The Sword and Laser discussion

Sometimes a character does stuff you hate. And that’s OK! We explain why. Plus: great space opera, women writer picks, and some guy named Tom wrote a book too. 

http://swordandlaser.com/home/2017/3/...
https://soundcloud.com/swordandlaser/...
https://www.patreon.com/posts/8444901

The Sword & Laser podcasts about Gene Wolfe's Shadow & Claw were from March 2011:

#53 Shadow and Claw (Kick-Off)
#55 Dancing for joy about dragons (Check-In)
#57 Severian has mommy issues (Wrap-Up)

and they interviewed him on June 25th, 2013:
#134 Interview with Gene Wolfe

March MVP = Sean.

Just curious, what was the podcast that Tom mentioned that he was on where he was discussing his new book? I'm in the market for other fun podcasts to listen to help fill the empty void in my soul between S&L podcasts. Thanks!

At one point in the podcast Tom and Veronica mentioned something to the effect that a reader should not assume that a character's actions/beliefs reflect those of the writer. Tom and Veronica, as always, tried to be kind. Larry Niven once put it more plainly.

"We in the writing profession Have a technical term for people who believe that the authors believe everything their characters believe. We call them 'idiots'." -- Larry Niven

Nick wrote: "Just curious, what was the podcast that Tom mentioned that he was on where he was discussing his new book?"

Functional Nerds Podcast → http://functionalnerds.com/2017/03/ep...

Louie wrote: "Functional Nerds Podcast → http://functionalnerds.com/2017/03/ep......"

Thanks!

That's very true in a lot of ways, Clyde, but some authors do use their characters as mouthpieces. I think the classic example of that would be Ayn Rand's books--I don't think anyone could argue that Rand didn't believe what her "heroes" said.

Another potential issue would be if an author kept having the same points in repeated books; it's one thing to write it off as a jerk character in one book, but if the same behavior shows up across many books, it gives--unintentionally or not--a bad impression.

I haven't read much in the way of Pohl's stuff (I haven't started Gateway yet), but I had never heard that his other books or series were problematic. Certain authors, like Rand, have gotten themselves a reputation. Hopefully in the Gateway case, this was just a character or story that isn't written as well as it could've been to not turn people off the violence or sexism.

Thanks again for the kind words Tom & Veronica, but in this case I think it's Sean and Tassie Dave who are the ones able to reference which podcast something happened in the past.

I'm just good at organization, but I rely heavily on reminders. Like I have one on the first of the month, and I have an annual one about the March Madness, etc.

My memory for most things is awful :)

Rob wrote: "Thanks again for the kind words Tom & Veronica, but in this case I think it's Sean and Tassie Dave who are the ones able to reference which podcast something happened in the past."

Lists of and direct links to all of the older books, interviews, videos, and podcasts can always be found on the S&L wiki (when I don't forget to update it for four months). There's a handy link at the top of swordandlaser.com

Rob wrote: "My memory for most things is awful :)."

Me and Sean put everything in the Wiki so we (and everyone else) don't have to remember.

You say that, but I've seen both of you pull details out I don't recall seeing on the Wiki at times. Maybe there is a secret wiki with what was discussed at what timecode of each podcast

Rob wrote: "You say that, but I've seen both of you pull details out I don't recall seeing on the Wiki at times. Maybe there is a secret wiki with what was discussed at what timecode of each podcast"

No big mystery. For something really obscure, I'll usually use the wiki to figure out which podcast(s) I'm looking for, and then check the show notes on swordandlaser.com and/or skip through the episode(s) until I find the right section.
For Gene Wolfe, I just checked the book list to find the right month, then went the episode list find the right podcasts and links. After that, I went to the interview section and sorted the list by name. The whole thing takes five minutes if you know where to look. It helps when you're the one who organized the wiki. Of course, sometimes I just remember random things for no good reason too.

I smell cover up!

David wrote: "That's very true in a lot of ways, Clyde, but some authors do use their characters as mouthpieces. I think the classic example of that would be Ayn Rand's books--I don't think anyone could argue that Rand didn't believe what her "heroes" said.

Another potential issue would be if an author kept having the same points in repeated books; it's one thing to write it off as a jerk character in one book, but if the same behavior shows up across many books, it gives--unintentionally or not--a bad impression. ..."

I completely agree with both points. (I usually find the mouthpieces easy to spot, though.)
However, writers may deliberately choose to use an unsympathetic or broken character as a main protagonist. This is quite common in crime fiction. Robinette Broadhead and Thomas Covenant are examples in SF&F.
Some readers cannot seem to get their heads around that. It is those of which Niven speaks.