Fairy Godreaders discussion

I've made this topic broad enough so that even if we seem to wander off tangentially, chances are good that we'll still be in its broader confines. :-)

I'm guessing you're referring to the unconscious Britishisms that crept into the speech of American characters in The Scottish Movie? I noticed a lot of that too, but used my imagination to explain it away. I decided that his mother was British and he got them from her when he was too young to know the difference. The other characters too. All of them had English mothers. All of them. Problem solved.

You're liking it anyway, right? If not, I hope you finally bought your own copy. Otherwise, you're sampling the longest preview on earth.

I still intend to buy my own copy, though I wish Smashwords didn't guilt-trip people away from lending copies to each other. I'd actually planned to buy a copy through my public library. They used to have a program for their ebooks and audios where if they didn't have a copy of something you wanted to check out, you could sponsor a purchase of it for their collection and have the first dibs on reading it. I was going to do that, but apparently, that option isn't there anymore.

But never mind that, you're right about the stray Britishisms in The Scottish Movie. I was trying to decide whether to keep track of them and approach the writer to see if he wanted to know about them or not. But since you've solved the problem with a massive injection of English motherhood, it might not be necessary.

And yes, I am liking it very much, though occasionally I want to shake the guy and say, "Seriously man??!! You've got a good case and now you're endangering lives and just being impulsive and stupid." But I do that to everybody for the slightest of reasons.

I'll let you know for sure how I liked it when I'm all done. In the meantime, you didn't review it; why not?

And now to Standing Stones, which I finished and liked very much. I was distracted only by a couple of things:

1) Would Orkney natives refer to the province/district/region/archipelago/whatever-it-is as Orkney or The Orkneys? The book's characters does the latter, which I thought was something no self-respecting Orcadian would ever say to refer to themselves, though there might be some historical precedent.
2) Why a book that does an excellent job in describing the Highland Clearances wouldn't use, you know, the actual Highlands, as the setting rather than Orkney, which if my smattering of history of the latter indicates, was largely spared most of those horrors? That's assuming also that my befuddled American sense of geography rightly sees the Highlands and Orkney as two different geographical and cultural entities within Scotland, which is a major assumption in itself.

The author, Beth Camp, does a very fine job of presenting the issues from various points of view, though I have to admit she baffled the heck out of me when the Orkney fisher family she very nicely brought to life walked to Selkirk for supplies. She sent me running for the maps again, which confirmed that the only real places that Wikipedia knew of (oh, hush!) were in the borderlands with England or Canada, and not nearly walking distance from anywhere, real or imagined, in Orkney. But to be honest, the only thing I know about Orkney is that it's where the hotheads in King Arthur stories come from, supplemented with a little bit of scholarship (oh hush!) from, ahem, Wikipedia and travel sites.

The author, an American, did spend a few months in Kirkwall, and much of her intense scenes of the Clearance in the narrative does line up with what I read in historical sources, albeit occurring in real life further south in Southerland, or whatever they call it then/now in the Highlands, and not on the islands.

I do very much recommend it to read; she's wonderful at description. But even so, those two things, and the impulsive romance thing that I fuss about in everything I read, are something to consider, but not enough to prevent someone to read it. It's a good book, and I've already put the sequel in my To-Read. If you can find some way to make 19th century English mothers - no, Scottish mothers! - no, Orkney mothers, explain the inconsistencies, that would make a good story excellent!

P.J. wrote: "...And yes, I am liking it very much, though occasionally I want to shake the guy and say, "Seriously man??!! You've got a good case and now you're endangering lives and just being impulsive and stupid." But I do that to everybody for the slightest of reasons.

I'll let you know for sure how I liked it when I'm all done. In the meantime, you didn't review it; why not?"

Because enough people have reviewed it already, so I didn't need to. And I'm lazy. You review it. You're reading a copy that I paid for, so that can be your dues. But I will make sure it's listed here as FG-recommended.

What do you think about "anyways" from The Scottish Movie? Is that a British-thing slipping through or do you suppose it's a California thing? I think the writer did say in his profile that he spent some time in San Francisco.

Oh yeah, "anyways" definitely caught my eye. It was another point where I suddenly fell out of the story briefly because of an unexpected usage. I found those times more fascinating than frustrating though.
Authentic dialog for particular places and time must be extremely hard if you're not a native, or if you don't want to bog down a piece set in the past by saddling with too many things that sound awkward to modern ears. I invented an entire country in my books just to avoid having to deal with it. I'm lazy too.:-)

Anyway, I had the feeling that anyways was neither a common British usage nor a California one. I have the feeling that it might be what a British writer might think is generic American usage, though I have no facts to base that upon.

I have heard anyways used, but can't remember where. I don't hear it often, so I'm thinking it's a regionalism. Maybe Midwest? Upper Midwest? I actually looked around for a dialect map, because I know I've heard some Americans with that usage somewhere. I haven't narrowed it down yet. Here are some fun links while you're wondering though:

http://www4.uwm.edu/FLL/linguistics/d...
http://www.neatorama.com/2013/06/07/D...

P.J. wrote: "I've made this topic broad enough so that even if we seem to wander off tangentially, chances are good that we'll still be in its broader confines. :-)"

I saw that you finished the second Marsali Taylor book. I'll add it to our bookshelf here since you seem to like it. I'll add them to my reading lists, but I'll wait to buy when I buy everything else I want to read. I'm broke lately.

I've found some freebies I can send you. They're not Scots related though. We'll have to start a new discussion topic.

P.J. wrote: "I've found some freebies I can send you. They're not Scots related though. We'll have to start a new discussion topic."

I'm already starting a new one now. I had to figure out where to put it. I know you said you didn't want your books promoted here or treated any differently if you joined the group and we got GR-friendly. But I don't think it's a conflict of interest because:

1 - I'm not promoting or marketing you any more or less than anybody else. I've just got to have something besides reading statuses and private messages to ask you things like "WHY DID YOU LET ANTS EAT HALF HER FACE?? Killing her would have been more merciful!! What the hell is wrong with you!? (We love ya though. Kisses!!)
2 - I'm going to put the topic in the Writers at the Party section, so it could be a drop-in talky place for other writers that get read here.
3 - Do you really think anyone cares anyway? No one reads it but us.

Not quite what I had in mind, but whatever. I did enable the Q & A bit on my profile page, so you could use that. As for what's wrong with me, I have no idea. I just wrote what the little voices in my head told me to and sometimes learned the arc of the story as I read what I typed. But I did plead with the other characters to help her once I realized what was happening to her. They got right on it.

I do like the idea of #2, not for me necessarily, but certainly for other writers. As for #3, I suspect you're right and I should stop fretting over things that don't matter in the long run. (Edited May 10th 2015 to remove link to a page that has been removed.)

I've just read a good book, by a woman in Alaska whose main male was Scottish. She used a lot of Scottish dialogue, some of which, as a Brit caused me to raise an eyebrow. It was however a good book and I intend to read more from the author.Wired For Sound

Diana wrote: "I've just read a good book, by a woman in Alaska whose main male was Scottish. She used a lot of Scottish dialogue, some of which, as a Brit caused me to raise an eyebrow. It was however a good boo..."

It's certainly a tricky thing. Outsiders to a dialect hear patterns and rhythms that a native speaker is unaware of, so in one sense they could be giving an objective portrayal. But I don't think it happens often, likely because the outsiders process those patterns unconsciously in relation to their own language customs and cultural preconception. While we think we're objectively listening, we might just be overlaying what we think a Scots would sound like (or a Californian or whatever), and aren't really paying full attention.

It's very hard to get right, I imagine. Language is only partly about hearing and very much about cognitive processing. There's a lot of cultural filtering involved and so what sounds right to the writer often sounds wrong or weird to the reader. I don't know what the answer is except to keep listening as carefully as possible, to sounds as well as content, and be open when those who perceive it differently point it out. Now I'm off to investigate Wired for Sound. :-)

If you like books built around very realistic characters - you'll like it. The language worked in its own way, but I doubt a true Scot would recognise it! The best indi I've read this year is the one by Robert Swisher, I put on the book shelf. I think I was the first person to review it & I raved about it. Several other reviewers have written better reviews about what I tried to say about it.

P.J. wrote: "Diana wrote: "I've just read a good book, by a woman in Alaska whose main male was Scottish. She used a lot of Scottish dialogue, some of which, as a Brit caused me to raise an eyebrow. It was howe..."

Oh comment below should have been here as a reply. Duh. Ahhh - except its above now.

Ha-ha-ha !! I read your review of Swisher's book. It's good. (See? I don't always use the Reply feature either!)

P.J. wrote: "Ha-ha-ha !! I read your review of Swisher's book. It's good. (See? I don't also use the Reply feature either!)"

I remembered this time. And to write down the group title so I can find you all again. Off to do some reading. Reading an interesting book,The Other Side of Horse Racing. So far very impressed at how he's captured the thrill of a racetrack and how this excitement fills the void in a young impressionable boy's life. Will let you know what I think when finished.

I'm chagrined to discover this interesting discussion thread which somehow escaped my awareness entirely . . . so here's my effort to respond nearly a year later (oh, the joys of technology).

P.J. wrote: "And now to Standing Stones, which I finished and liked very much. I was distracted only by a couple of things:

1) Would Orkney natives refer to the province/district/region/archipe..."

Did I get into trouble over this one! Apparently the argument over how to refer to the Orkney Islands (the preferred reference) has raged on. Using "the Orkneys" (which sounded deliciously colloquial to me, drawn as I am to informal speech), is simply wrong, wrong, wrong. But people still say "the Orkneys."

2) Why a book that does an excellent job in describing the Highland Clearances wouldn't use, you know, the actual Highlands, as the setting rather than Orkney, which if my smattering of history of the latter indicates, was largely spared most of those horrors?

Because this was my first foray into historical fiction, I wanted to stay away from fictionalizing actual events. Even Foulksay Island is imaginary (as was the little town on Foulksay which I dubbed Selkirk). Another factoid, I borrowed the name of Westness from the Traill family; still in use as Westness Farm on Rousay.

The Clearances happened all over Scotland and England as the Industrial Revolution transformed the British economy. Such evictions of farmers did occur at Trumland on Rousay in (forgive me) the Orkneys, though not as extensive as the infamous evictions on the Sutherland estate in northeastern Scotland. The two most useful books for me were John Prebble's The Highland Clearances and T. C. Smout's A Century of the Scottish People, 1830-1950.

Thank you for your questions, P.J.

PS I also read stuff in Wikipedia and have been known to edit . . .

Speaking of edit, I see I need to do a little bit for my entry of August 25th 2014 above. It's been a long time since I've seen this whole topic thread and Faerie did delete the topic page I referenced as I requested. (She'd made it for topics and comments about my writing while she was reading it.) I realized just now when I skimmed through all of these when I saw there was an unread entry from you that it was now a link going nowhere. I'll fix that right now, and then meet you on your page. (And no worries about seeing this whole thing until now; all of this went on before you joined the group.