Tournament of Books discussion

This is the placeholder thread for the Play-In and first four brackets of the 2017 TOB starting March 8th.

Play-In Round is up: http://www.themorningnews.org/tob/2017/the-throwback-special-v-sudden-death-v-the-sport-of-kings.php

It's weird that no one really "gets" Sudden Death but likes it or dislikes it anyway. There was one really enlightening conversation about it here on goodreads, in the "Newest Literary Fiction" group I think, that tied the conquest on the court into the conquest of the New World. The regrets and complicity of the Europeans. I read more about the history of tennis, and it's even more war-adjacent than Enrigue gets into.

SO glad Sudden Death won. My brackets are now officially filled!

Cool. Glad the one sports book I didn't read is going through.

@Sarah - whew I'm glad Sudden Death wins if only for the opportunity to have extra conversation and understand it a tiny bit more! I'll have to check out that conversation in Newest Lit Fiction!

Sara wrote: "It's weird that no one really "gets" Sudden Death but likes it or dislikes it anyway. There was one really enlightening conversation about it here on goodreads, in the "Newest Literary Fiction" gro..."

Even the author said he wasn't sure what the book was about so I didn't feel too bad about not knowing either.

I'm so happy for Jason Diamond's take. Not just that Sudden Death won, but that Diamond is so gracious and thoughtful about all three books.

I used to think it was a bit of a fudge when TOB judges wrote "these are both so good, and it was so tough to choose..." but now I love this evenhandedness. It's a form of gracious humility that is in too small supply.

In times past the judgments and commentaries have gotten way too full of themselves, and too harsh. I like when the judges are actively, deliberately looking for what is good about these novels. I like it when they yield to the author's vision and let the story reveal its unique qualities.

In contrast to Diamond's graciousness, the commentary today feels a little small in spirit, and a little long in word count.

Just my take--I'm discovering that I prefer TOB when its judgments are written with expansive hearts.

I can't believe I got it right on that one! Throwback Special was so good I thought it would win that round for sure.

poingu wrote: "Just my take--I'm discovering that I prefer TOB when its judgments are written with expansive hearts.

reply | flag *
"

I think I like everything better that is undertaken with an expansive heart. I love this line, @poingu. :)

Is Disqus not working for anyone else over on the ToB? I reloaded Flash Player, deleted cookies, tried on three browsers (and updated them) from the list that Disqus says SHOULD support Disqus and restarted my computer, all doing the same thing. It says it is "taking longer than usual to load Disqus".

Mine is working fine... sorry C. I wish I was more savvy to help.

Mine is, too (I'm "LadyCat"). I hope it gets sorted soon!

Mr Womack over at the ToB suggested I restart the router... and it worked. I don't know why I didn't think of doing that!

Thanks to our esteemed judge I am going to try Sudden Death one more time. I definitely don't get it, but it seems worth trying again.

I can't say that I 'get' Sudden Death completely in terms of overarching themes or meanings and how they are woven together (or not) but I was loving and savoring the experience of reading it on a paragraph by paragraph, page by page level. I think the narrative voice so utterly charmed me that I'd follow it anywhere. I'd have to read it again to start to see the big picture(s). After a first reading I can make a list of themes, but it would take me another reading to start fleshing them out.

Is it just me, or is ToB unexpectedly late today?

Here it is: The Underground Railroad vs. Black Wave

Not surprised at all by the decision - it felt pretty inevitable. And truth be told, while I secretly wished for an upset here, in the year we are having, the political chaos we're experiencing, anything else would have felt morally wrong.

Um...."Expand the Tournament of Books with a “Summer Reading edition” this year (more info soon!) and other extensions."

That's exciting! Wonder if it'll still be books published this year or if it'll be thematic or something.

the commentariat is a bit more heated this morning... and it's a good discussion. I find myself disagreeing with some of the more one-sided judgments while still finding merits in some of the rationale behind them.

I agree Amy... almost caught some flames myself! ouch!

Yeah. I'm just going to continue to lurk over there and comment here. That comment section is intimidating, verging on bullying, almost.

yeah - this is definitely a sensitive one... easy to say something that can be taken out of context or attributed too much significance. i'm glad you dodged since the essence of your comment was spot on!

I'm disappointed that the judge in this case was irritated by the subject matter of Michelle Tea's novel and didn't put that aside to take the book on its own terms.

and I definitely need to read Underground Railroad again with some of the reader-provided contexts this round. Sellout last year wasn't my favorite read but it ended up with nearly my most respect ... every time I hear more (authorial intent, author's choices, reader's interpretations) about the book, my respect grows.

I am feeling the same about The Underground Railroad: I read it the week it came out and I really want to go back to it with all the commentary I've read since (both in the ToB and outside it) fresh in my mind.

I'm observing today that both the judgment and Kevin/John's commentary was a lot more emotional and swearing-filled than yesterday's decision or last year's tourney. Last year there were a lot of folks upset when judges used such familiar language, calling it unprofessional and even backhanding the judge's credentials at times. Now here we have John and Kevin joining the fray with little comment. Is that just a by-product of the year we're having? are we done with niceties in our 'post truth' reality?

Amy wrote: "Now here we have John and Kevin joining the fray with little comment. Is that just a by-product of the year we're having? are we done with niceties in our 'post truth' reality? ."

I don't like it at all. It's kept me from subscribing as yet--I just don't like the mean.

Maybe I'm more desensitized because of all the shit talk and craziness going on that I see on Facebook (mostly). The hate surrounding news in the world has gotten to me lately and the conversation and the judgment over there are very tame in comparison. You might be onto something with this 'post-truth' reality. I've also never minded the language but I can see where some might see this as unprofessional. However, as they clearly state... the ToB is not a professional literary award or anything and they do this on top of regular jobs - so there's that.

I didn't find Butler's commentary very illuminating or particularly interesting. It felt too focused on her and the basic plot points of the novels. I'm only half way through Black Wave, but I think there is a lot to say about it. I think Michelle Tea does a very good job of helping the reader understand the motivations of the characters, particularly around drug use and other high risk behavior. It isn't like anything else I've read. I haven't been able to access the ToB comment section yet, but I hope to see more discussion of Black Wave there.

Sarah wrote: "I haven't been able to access the ToB comment section yet, but I hope to see more discussion of Black Wave there. n..."

Yes, there's quite a bit about Black Wave there. Just a fair warning, however, that the conversation gets spirited at times.

It's up: The Vegetarian vs. All the Birds in the Sky

After three days of feeling mildly-to-starkly alienated by the commentary (and before that by the short list) I'm thinking I don't fit with this year's TOB. But I can't say if TOB has changed, or my reading habits have changed, or if it's just the quirks of the particular year.

I found yesterday's commentary way more alienating than today's, poingu. At least no one's instigated a flame war today (yet).

Of, course, I liked this year's list, way better than last year's, although there were no huge revelations, and I think you've liked previous years much better.

Ellen wrote: "I found yesterday's commentary way more alienating than today's, poingu. At least no one's instigated a flame war today (yet).

Of, course, I liked this year's list, way better than last year's, a..."

I agree yesterday's commentary was more of a challenge. I feel let down by the decision today I guess even though the judgment and commentary were polite and thoughtful compared with yesterday's.

I think my decision last year to focus deliberately on small presses and works in translation has changed my way of reading for the moment. I seem to value new-ness. It's like a benign addiction, caffeine maybe, where I get cranky if I don't see something very unique in a book, and I feel rewarded when a book is like nothing I've read before.

That preference clashes pretty strongly with this season's TOB. Most of the choices seemed to me on the predictable and safe side.

I remember reading an essay by Ben Lerner a few years ago where he claimed he loved reading Gertrude Stein, and that he took exception to people calling experimental reading "difficult," because he thought of it as "fun." I didn't believe him! But now I've morphed into something more like that kind of reader I guess.

Amy wrote: "I'm observing today that both the judgment and Kevin/John's commentary was a lot more emotional and swearing-filled than yesterday's decision or last year's tourney. Last year there were a lot of f..."

I'm not sure what it says about me that I didn't notice any swearing in K/J's Match Commentary for the BW/UG round - I had to go back and look for it, and only found a tiny bit. But I have a high tolerance for swearing, as long as it's used strategically, and not as every fourth word, like my jr high school boyfriend. (Reader, I didn't marry him.) As for the swipes at the Trump admin, how could they not when discussing a book about slavery in an environment where civil rights gains are being dismantled? Although in fairness, the Supreme Court started it.

poingu wrote: "After three days of feeling mildly-to-starkly alienated by the commentary (and before that by the short list) I'm thinking I don't fit with this year's TOB. But I can't say if TOB has changed, or m..."

This is my first real ToB (I sampled parts of last year's, but months after it was over) so I don't have comparisons, but what I do see in the judging is a fairly cursory look at my darling Black Wave and the J/K Match Commentary didn't add a whole lot more. Maybe I'm not as frustrated because there's already been some great BW discussion on GR groups. And if it had to lose to another book, at least it was a worthy one. And I'm also feeling benevolent after the Sudden Death win - a book that blew my mind and my socks off.

i have no problem with swipes at the Trump admin! only, hmm. come to think of it my twitter feed is 100% authors, mostly poets, and every tweet in it is about t***p, as he is known by most in my feed. My awareness of the man is so extreme and stress inducing that TOB as a t***p-free zone have been nice, although I understand why it didn't work out that way. Everything feels different now, where even for art done pre-election has a strange new significance and meaning that the author could not have intended, but is real.

poingu wrote: "i have no problem with swipes at the Trump admin! only, hmm. come to think of it my twitter feed is 100% authors, mostly poets, and every tweet in it is about t***p, as he is known by most in my fe..."

I do like using the T word because the very sound of it so perfectly suits him. Dickens couldn't have done any better!

I guessed today's bracket correctly, but I'm still really surprised at the way it went. Do you think we'll see The Vegeterian as a zombie?

Sherri wrote: "I guessed today's bracket correctly, but I'm still really surprised at the way it went. Do you think we'll see The Vegeterian as a zombie?"

Zombies are normally books that have the highest read counts, in my experience. So Underground, Lucy, Homegoing, Vegetarian, in that order. Though to be fair, my bracket is blown to bits, so grain of salt and all.

Rachel wrote: "Sherri wrote: "I guessed today's bracket correctly, but I'm still really surprised at the way it went. Do you think we'll see The Vegeterian as a zombie?"

Zombies are normally books that have the ..."

That's an interesting correlation between read counts and zombies. My bracket's intact so far, except for the play-in choice. But Version Control vs Lucy is anyone's game.

I voted Vegetarian as zombie because it was one of the few I had read at that point. But I don't think it has a great chance at being a zombie.

Rachel wrote: "Zombies are normally books that have the highest read counts, in my experience. So Underground, Lucy, Homegoing, Vegetarian, in that order."

That's interesting! So I think Homegoing will sweep the right side of the board, and probably UR will defeat Lucy when it comes to it, meaning Lucy & Vegetarian coming back as zombies if that pattern & my predictions hold.

I voted for The Vegetarian as a zombie! I hope it comes back. I still can't believe it lost to All the Birds in the Sky...

I expect UR to sweep the left side and Homegoing to sweep the right side. Based on pre-tournament hype and accolades, I'd give The Vegetarian, Lucy Barton, Moonglow, and The Nix an equal chance at being zombies.

Version Control Vs Lucy.... http://www.themorningnews.org/tob/201...

hmm. seems we are speechless.

poingu wrote: "hmm. seems we are speechless."

heehee. I know your opinion on Lucy. I'm still such a fan I just bought a copy at Powell's family & friends sale last month.