BooktubeSFF Awards discussion

I really want to read this, but I hate starting incomplete series. Is there a major cliffhanger or will a person be left sane after reading this and before having access to the rest of the series?

Yes I was going to add that I'm aware it's going to be a weird ride :D But yay, I'll add it to my BTSFFA-TBR.

I'm hyped to read this one! :D

Reading the synopsis I'm getting some Warhammer 40k vibes. Anyone who can tell me if there are any big similarities between the two universes, or if it's just superficial, such as the usage of the word "heretics"? (My experience with 40k doesn't extend much beyond the Rogue Trader RPG and the Space Hulk board game.)

Linnea wrote: "I'm hyped to read this one! :D

Reading the synopsis I'm getting some Warhammer 40k vibes. Anyone who can tell me if there are any big similarities between the two universes, or if it's just superf..."

No, no similarities.

Yay. I'll be able to get it to my Overdrive and read it from the library.
This is exciting as I really need to explore more Science Fiction.

Phil wrote: "Linnea wrote: "I'm hyped to read this one! :D

Reading the synopsis I'm getting some Warhammer 40k vibes. Anyone who can tell me if there are any big similarities between the two universes, or if i..."

Good! (I think...) XD

I bought this the other day and I'm really looking forward to reading it! Sounds intriguing, and the synopsis makes it sound like the plot of an awesome movie

Just keep in mind the first 50 or so pages might be a rough drop in. The story gives you nothing and reality itself works a little different in this universe. It's super fun though!

Thanks for the heads up! If I'm struggling with it in the first 50 pages I'll make sure I push through

Thanks for letting us know Sarah. I like being in the know about these things beforehand.

You're welcome! I nearly quit myself but it paid off for me. I'm not usually someone to say 'stick it through' but I do think it's worth it.

Thanks Sarah! I read the first 20 pages and there's something about the writing style that I'm finding very difficult to get into. I was thinking of DNFing it, but now I'm going to push through.

Caroline wrote: "Thanks Sarah! I read the first 20 pages and there's something about the writing style that I'm finding very difficult to get into. I was thinking of DNFing it, but now I'm going to push through."

You're welcome! I hope you enjoy it! It's got quite a learning curve on it, haha.

I know this is the kind of book that doesn't work for everyone but it definitely works for some. I also agree on it throwing you in the deep end. I'm not always on board with that, but here it paid off for me. It's especially hard since it's a strange blend of science fiction and maybe magic?
I especially love the way the calendrical belief works. That was something I'd not seen done before. Everyone sees magic and laser guns but that was new to me.
It'll be interesting to see what people think is going on early in their first read!

I read three chapters. I'm intrigued! I have to stop to make dinner, but I'm definitely going to continue this tonight. Yes, it's a bit hard to follow, but I don't mind that. I'm treating this as a weird mix of as of yet unexplained magic and computer science. Not to say there's magic involved, but my brain is treating the unknown the same way it does when I'm thrown into a new magic system. It will all make sense eventually, just hang in there brain. I'm aware with this one it's possible it won't ever make any kind of sense, but one can hope.

These are in no way spoilers, but (view spoiler)[the Kel feel like parts of a computer program, even though we're told Cheris is human. I'm not really getting a cyborg vibe, more like brain programming to make them into a living cluster. And the calendar stuff, well, yeah, no I can't tell you what I think it is :D but I'm treating it like it's different aspects of time warring with each other. Yeah, I'll go with that. (hide spoiler)]

I'm a couple days late (and a dollar short?), but I'm definitely going to be joining in by the weekend at least. It's interesting seeing everyone's thoughts, especially about it being /weird/. I had a vague idea thanks to BookTube, but it'll be fun experiencing it for myself.

I'm 5 chapters in and am struggling a little bit to figure out how this world operates. I don't mind the challenge of it, but I wonder what people are getting out of it. To me, it seems like there's some sort of branch of mathematics that depends on (or maybe even influences) not only weapon functioning, but also how people behave and what their beliefs are? Like it limits a person's ability to think creatively? Are other people getting this too? I confess I work long hours and have time to read only at night, so my brain is not all here. But I also struggle because I feel like there's cross over between AI and normal intelligence and there's some virtual reality happening in chapter 4.

I've read eight chapters so far. I can't say why this is pulling me in, but it is. If I didn't have to spend the day playing make believe with a child today, I'd have stayed up and read until I fell asleep mid-sentence. I'm reading at a way slower pace than normal, because my brain keeps flagging me that I've missed something. I don't think I understand anything better because I'm reading slower, but at least I can assure my brain that the I'm understanding what's possible for me to understand at this point.

One interesting thing to observe is how the brain keeps trying to find frames of reference. So far the ones I've thought of most often are the computer system I mentioned earlier, it's like there's a programming error that didn't take into account that date systems can change and it's causing problems. And the other one is something I can't really put into words, but it feels like if Albert Barillé had made a new series for adults about how the brain works and what happens when there's stress or mental illness, etc. (Like that old series Once Upon a Time... Life.)

Following this thread. I am starting this book now but super excited to be reading it. I saw that it was nominated for Nebula awards this year too.

Elizabeth wrote: "My understanding was a bit like that but more based in physics. "

I'm not very good with physics, but I studied computer science, so it's logical that's where my brain wants to go.

I just finished chapter 14, I'm not going to look at the spoiler before I finish the book. I'm trying to finish as soon as I can, so that I can go look at what people have been saying about this!

edit 3+ hours later: I finished the book. I don't know how I'm going to be able to sleep with my brain spinning around in a circle. Thanks for your explanation Elizabeth, my non-physics brain would never have come up with that on its own, but it accepts the theory and feels very grateful.

(view spoiler)[From pretty early on, I had this faint hope, that maybe the heretics would turn out to have a system that functions more closely to the one I'm used to. A lot of the information about the heretics sounded so comfortably familiar, and I kept thinking "Yes! Give me that!" (hide spoiler)]

Just started this book - I've read the first two chapters and I'm not as confused as I expected to be, and I'm looking forward to carrying on with it! Trying to read slower than I usually would to take in as much as I can - there's so much going on.

I'm surprised I didn't have dreams about this last night. I was sure my brain would be working overtime. I almost want to read this again immediately, but since the sequel is coming out this year, maybe it's a better idea to reread then. In any case, this is definitely one that will benefit from a reread.

For me personally, I'm so happy I decided to read this even though I had originally written it off as something too weird (and difficult) for me. I usually put off starting what I expect will be better books, because I don't feel like I'm in the right mood or that my brain won't be able to process them optimally. What this made me remember is that it's okay not to understand everything even after reading the book. I need to occasionally give my brain a jolt to keep it functional. Also, I really need to start reading more scifi again!

Yay, so I finally started in on one of the shortlisted books. This was where I started since it's a library book and it expires at some point.
I read the first chapter and I'm confused. I remember being told to give it like 50 pages. So I'm hoping I'll get a better grasp on things soon.

Ok, I'm on chapter 12 now, and it seems like with each chapter comes new hints at how the world works. I keep refining what I think is going on, although you really don't need to know exactly how everything works to get enjoyment out of the story. I won't look at the spoiler until I've finished, and I won't spoil anything here, but it's funny how I'm so obsessed with figuring out how things work here. While this may truly be a book that blends magic with science, I hope it isn't. I like my science fiction to be consistently grounded in reality, and doesn't the best advances in technology seem like magic even if it isn't? But that's probably my bias against blending the two genres - I like fantasy, but please keep it separate from science fiction.

Stephanie wrote: "Ok, I'm on chapter 12 now, and it seems like with each chapter comes new hints at how the world works. I keep refining what I think is going on, although you really don't need to know exactly how e..."

I'd be interested to know how other people feel about things that blend science fiction and fantasy - good or bad?

By the way, I like the main character, Cheris. Perhaps this is great timing, but I've recently been flung into a leadership position at work and have had trouble getting people to respect me. I think it's because I'm younger (and it doesn't help that I look younger than I am). Anyway, the point of this is that Cheris is struggling through something similar, in that she's found herself with a lot more authority than she feels she deserves. Her feelings of inadequacy but resilience in the face of this challenge has been giving me strength - although luckily I'm not tasked with retaking the Fortress of Scattered Needles from heretics, haha!

There's actually a line that's stuck with me. This is in chapter 2. I don't think this is a spoiler but just in case:

(view spoiler)[ On page 36, when Cheris decides to accept the challenge at the Fortress, she rationalizes her decision by reflecting that "the two ways to win at gambling were to read the situation and know the odds. Cheris had calculated her situation already. She had only a single life to offer, and she was aware of the ugly deaths that awaited her should she fail, but at some point you had to trust yourself " (emphasis added).

Yeah, that last line has been stuck in my head this past week. (hide spoiler)]

hello!! *waves* i'm over half-way through the bk & finding it still very difficult worldbuilding-wise. i have to stop myself from skipping some of the relatively heavy-handed bits BUT i'm absolutely adoring the characters. i'm putting the rest in spoilers for anyone wanting to go in w/ absolutely no biases:

(view spoiler)[cheris' treatment of the servitors is absolutely amazing, not to mention my adoration of the servitors themselves. their designs & personalities are absolutely wonderful; they're definitely the scenes i look forward to the most. i hope other people found these scenes as wonderful as i did.

i also adore jedao mostly bc i feel like there's some kind of something involved in his murder spree, mostly bc lee keeps dropping super obvious hints that cheris isn't picking up (or doesn't care to notice, w/ everything else going on). i hesitate to make any real conjectures just bc anything could happen at this point. (hide spoiler)]

OK I've had to start Chapter one about three times now - I want to enjoy this but I feel like I'm going to be a bit confused by this :(

(view spoiler)[I'm pretty sure I squealed aloud when the foxform servitor was introduced. I did enjoy the relationship Cheris had with the servitors, but I loved the scenes where we got a glimpse into the servitors interacting with each other. I would have liked to have even more of that. And to get to know the servitors as individuals. Like how badass is 7777777? :D It was extra cute how the servitors were trying to think about ways to help Cheris.

"7777777 had always had a rebellious streak"

edit: Also, I'm very intrigued by Kujen, I want to know his backstory. And learn more about Jedao. I can't help liking him, but is that because he's manipulating me?! (hide spoiler)]

Therese wrote: "OK I've had to start Chapter one about three times now - I want to enjoy this but I feel like I'm going to be a bit confused by this :("

I found that not thinking about it too hard really helped, but I don't know how useful that is for you. It's kind of vague advice, I know :(

OK trying it again without over thinking and so far so good! still slightly confused but I'm enjoying the characters

Therese wrote: "OK trying it again without over thinking and so far so good! still slightly confused but I'm enjoying the characters "

I'm glad you're enjoying the characters :) I'm in love with Cheris and Jedao's interactions. It's fun seeing how they play off of each other.

I'm 7 chapters in now. I'm still confused about some things, but I feel like I'm getting the hang of things. I really like Cheris as a character. I also like the do we, or do we not trust Jedao.
Also btw. I'm butchering all the names while reading I'm sure.

I'm only two chapters in - a little behind, but so far I'm enjoying it. It took me longer than I'd like to admit to read chapter one, but I think i'm starting to get it a bit from context. I'm hoping to make a dent in it today so I can contribute more to the discussion!

I agree with a lot of what everyone is saying the characters are the strongest pull. I love the weird world and honestly that you can't think to hard about it, but that's after I learned to love the characters. This is one that's worth it for the characters first.
And I would love to read more about Servitors. I can't wait for the next book (which I was on Amazon today - is only 5.61 or so for preorder in the states, which is super cheap if anyone has finished and loved it) I'm hoping we'll get a lot more of them. They seem mightly important.

Jessica wrote: "I'm only two chapters in - a little behind, but so far I'm enjoying it. It took me longer than I'd like to admit to read chapter one, but I think i'm starting to get it a bit from context. I'm hopi..."

I was the exact same! Totally worth the work though. I'm up to chapter 10 at the moment and it really pays off! :)

Lianne wrote: "Therese wrote: "OK trying it again without over thinking and so far so good! still slightly confused but I'm enjoying the characters "

I'm glad you're enjoying the characters :) I'm in love with C..."

Oh that's my favourite part of the whole book so far! :)

I finished it & definitely fell in love. I think my favorite thing abt Ninefox Gambit ended up being the prose. NPR said the world-building is “all death and horror and words that are slippery — not meaning precisely to us what they do to the characters in whose mouths and minds they live,” which I think is spot-on. I definitely want to read more by Yoon Ha Lee.

I've made it to chapter thirteen and I am loving this! I love the tactics and the interactions between Cheris and Jedao. The character development is subtle but so well done! I like seeing how Cheris and Jedao feed off each other and how they are developing. I also think it's hilarious when we are given hints about Jedao and Cheris is just continuing to be oblivious.

On chapter 18. (view spoiler)[ I like how the servitors seem less of a slave to their programming than their humans, haha! (hide spoiler)]

Thanks to Rachel (Kalanadi) for reminding me about the two Jedao shorts. In case someone else is interested and didn't know/remember, here they are:

The Battle of Candle Arc, published in Clarkesworld Magazine, Issue 73, read/listen here

Extracurricular Activities, read on Tor.com

Anna wrote: "Thanks to Rachel (Kalanadi) for reminding me about the two Jedao shorts. In case someone else is interested and didn't know/remember, here they are:

The Battle of Candle Arc, publi..."

And thank you Anna,
I read Extracurricular Activities awhile ago(?) but this post encouraged me to read The Battle of Candle Arc.
It,s nice to read a story that relies on you to have sufficient imagination to not need everything spoon fed.

I liked Elizabeths 'spoiler' explanation but it was way over my head (physics/math???)
I was thinking more along the "historical/cultural" calendar line?
(Gregorian calendar, and the various change to our own dates, and foreign systems)

OK I've finished - Overall I loved this and I think a big part of that was the characters and how they interacted. How they were developed and thought out was really enjoyable. The story is a bit confusing and i'm not 100% sure of what went down but a definite recommend to anyone I meet in the future!

Finished it. Wow, that was a fun ride. (view spoiler)[ I saw the ending far before it happened, but it was fun reaching it anyway.

I wonder if Elizabeth's physics explanation explains the world building, although I have trouble reconciling quantum mechanics' probabalistic nature with the ability to influence weapon and battle outcomes with any certainty. Yeah, I know of the proposition that a particle can be in a number of different states (with different probabilities for each state) at the same time until the act of measurement forces it to "choose" a state (e.g., the act of measuring it affects its state). However, I have trouble accepting that human thoughts are "measurements." Moreover, quantum effects are, as far as I understand, washed out at large scales.

I have a sense the author was not too concerned about rooting the book's world in current scientific principles, so I will satisfy myself that it's some "new" branch of mathematics and physics in the future. (This is probably not an issue for most people - I just have an annoying habit of trying to rationalize everything around me, haha! You can tell I'm drawn to hard SF).

As far as the actual story goes, it was a good old fashioned brilliant military mind turned rebel. And who doesn't have fun with that? I hear there's a sequel? (hide spoiler)]

I just finished this book, and for some reason it didn't fully grab me. I did enjoy the characters for the most part, but I was confused a lot of the book as well. I ended up on a 3 stars because of the characters.

(view spoiler)[Elizabeth wrote: "What did you think about ... Jedao's plan for revolution?"

It was the final touch in solidifying my complete love for him! After reading Extracurricular Activities I can't even pretend I'm interested in reading about Cheris anymore, I want Raven Stratagem to be more about Jedao! Well that's what I'm expecting anyway considering what happened.

As for the Kel, my initial reaction of treating them like parts of a computer program or maybe even AI of sorts didn't really change. The wiping out of their memory or reprogramming fits nicely with that. It feels like brainwashing taken to such an extreme, that it's as effortless as doing a format of your hard drive or installing a patch or upgrade.

What I find hard to imagine is why someone like Cheris would choose that path, when she had another option. I don't know if the other factions really have an easier time with Doctrine either, but surely the Kel have been dealt the worst hand. Maybe we'll get to learn more about the other factions in the next book. (hide spoiler)]

I just started reading Conservation of Shadows, I've only read the first story so far, which was very interesting and had many similarities with Ninefox. I've also previously read a few of the other shorts (like Effigy Nights, which I also liked) in this collection, and am looking forward to reading more. It's not Jedao, but it's something :D

I finally made it to the halfway point of this book. I am feeling extremely hot and cold another it right now. I actually feel about it the way I have always felt about Star Wars. When the characters are interacting and having conversations, I am really interested. But, when there is a battle scene or military strategy talk, my eyes glaze over and I feel like skimming. I kind of wish I could have tons more of the characters and a lot less of the military side. Not sure how I am going to feel by the end of it all.

Cheyenne wrote: "I finally made it to the halfway point of this book. I am feeling extremely hot and cold another it right now. I actually feel about it the way I have always felt about Star Wars. When the characte..."

I'm of the same mind right now. Have not yet made it to half way point though.
I find the concepts very interesting, but the way they're presented is rather tiring. I feel like I'm stupid for not understanding them, and that's not a good feeling to have. ^^;;

I finished this up last night and decided on three stars here. I feel that Yoon Ha Lee seems to be a very intelligent man who fully grasps this mathematical/calendrical universe that he has created. The problem is that he didn't lead me the reader to understand the universe. I enjoyed the main characters and the servitors and I felt that the plot had great momentum but I just never caught on to the world and how it worked. I found it hard to picture and differentiate between some of the minor characters at times. And I never understood what the different identifiers such as "Kel", "Shuos", "Liis", etc meant. Are these different species? Or are they all humans with different religious beliefs? Or maybe different races? And also did Jedao really have nine eyes? Or was that supposed to be symbolic of something? Lol. I just have way too many questions here to feel satisfied with this novel.

I'm so sad but I'm DNF-ING this book with 60 pages to go. I just can't imagine the world or what's happening. I don't feel involved with any characters. it's so strange as I thought if really love this.