Victorians! discussion
Poetry Archives
>
In Memoriam Week 1
date
newest »
newest »
This is a magnificent poem or set of poems, indeed! Looking forward to our discussion.I've been looking at the comments about the Prologue in the earlier thread:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...
Everyman, I'm interested in your comment there about the similarity with the opening of Paradise Lost and Milton's attempt to "justify the ways of God to man".
I think there is a lot of ambiguity here, as you suggest. These lines, which you mention, also stood out to me - which, on the face of it, say that God has conquered death -
Thou madest Death; and lo, thy foot
Is on the skull which thou hast made.
But that vivid image of the foot on the skull shows the reality of death - followed by the image of dust in the next stanza, which made me think of "ashes to ashes, dust to dust"
Then there is that "thou art just" at the end of the next stanza, which again is praise and yet has a bitter ring to it - like in Robert Browning's Andrea del Sarto, which we discussed here a little while ago, where he says:
Inside the melancholy little house
We built to be so gay with. God is just.
I wondered if they are both remembering a specific Bible verse but couldn't find it.
Judy wrote: ".I think there is a lot of ambiguity here, as you suggest. These lines, which you mention, also stood out to me - which, on the face of it, say that God has conquered death -Thou madest Death; and lo, thy foot
Is on the skull which thou hast made..."
My margin notes from my first year English course (50 y ago), which I assume were from my prof, say "belief in immortality". Perhaps that the "Strong Son of God" has the ability to crush death itself? Or at least we hope so. Surely, surely, He would not make us just to "leave us in the dust"??
The form of the poem is quite interesting. It is in Iambic, which means feet of two syllables, strong-weak (or more technically, unstressed-stressed), but instead of the much more common iambic pentameter -- five feet per line -- he uses Iambic tetrameter, only four feet to a line. The difference may seem minor, but in fact it works remarkably differently in the ear. Pentameter for some reason, perhaps just common experience, perhaps something more physical than that in the brain -- sounds somehow right to us.
The long day wanes: the slow moon climbs: the deep
Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends,
'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.
(Tennyson, Ulysses)
By contrast, the tetrameter sounds, at least to me, more choppy, less comforting, more in a way immediate.
Old Yew, which graspest at the stones
That name the under-lying dead,
Thy fibres net the dreamless head,
Thy roots are wrapt about the bones.
The other interesting thing about the form Tennyson uses is the rhyme scheme. It's not one of the more common rhyme schemes in English poetry, but is abba, which like the tetrameter sounds unusual, somehow "off" in our ear.
Tennyson believed, I understand, that he invented this combination of tetrameter and rhyme scheme. In fact, it had been used before, but only rarely. But it has the effect, particularly in the ear of those who are more used to the common forms and rhyme schemes of English poetry, of being startling, somewhat unsettling. Which I think is Tennyson's purpose; this is not an elegy to celebrate or mourn a death in traditional and familiar form (like the comfort of the traditional Christian burial service), but is more visceral, more intense.
That, at least, is the way I experience it. How about you?
The opening phrase is, I find, noteworthy. This is not an epic, which traditionally starts with an invocation to the Muse, the goddesses of poetry, to aid the poet:The Iliad:
Sing of Achilles wrath, o heavenly muse...
The Odyssey:
Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turns ...
Paradise Lost:
OF Mans First Disobedience, ...
Sing Heav'nly Muse,
But Tennyson starts out directly addressing Christ:
Strong Son of God, immortal Love,
Several things are striking here, but not the least that opening word: Strong.
In the iambic form, the first syllable of a line should be unstressed, or weak. If there is a strong first syllable, it's normally a single syllable, not a two syllable iamb as for example:
This is my son, mine own Telemachus
or
Far on the ringing plains of windy Troy.
But he starts right out with an iamb of two stressed syllables -- there's a name for this, but I don't recall it at the moment -- and not only is the first syllable strong, but it is the word strong. A double hit that I have no doubt was very intentional. The two S words make us say the line more slowly and deliberately than it would otherwise sound -- you can't say those two word quickly, or elide them. Tennyson starts right out bam-bam.
Strong seems to me an unusual word to use there. Strong isn't normally a word associated with Christ. A more "normal" opening by a weaker poet might have been "O Son of God, Immortal Love," or "Thou Son of God, Immortal Love." Neither of which has nearly the impact on the ear and mind of "Strong Son of God, Immortal Love."
We need no more than this first line to realize what an extraordinary poet Tennyson is, and what a journey he will be taking us on.
Mod
This page from the British Library doesn't answer your question, Renee, but it has some interesting information about the composition of the poem. Some excerpts:
Tennyson wrote the separate poems that became In Memoriam over a long period of time, as he recalled phases of the friendship. Indeed, the earliest section dates from 6 October 1833.
It was not Tennyson’s original intention to weave together the separate poems, or to publish them, but eventually they were arranged into a coherent whole.
The sections that Tennyson wrote first were 9 [about the ship bringing Hallam's body home], 27,30, 31, and 85. At this stage he seems to have been experimenting. Manuscript fragments show that some of the stanzas were written with four lines, with the rhyme pattern abab, and others with five. The metre was iambic tetrameter. In the final version the stanzas are isometric, i.e. composed of lines of uniform length, and quatrains of iambic tetrameter follow the rhyme scheme abba. Interestingly Tennyson later confessed: ‘I believed myself the originator of the metre, until after In Memoriam came out, when some one told me that Ben Jonson and Sir Philip Sidney had used it.’
https://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victo...
Renee wrote: "Does anyone know when the prologue was added?Wikipedia claims it is thought to be one of the last sections written. But there's no citation to that, so take it as you will.
We're famous! On a Google search for information on the dating of the prologue, this is one of the first page links:In Memoriam Part 1 - Prologue through XXVII (27) - to the ... - Goodreads
www.goodreads.com/.../911276-in-memor...---...
Everyman said: This is the thread for discussing the first part of In Memoriam. ... It's a prologue in retrospect, written years after the fact—after he's already moved ...
Mod
I've been reading a lot of Romantic poetry lately, so I was struck by the solemnity and peacefulness of the prologue (as compared with the more wild Romantics). It seems so neat and tidy. But, then Tennyson ends the prologue with-Forgive these wild and wandering cries,
Confusions of a wasted youth;
Forgive them where they fail in truth,
And in thy wisdom make me wise.
I'm wondering if the poem will be come more "wild and wandering" as we read further? I also wonder about how or who will "fail in truth?" I think it's interesting that Tennyson gave us this hint of disorder at the end of the prologue.
Hollyinnnv wrote: "I'm wondering if the poem will be come more "wild and wandering" as we read further? I also wonder about how or who will "fail in truth?"."And why does he consider his a wasted youth?
Gosh, I thought he meant his friend's wasted youth. But reading it again, I think you are right. I wonder if he thinks it is wasted in comparison to his dead friend. Kind of like having survivors guilt?
Renee wrote: "Does anyone know when the prologue was added? I agree that the word choice underscores Tennyson's mastery of language and sound, but I'm curious as to when in his process (grief or writing) he was ..."My edition says 1849. Which would make it one of the last sections to be written. Just before publication. To me, this reads as an invocation--to God, and, I think, to the reader. A prayer for acceptance of this offering.
I think the "wasted youth" refers to the almost 20 years spent mourning Hallam. Tennyson's extreme grief was almost an addiction, perhaps. In section V, he compares the writing of poetry to taking narcotics.
The sad mechanic exercise,My introduction refers to twenty years of his life passed in "obscurity and neglect." From our point of view not wasted, but from his?
Like dull narcotics, numbing pain.
The note in my edition to "wasted" is that it means "desolated" not squandered. Tennyson, in addition to mourning Hallam, had many desolations in his youth. I like section 1 in which Tennyson speaks of how difficult it is to envision a future and "find in loss a gain to match". It's true: how can one perceive the benefit of mourning and melancholy when one is in the midst of it?
The line "To dance with death, to beat the ground" is very powerful.
Natalie wrote: "The note in my edition to "wasted" is that it means "desolated" not squandered. Tennyson, in addition to mourning Hallam, had many desolations in his youth. I like section 1 in which Tennyson spe..."
Yes. That does work better. Like The Waste Land. My introduction says the this work was a direct inheritor of Tennyson's work.
The last stanza of section IV resonated with me.Such clouds of nameless trouble cross
All night below the darken'd eyes;
With morning wakes the will, and cries,
'Thou shalt not be the fool of loss.'
It does seem that grief is heightened at night. I wonder why that is? Maybe it is the end of the day and I'm tired? Maybe I finally stop to rest and begin thinking? And then all feels restored in the morning, just like Tennyson describes.
Mod
My Norton edition tells me that the "dying sun" refers to the recent theory that the sun was burning itself out, but I'm not sure what to make of the rest of the stanza. Is he railing against the emptiness/blindness/ruthlessness of Nature? Is he debating whether to accept the impartial cruelty of Nature, or to (somehow) fight against it?
If anyone has any insight into his meaning here, I'd appreciate hearing it!
Cindy wrote: "Is he railing against the emptiness/blindness/ruthlessness of Nature? Is he debating whether to accept the impartial cruelty of Nature, or to (somehow) fight against it? .."The middle two stanzas are Sorrow whispering to the writer, with her view of the universe and Nature as desolate and "hollow". But does Sorrow tell the truth?
Everyman wrote: "This page from the British Library doesn't answer your question, Renee, but it has some interesting information about the composition of the poem. https://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victo...
.."
What a fabulous resource. Thank you.
Mod
The midd..."
Thanks, Ginny! That helps. So Sorrow is telling him that Nature is a husk, a facade, empty and without real meaning. I take it that when he's trying to decide whether to "embrace her" or "crush her," he's talking about Sorrow and not Nature?
Everyman wrote: "This page from the British Library doesn't answer your question, Renee, but it has some interesting information about the composition of the poem. Some excerpts:
Tennyson wrote the separate poems..."
At the link you provided I read this quote by Tennyson's son Hallam, explaining what Tennyson had told him.
It must be remembered that this is a poem, not an actual biography…The different moods of sorrow as in a drama are dramatically given, and my conviction that fear, doubts, and suffering will find answer and relief only through Faith in a God of Love. “I” is not always the author speaking of himself, but the voice of the human race speaking through him.
I find the last sentence most interesting. He's giving a singular voice to the human race. Kind of puts me in mind of the Greek chorus.
Cindy wrote: "I take it that when he's trying to decide whether to "embrace her" or "crush her," he's talking about Sorrow and not Nature?."That's my reading. I find this section (III) so powerful. Full of strength. To even be able to to think this way when in the grip of Sorrow would be a triumph, even if the thinker could only get there in little spurts.
Hollyinnnv wrote: "I find the last sentence most interesting. He's giving a singular voice to the human race. Kind of puts me in mind of the Greek chorus. ."Interesting connection. Also reminds me a bit of Whitman. He has that same sense of an I that is bigger than himself.
Everyman wrote: "By contrast, the tetrameter sounds, at least to me, more choppy, less comforting, more in a way immediate. ..."I am feeling the motion of the ship on the water very powerfully in Lyrics 9--12, and I am wondering if this is partly due to the meter and the abba rhyme scheme and short line structure. A swelling, a pulling back, and a swelling again. Then from lyric to lyric--almost a violence, then a "calm" as in X and XI. The way the process of dealing with loss really is. Anger and despair, then Calm.
Calm on the seas, and silver sleep,
And waves that sway themselves in rest,
And dead calm in that noble breast
Which heaves but with the heaving deep."
Was doing some re-reading last night and Canto 6 struck me as it hadn't before, particularly right after reading of Deborah's sad and unexpected loss. The realization that the commonality of death makes an individual death of a loved one worse, not better. And the well meaning condolences of friends which are no comfort, at least to him -- the "vacant chaff well meant for grain." This was, I admit, sometimes my feeling on the loss of my father -- condolences meant for valuable grain, but feeling vacant in my heart.
And particularly interesting is his long (for an IM canto) passage on the maiden waiting for her lover, making herself more attractive for him, thinking how much he will like to see the ribbon or rose i her hair, not yet knowing him dead, return, and then that terrible, terrible ending stanza
O what to her shall be the end?
And what to me remains of good?
To her, perpetual maidenhood,
And unto me no second friend.
Both young at the moment of loss, she will never marry, and he will never find another friend.
We hope they are both wrong, and that eventually their grief will subside and they will, not forgetting but with life eventually reasserting itself, find another lover or friend, but at the moment of loss that seems so utterly impossible. What a tragic place to be if one were truly left there for the rest of their long lives.
Everyman wrote: "The realization that the commonality of death makes an individual death of a loved one worse, not better.."This canto was very moving to me and the one I have reread the most from the beginning section. I like how Tennyson is able in this section to show how grief and mourning and death is common to all human experience, but it is also incredibly unique as it is a personal emotion of loss that only he is enduring.
I found this blog entry interesting:
http://robmack.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06...
I appreciated your look at the form of the poem, Everyman, as it is something I am weak on. I suppose if we had the time to close read the poem it would be interesting to look at which specific words the stresses fall on.
Was he experimenting with an uncommon form in English poetry, the rhymed tetrameter, because he wanted something new to make this expression of grief stand out, normal modes of poetry are not enough for him?
Clari wrote: "Was he experimenting with an uncommon form in English poetry, the rhymed tetrameter, because he wanted something new to make this expression of grief stand out, normal modes of poetry are not enough for him? ."That's a great question I wish I knew the answer to.
It's time to start our journey through this magnificent poem, or really set of poems. Because IM was not originally intended as a single poem, but is a series of 133 separate poems written over a period of many years, all dealing in some way with, as we discussed in the background thread, the death of Hallam and Tennyson's attempts to deal with that death, including his crisis of faith.
At some point, Tennyson decided to stitch the poems, or cantos, together into a single long work, and in my opinion it worked magnificently. But that's part of what we will be exploring over the next eight weeks.
So let's begin.