All About Books discussion

We all love quotations because they attract a short attention span, they give instant gratification. In a way quotes do what reading does in general. They confirm our perceptions, they give birth to new ideas, they confort us with the knowledge that we are not alone. We'll quote and discuss every day in this topic ...

Once French writer Jean-Paul Sartre said that "Words are loaded pistols". I agree. Do you?

Nice idea for a discussion board, Antonio.
I wish I had something profound to contribute. The quote from Satre doesn't quite satisfy me. I think of pistols as doing damage but damage from words depends on the meaning the hearer gives to the words.

Hobb's notion is closer to what I think: "Words are wise men's counters, they do but reckon by them: but they are the money of fools that value them by the authority of an Aristotle, Cicero, or a Thomas, or any other doctor whatsoever, if but a man."

But then, I'm an American, so the mention of pistols sends my thoughts off on wild tangents. : )

Of course, words carry thoughts, thoughts bring about actions, actions unfortunately bear weapons. An Italian poet said that "words are stones". But words can be caresses, aid, hope, too. Let us all careful with words. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God ...

A quotation for the night: "Marriage is the only war in which you sleep with the enemy" (Francois, Duc de La Rochefoucauld)
Francois Duc De La Rochefoucauld

Three quotes from one of my favourite authors.

"I like not only to be loved, but also to be told that I am loved. I am not sure that you are of the same mind. But the realm of silence is large enough beyond the grave. This is the world of light and speech, and I shall take leave to tell you that you are very dear" – George Eliot

"It is never too late to be what you might have been" – George Eliot

"One must be poor to know the luxury of giving!" – George Eliot

"My grandfather once told me there were two kinds of people: Those who do the work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group. There was much less competition".
(Indira Gandhi) Indira Gandhi

"You must always be drunk...But on what? Wine, poetry or virtue, as you wish. But be drunk." Baudelaire

The comment inspired this poem by Sandra Simonds http://blog.bestamericanpoetry.com/th...

I am reviving this thread with this quotation: "Age is a question of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter". No matter who said it, I'd like to hear from you discussing "mind" and "age". As far as I'm concerned, I've enough mind to stand age ...

Esther wrote: "Three quotes from one of my favourite authors.

"I like not only to be loved, but also to be told that I am loved. I am not sure that you are of the same mind. But the realm of silence is large eno..."

Esther, "I shall take leave to tell you that you are very dear". - an inspiring sentiment. Odd isn't it that giving compliments to other adults can be awkward.

Joan wrote: "Odd isn't it that giving compliments to other adults can be awkward. .."

(view spoiler)[I haven't read The Constant Gardener but from the film it seems one of the central themes is the 'great love' of the central couple. Yet in life she treated him as if she hardly cared about his existance and only after her death he finds a letter telling him how much she loved him.
I know this is consdiered terribly romantic but to me it is a crock. (hide spoiler)] If you really care about someone you treat them with affection and respect and show them that you value them as a human being.

"The height of cleverness is to be able to conceal it"
(La Rochefoucauld)

"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober" (W. B. Yeats)

"Women keep a special corner of their hearts for sins they have never committed" (Cornelia O. Skinner)

This is a quotation from an article in the NYT about the importance of reading books one doesn't like:

"Reading what you hate helps you refine what it is you value, whether it’s a style, a story line or an argument. Because books are long-form, they require more of the writer and the reader than a talk show or Facebook link. You can finish watching a movie in two hours and forget about it; not so a novel. Sticking it out for 300 pages means immersing yourself in another person’s world and discovering how it feels. That’s part of what makes books you despise so hard to dismiss. Rather than toss the book aside, turn to the next page and wrestle with its ideas ..."

What do you think?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/15/op...

Antonio wrote: "This is a quotation from an article in the NYT about the importance of reading books one doesn't like:

"Reading what you hate helps you refine what it is you value, whether it’s a style, a story ..."

I try to watch films and read books I find challenging. It stimulates the mind to define exactly why you find a certain attitude or behaviour so repugnant.

"A curious thing about written literature: It is about four thousand years old, but we have no way of knowing whether four thousand years constitutes senility or the maiden blush of youth".

John Barth: A Body of Words

"I love quotations. Maybe it's a symptom of a short-attention-span, instant gratification age, but I'm a sucker for a well-stated tidbit of brevity and wit. For me, quotes do with precision what reading does in general: they confirm the astuteness of my perceptions, they open the way to ideas, and they console me with the knowledge that I'm not alone". (Jon Winokur)

Writers On Writing

About imagination and inspiration. I don't know why my imagination takes me where it does. I just feel so lucky to get a single idea for a novel that I can write about. When I get one, my ruminations and daydreaming grow and lead to other things and I feel that there is a book there. I'm just fortunate that I want to write it. I've never had more than one idea for a book at a time". (Joseph Heller)

Just One Catch: A Biography of Joseph Heller

"Books are the carriers of civilisation. Without books, history is silent, literature dumb, science crippled, thought and speculation at a standstill. Without books, the development of civilisation would have been impossible. They are engines of change, windows on the world, "lighthouses" (as a poet said) erected in the sea of time". They are companions, teachers, magicians, bankers of the treasures of the mind. Books are humanity in print".

Practicing History: Selected Essays

I'm reading Marcel Proust as part of an "All About Books" group challenge, which led me to a thought provoking Op-Ed piece related to Proust's Dreyfus Affair theme
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/22/op...

“ ‘Jew’ is a funny word,” the comedian Louis C. K. once said, “because ‘Jew’ is the only word that is the polite thing to call a group of people and the slur for the same group.”

What is your reaction to Louis C.K.'s statement?

I would agree with Louis C.K.

If a non-Jew calls me a Jew I normally listen out for subtext because an awfully large percentage of the time it is intended as a subtle (often not so subtle) insult or accusation.
To avoid this Jews often describe themselves as Jewish rather than Jews.

Maybe I was more exposed to such attitudes when I lived in England because, as described by my Hebrew school teacher, I indulged in 'risky behaviour' by being openly proud of my Jewish heritage even though most of the people in my school and social circle were non-Jews.

At one time when you Googled 'Jew' most of the first page linked to some very unsavoury websites. Now Google has tweaked their algorithm so it doesn't happen.

Joan wrote: "I'm reading Marcel Proust as part of an "All About Books" group challenge, which led me to a thought provoking Op-Ed piece related to Proust's Dreyfus Affair theme
https://www.nytim..."

The Bard would ask: "What's in a word?" ...

About plagiarism:

"When a thing has been said and well said, have no scruple, take and copy it. Get reference? Why should you? Either your readers know where you have taken the passage and the precaution is needless, or they do not know and you humiliate them".
(Anatole France)
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"The difference between a bad artist and a good one is: The bad artist seems to copy a great deal; the good one really does". (Wlliam Blake)
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"Every man is a borrower and mimic, life is theatrical and literature a quotation".
(Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Art of Plagiarism

Esther wrote: "I would agree with Louis C.K.

If a non-Jew calls me a Jew I normally listen out for subtext because an awfully large percentage of the time it is intended as a subtle (often not so subtle) insult ..."

I know what you mean. As a non-Jewish person I reconstruct sentences so I don't use the word. The OpEd author believes that well-meaning people should reclaim the word.

Antonio wrote: "Joan wrote: "I'm reading Marcel Proust as part of an "All About Books" group challenge, which led me to a thought provoking Op-Ed piece related to Proust's Dreyfus Affair theme
http..."

A rose by another name would still have thorns

Joan wrote: "Antonio wrote: "Joan wrote: "I'm reading Marcel Proust as part of an "All About Books" group challenge, which led me to a thought provoking Op-Ed piece related to Proust's Dreyfus A..."

A sepal, petal, and a thorn
Upon a common summer's morn—
A flask of Dew—A Bee or two—
A Breeze—a caper in the trees—
And I'm a Rose!
(Emily Dickinson)

Joan wrote: "Esther wrote: "I would agree with Louis C.K.

If a non-Jew calls me a Jew I normally listen out for subtext because an awfully large percentage of the time it is intended as a subtle (often not so ..."

With present attitudes around the world I don't think that now is the time :(

Joan wrote: "The OpEd author believes that well-meaning people should reclaim the word..."

With present attitudes around the world I don't think that now is the time :(

Antonio wrote: "About plagiarism:
"When a thing has been said and well said, have no scruple, take and copy it. Get reference? Why should you? Either your readers know where you have taken the passage and the precaution is needless, or they do not know and you humiliate them". (Anatole France)

I would say that what Anatole France is talking about is a literary or cultural reference or allusion.

Which begs the question, what is the deference between referencing another literary work and plagiarising it?
Is it a reference when the work is public domain or a classic but becomes plagiarising when you reference more modern work without giving explicit credit?
Is Joan's comment "A rose by another name would still have thorns" simply not plagiarism because we assume everyone will know where the quote comes from?

Esther wrote: "Antonio wrote: "About plagiarism:
"When a thing has been said and well said, have no scruple, take and copy it. Get reference? Why should you? Either your readers know where you have taken the pas..."

About plagiarism, I'd like here to quote Thornton Wilder who once wrote: "I do borrow from other writers, shamelessly! I can only say in my defence, like the woman brought before the judge on a charge of kleptomania, "I do steal, but, Your Honour, only from the very best stores".

I'm convinced, however, that when Ortega y Gasset said that "Original or plagiarist, man is the novelist of himself" he was right. All life is built on plagiarism, it all depends on this inborn, human skill, when it becomes "art" ...

I'm giving you a very brief quote to ponder on: "We are more anxious to speak than to be heard" (Henry David Thoreau 1817-1862).

Antonio wrote: "I'm convinced, however, that when Ortega y Gasset said that "Original or plagiarist, man is the novelist of himself" he was right. All life is built on plagiarism, it all depends on this inborn, human skill, when it becomes "art" ...."

I would agree.
How many people regularly quote lines from movies in real life. Quoting Shakespeare and the Bible often happens without us even noticing.

Esther wrote: "Antonio wrote: "I'm convinced, however, that when Ortega y Gasset said that "Original or plagiarist, man is the novelist of himself" he was right. All life is built on plagiarism, it all depends on..."

Interesting your quoting from movies in real life ...

Antonio wrote: "Esther wrote: "Antonio wrote: "I'm convinced, however, that when Ortega y Gasset said that "Original or plagiarist, man is the novelist of himself" he was right. All life is built on plagiarism, it..."

Maybe it is because I assosciate a lot with geeks - 'Make it so', 'that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.' 'I find your lack of faith disturbing.' etc are in regular use.
But 'normal' Israelis do it all the time too. When I visited my cousins in 1989 they basically spoke in 'Top Gun' quotes and people frequently quote old Israeli films and comedians.
For anyone my age if you say 'seven' someone will reply 'What seven?' because it is part of a very famous comic sketch.

Esther wrote: "Antonio wrote: "Esther wrote: "Antonio wrote: "I'm convinced, however, that when Ortega y Gasset said that "Original or plagiarist, man is the novelist of himself" he was right. All life is built o..."

I often find myself thinking whether I'm living life in reality or in a movie ...

Esther wrote: "I would agree with Louis C.K.

If a non-Jew calls me a Jew I normally listen out for subtext because an awfully large percentage of the time it is intended as a subtle (often not so subtle) insult ..."

I have always used the word Jewish, probably because we have very, very close family friends (my parents generation--they are like family to me), but even before that (they met when I was 10) that's what my parents said. I agree that the word Jew is much more loaded most of the time. I met my first Jewish friend (I grew up in a very tiny place on the Canadian west coast that didn't have too many Jewish people until I got older--it was many Protestants, Catholics and then the Sechelt band who may have had some people still practising their traditional religion, but I was rather oblivious to it since my friends from the reserve were Catholic) when I moved to California for 2 years at the age of 9.

"There are some people who read too much: the bibliobibuli. I know some who are constantly drunk on books, as other men are drunk on whiskey or religion. They wander through this most diverting worlds in a haze, seeing nothing and hearing nothing". (H. L. Mencken)

The Diary of H. L. Mencken

"Kill a man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you are a god". (Jean Rostand - 1894-1977)

Humanly possible; a biologist's notes on the future of mankind

Talking about originality:

"Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again" (Andrè Gide)

"Everything has been thought of before, but the problem is to think of it again" (Goethe)

"Originality is nothing but judicious imitation. The most original writers borrowed from one another. The instruction we find in books is like fire. We fetch it from our neighbours, kindle it at home, communicate it to others, and it becomes the property of all" (Voltaire)

Writers On Writing

"The animal is ignorant of the fact that he knows. The man is aware of the fact that he is ignorant." (Victor Hugo)
Victor Hugo: A Biography

"Literature is the question minus the answer" (Roland Barthes)

Mythologies

"Authors - essayist, atheist, novelist,
realist, rhymster, play your part,
Paint the mortal shame of nature
with living hues of Art.
Rip your brothers' vices open, strip
your own foul passions bare;
Down with Reticence, down with Reverence -
forward - naked . let them stare.

(Alfred, Lord Tennyson)

Selected Poems

"A good writer is not, per se, a good book critic. No more than a good drunk is automatically a good bartender". (Jim Bishop)

Writers On Writing

"One writes to find words' meanings" (Joy Williams)

The Visiting Privilege: New and Collected Stories

"Men are not hanged for stealing horses, but that horses may not be stolen". (George Savile, Marquis de Halifax, 1633-1695)

The Works of George Savile, Marquis of Halifax. Volume I

Philosophy of Elbert Hubbard

"To escape criticism - do nothing, say nothing, be nothing".
(Elbert Hubbard 1856-1915)

"Dogma does not mean the absence of thought, but the end of thought" (G. K. Chesterton, 1874-1936)
The Collected Works of G.K. Chesterton Volume 01: Heretics, Orthodoxy, the Blatchford Controversies

"Don't lie, but don't tell the whole truth. Nothing requires more skill than the truth, which is like a letting of blood from the heart. It takes skill both to speak it and to withhold it. A single lie can destroy your reputation for honesty. The man deceived seems faulty, and the deceiver seems false, which is worse. Not all truths can be spoken: some should be silenced for your own sake, others for the sake of someone else." (Baltasar Gracian)

The Art of Worldly Wisdom

"Character and Intelligence. The poles your talent spins on, displaying your gifts. One without the other brings only half of success. It isn't enough to be intelligent; you must also have the right character. The fool fails by behaving without regard to his condition, position, origin, or friendships"." (Baltasar Gracian)

The Art of Worldly Wisdom

Know Yourself - in talents and capacity, in judgment and inclination. You cannot master yourself unless you know yourself. There are mirrors for the face but none for the mind. Let careful thought about yourself serve as a substitute. When the outer image is forgotten, keep the inner one to improve and perfect. Learn the force of your intellect and capacity for affairs, test the force of your courage in order to apply it, and keep your foundations secure and your head clear for everything. ((Baltasar Gracian)

Joan wrote: ""You must always be drunk...But on what? Wine, poetry or virtue, as you wish. But be drunk." Baudelaire

The comment inspired this poem by Sandra Simonds http://blog.bestamericanpoetry.com/th......"

Intoxication means love, and love is dangerous.