The Readers discussion

Now that we have all read The Sympathizer and you've heard our discussion, it's time for you all to chime in.

Feel free to use SPOILERS as you wish.

Personal note from me (Thomas): As I intimated in this episode I got to a point when we were recording where I felt like I should just shut my mouth. I didn't live through Vietnam or any war, I'm not Vietnamese, and I didn't live an immigrant experience. I don't mean for a second that only someone from one of those categories can discuss this book, but I did feel a bit like a middle class white dude talking about stuff about which I know nothing. So apologies and a plea that you are gentle with me when you tell me I am full of baloney.

I had my thinking altered so significantly by this book that it helped form my major reading goal for 2017. The distinction of refugee and immigrant, I'd never thought of it at all before. (My reading goal is refugees, borders, marginalized people, etc.) I notice even in your discussion (and in my own) how we want to use words like "Immigrant" and "Vietnamese American" because it sounds like choices, like they've integrated into our culture and are one of us. We are used to using these words, but perhaps refugees never think of it that way.

I wish you had done a little more research on his story because some of your guesses were right, others less so. It is true indeed that his family fled Vietnam because of the war. And he makes it clear in this novel and in his non-fiction book Nothing Ever Dies: Vietnam and the Memory of War that in the perspective of this large refugee community, this is an American war. The Americans become simultaneously at fault and the refuge. It must be a total mindfuck to people in that situation. How can you ever fully "integrate" into a society that caused the problem in the first place?

So it was interesting to hear you question whether or not his voice was the proper voice to tell this story. I think only his voice could have told the story of both the war, the duality of loyalties between north and south when the country had never been divided that way, of fleeing twice, of trying to navigate the American element with a Vietnamese mode of thinking...

He recently published a book of short stories called The Refugees, which I can recommend. All the characters in the stories are refugees, but usually in ways that intersect with other issues of belonging, and they are very thought-provoking without the muddiness of the long narrative with little white space. ;)

First of all... squeeeeeee, YOU READ MY POST ON THE PODCAST!!!!

Second of all, I don't think you have to be Vietnamese to have an opinion on the book any more than you have to be Russian to comment on War and Peace.

Of course one should always be culturally sensitive and never be a dick, but I think you're being too tough on yourself, Thomas.

I'm on record as saying that The Sympathizer is seriously flawed. That is my opinion as a reader. If anyone wishes to claim that my reading of the book is limited by my lack of empathy for Vietnamese culture, then I'd be happy to consider the argument. I don't think that's the case, but if someone wants to make it, I'd have to work through their explanation and take it seriously.

I agree with Jenny that Viet Thanh Nguyen's experiences make him uniquely qualified to write a story like this when questions about identity and culture are so central. As Thomas and Simon pointed out, the novel is very academic in many respects, but the portions that deal most with the narrator's fractured sense of his own identity are what, for me, prevent it from being an empty exercise. I don't think it's about having to be Vietnamese or a refugee in America to write about a character who is either or both of those things, but it happens to be important for what this particular novel is trying to do. It's interesting also to consider that the narrator and several characters are soldiers, something that Nguyen was not, and not unsurprisingly, there aren't that many scenes involving the war itself. Like any good author, Nguyen gets the balance right between how much you can research, and what material benefits from lived experiences.

As for readalongs in general--I'm still happy the way this one turned out, delays, the "homework" aspect, and all. But I get so few opportunities to discuss the books I read with anyone, that I appreciate this.

I held off listening to this episode until I finally completed the book, which I just finished yesterday, and I have a couple of thoughts. This book took me months to get through, and I could only read it in small chunks. At the same time, I didn't feel like I wanted to put it down because the Vietnam War isn't something that I have read a lot of, particularly from a voice who lived through the experience.

I felt that the interview and essay at the end really helped contextualize the novel for me. It gave me a much more positive post-reading view. The chapters describing his refugee life were some of the most interesting parts of the novel. I did feel like the movie set scenes were a bit forced, as if they author wanted to provide a situation in which the narrator could be there to comment on movies about the time period. It felt like an extensive aside that could have been done without, yet in looking at the work as a whole I can understand why the author chose to include it.

Overall, I'm glad to have had this opportunity to "read along" with The Readers. My own reading life is shaped by the books you discuss, so it's nice to have something that's a little bit more in depth on one book. Looking forward to the next one, which will be arriving at my house tomorrow!

June 7-2017
Andre ~ I have been trying to get a bit of discussion out of the group read we had on The Sympathizer . I finished a good while back and I had a few people out of the blue comment on the situation in the book in comparison with the refugee situation we have now .

I understand so much more about the Vietnam war now than before . After I read the Sympathizer I felt I had to understand more about the United State's intervention and what was so awful that we the people abandoned our own vets who were only following orders . Between the government and the generals the conspiracies to keep the awful failure that was senseless deaths all the way around was such a horrific tragedy .

Nixon may have finally been forced to stop the war by the leakage of the Pentagon Papers which led to the stupid Watergate Scandal which was nothing compared to what I felt Nixon and his generals should have been held accountable for .

Then The Sympathizer points out that no one was innocent from corruption among the upper leaders in the US or in Vietnam. There were three different groups of people fighting . 1: The Northern Vietnam Cong Communists 2: The Southern Vietnam loyalists to the old Family Regime . The leader of that regime had not even lived in Vietnam for years . He was raised a Catholic in the USA most of his life and knew nothing about war or being the ruler of a country . He came home and changed the laws for everyone to become Catholics and go to Catholic schools . The People didn't like this . They did not believe in a God . 3: this third group of Vietnamese wanted to just stay as they were. They believed in their dead as holy and sacred and they prayed to be reunited with them. They just wanted to work , live and be .

With the power struggle between the Communist North and the VC South . There was so much confusion. At first the US went in as advisers to help against a communist take over . This part does sound familiar to our situation now. The way they all dressed and hid in sophisticated tunnels caused the casualties to stack higher as the US got in deeper and deeper.

After the Pentagon papers were leaked, that was it and just as in the book . If the South Vietnamese wanted to live they had to go to the US. This is a totally different refugee situation than now. We did know who they were and where they came from . They were given shelter, jobs, food, clothing, they were taught English . It was our responsibility because we encouraged the war.

This is my take from most of the basic outline of the situation . But, there is so much more going on with the character's personalities and their relationships within their inner circle . This is where you really see how disparaging it is to be a refugee. These people did not want to come here. They wanted to go on living life the way they knew it all their lives . No one even considered this. The US felt they should feel lucky and appreciative.

Some of these men were wealthy and held in high regard. Now they were just like every other American businessman trying to make it each day. They seemed to have no hope or pride left.
What other solution did we have?What else could be we do?

Which now brings me to this question ? Why do you think the writer chose this time to write this book?
Why do you think that he called himself a Sympathizer when everyone he was around he talked about as if he was superior to all of them ? That is not sympathy. He barely mentions but a few things about his own experiences in the past and you get the idea he has separated himself from all feeling . How or why do you think he decided to become a spy - really?

Now , hard question , just how incredibly different , or not do you feel our refugee situation is different because of the situation with ISIS right now?
Do you think the refugees now would rather have stayed in a camp under protection somewhere and able to return to rebuild their homeland when this is over rather than go to a strange country where they do not speak the language , they have not a place for shelter, many are sick, there is no food, and they cannot worship as they would like to , or practice Sharia Law because we had freedom in our countries. The children must go to schools and may be bullied, and there are people always not so kind ?

Now , I would never be that way . I believe strongly in treating others as you would like to e treated . I also think every life holds Devine value and worth . I want peace and understanding . I believe in Love thy neighbor as thy self . I suppose that is why I love books so much . I can open a book and meet new people and see new places when cannot actually go there. I long for the light of that knowledge in my life . The world has just gotten so mean . I do not know the
Solution to all things but I do know if we talk about our feelings the more likely we are to find solutions , common ground, peace and hope because without any of these we have no love in the world . I refuse to believe in a world without love.

I amSincere,
Dawn