening sites. All those fantabulous pictures emailed to me, showing what my garden could look like if only I wasn't living only 5 miles from the wettest place in the UK and only saw the sun three times a year. Vitamin D production? You must be having a laugh! It was a kind of plant pornography to drool over. But hey, it made me happy... They got loads of money out of me until five years on I realised that they nearly always died, or looked like depressed sticks with one tiny flower on a straggling branch. Even so, people still stop to admire my tiny patch. I came back to find a tourist over from India crawling all over my lawn to get arty angles of my blooms during the one week in June when it all looks good. I took it as a compliment!
What I've discovered is that success in this industry isn't down to having fantastic covers and appealing, well written books. Lots of authors produce those.
Success is down to marketing and having the gonads to contact bloggers, websites, and other authors higher up the 'success' chain and persuading them to promote on your behalf.
Unfortunately, most of us authors are introverts, and we find this the most difficult aspect.
Yeah - sure you're right. I had a bit of a stint where I set myself a target of contacting one blogger, website etc a day. Not a single one got back to me, (I was careful to fulfill all their guidelines). I've had a couple of bloggers contact me unsolicited though - one of them did artwork to go with each review on Instagram - she gave me a rave review and a lovely illustration - but she only had 100 followers and nothing seemed to come of it. I posted her Instagram pic link on FB and my GR blog but no-one clicked on it! Doh! It was a lovely interaction though.
Dominique wrote: "Yeah - sure you're right. I had a bit of a stint where I set myself a target of contacting one blogger, website etc a day. Not a single one got back to me, (I was careful to fulfill all their guide..."If not a single one replied to you, what was your pitch like?
I did it for several weeks. I know it sounds like I can't have represented myself very well but I'm sure I did, and also most of them had forms you filled in which limited the 'pitch'. Also, once I'd navigated all the way through the various blogs/websites to find out what they were accepting at the moment, many said their lists were shut for now as they were overwhelmed, or said they were no longer accepting Indie authors, or no longer accepting 'unsolicited' or were only taking from NetGalley. I'd say 70% were no longer taking Indies or their lists were full. More 'home grown' types were generally very welcoming, took my details but said they had so many books it might be up to 6 months to get to it!
ah ok, that makes sense now. well, it's all a learning experience and before you know it, you'll have a team in your arsenal. I'm a 'lazy' author/blogger in the sense that as a mom, I don't have a lot of time to dedicate and if I can just about scrape by, I'm sure you will be able to. just don't give up. that's the only guaranteed way of failing
Ah, but as a mom - you've got a very willing audience for all your stories... (until they get to that 'oh do go away, mom' stage!).
that's true, there's always going to be one person who loves my books (for now)
I think aweber is more professional with more in boxing rate and prettier templates too ;)
Emma wrote: "I have been reliably informed that mailing lists are necessary to even take your first tiny shuffling step as an author.So any ideas about how to build an effective mailing list apart from putting..."
Nice. I have subscribed. Cheers. Louis
Emma,Granted, I didn't read every single post on this thread, but I didn't see my question answered. I'm new to the group, and I'd like to begin building a mailing list. I have been contacted by a reader who is willing to read/review my book.
Here's the question: Is it allowed to add the reviewer to your personal mailing list? With their approval, of course. Or is there a rule forbidding this desire to reach out when the next book launches?
Thanks so much,
Susan B. Nickson
if you ask, and they say yes, why would there be a problem?Problems only arise when you add people without their permission. I suggest using a service such as mailchimp. It's free up to a certain number of subscribers.
For sending ARCS, Bookfunnel has a an encrypted file service which I find very useful.
Thank you, Emma! I'm new, and I'm trying not to break any rules.I'll check into the services you've suggested.
You're welcome. I can't say any more than that I use them and I'm happy with them.There are others out there!
Got it.Now, to get more than two people on the list!
So any ideas about how to build an effective mailing list apart from putting the link in the back of your book?
I've been wrestling with 'mailchip' over the last few days and have managed to set up said 'list' and have a grand total of 20 names on it.
One of them is me.
This is my sign up link, feel free to rip my feeble attempt at marketing to pieces and I promise to diligently sign up to other people's lists if only to make you smile at a 'you have a new subscriber' email.
Tis the season of goodwill after all
http://eepurl.com/bZKKGf