The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

The finalists

- Wicked Weeds: A Zombie Novel by Pedro Cabiya, translated from the Spanish by Jessica Powell (Dominican Republic, Mandel Vilar Press)

- Chronicle of the Murdered House by Lúcio Cardoso, translated from the Portuguese by Margaret Jull Costa and Robin Patterson (Brazil, Open Letter Books)

- Eve out of Her Ruins by Ananda Devi, translated from the French by Jeffrey Zuckerman (Mauritius, Deep Vellum)

- Zama by Antonio di Benedetto, translated from the Spanish by Esther Allen (Argentina, New York Review Books)

- Doomi Golo--The Hidden Notebooks by Boubacar Boris Diop, translated from the Wolof by Vera Wülfing-Leckie and El Hadji Moustapha Diop (Senegal, Michigan State University Press)

- War and Turpentine by Stefan Hertmans, translated from the Dutch by David McKay (Belgium, Pantheon)

- Umami by Laia Jufresa, translated from the Spanish by Sophie Hughes (Mexico, Oneworld)

- Oblivion by Sergi Lebedev, translated from the Russian by Antonina W. Bouis (Russia, New Vessel Press)

- Ladivine: A Novel by Marie NDiaye, translated from the French by Jordan Stump (France, Knopf)

- Among Strange Victims by Daniel Saldaña Paris, translated from the Spanish by Christina MacSweeney (Mexico, Coffee House Press)

Pleased to see Ladivine there. Mystified to see War and Turpentine there.

Haven't read the other 8 yet - although Zama, Chronicle of the Murdered House and Oblivion were on my reading list from what I'm hearing, Eve out of her Ruins seems to attract mixed views with some loving it.

I just finished War and Turpentine and I'm a bit surprised to see it here. War fiction is not really my thing and had this not shown up on both this and the MBI longlist I wouldn't have read it. It felt muddled to me. I liked the middle part the best but some of the scenes were just horrible. The book overall felt like the author didn't quite decide what kind of book to write.

Of the others I have read and loved both Eve out of her Ruins and Chronicle of the Murdered House. I don't know if I'll get to them all but I'm going to try.

I've read 4 off the list (Chronicle of the Murdered House, Among Strange Victims, Zama and Ladivine), and am half way through Oblivion, so I'm well on my way to the goal of at least half of the shortlist. I might hit seven titles this year. Kudos to anyone that reads the whole list.

Anyway, from what I've read, I like. It's a solid shortlist.

I really want to read Chronicle of the Murdered House. but, again, I need to overcome my fear of big books.

I really want to read Doomi Golo—The Hidden Notebooks but I'm having a hard time tracking down a reasonably priced copy. Has anyone read that one yet?

1. Chronicles of the Murdered House
2. Among Strange Victims
3. Zama
4. Ladivine

I'm conflicted about Among Strange Victims--it might be my #1. It shares a lot of thematic similiarity with Zama though, whereas Chronicles is unique.

Carl - Chronicle was a super fast read. I read it much more quickly than some 300 page books (I'm looking at you Oblivion).

Amanda - I'm only 20 pages into Doomi Golo (library copy). I think I'll end up enjoying it, and can keep you posted to let you know if it pans out that way.

Sara - That's two of us with Among Strange Victims and Chronicle of the Murdered House vying it out for top pick. I think I'm slowly settling into Among Strange Victims for my favorite though; I loved the language and voice.

Thanks Eric. That's given me a good reason to bump it up my TBR.

Carl-you found Chronicle a "super fast read." I had the opposite opinion. I've read 1,000 page books that seemed much shorter.

I read the longlist every year, and will this year also, but at the moment I'm concertrating on reading the shortlist before the winner is announced. I sure wish more time was allocated between the announcements so that people had a reasonable chance to read some of the books before the winner is announced.

So far I think Oblivion is by far the best of the shortlist. It has an unusual combination of searingly vivid short scenes and a dreamy and poetic overlay of descriptions that move the story along.

I also was surprised to like Ladivine. Intensely internal life stories aren't my favorite, and I wasn't a big fan of her 3 women, but in this case the intensity of the interior lives move together quite well, and when events occur, the reader is so deeply within the lives of the characters that it resonates hugely. On the other hand, I didn't like the dog shtick.

And why the heck is the zombie book on the longlist, let alone the shortlist? High school humor, stilted language...

1. Oblivion
2. Zama
3. Ladivine
4. Chronicle of the Murdered House
5. Doomi Golo
6. Eve Out of Her Ruins
7. Among Strange Victims
8. Umami
9. War and Turpentine
100. Wicked Weeds, A Zombie Novel

I'll update this entry as I read through the shortlist.

Lascosas, it was Eric who said it was a quick read.

I think I'll have to read it to see which side I fall on.

1. Oblivion
2. Among Strange Victims
3. Chronicle of the Murdered House
4. Ladivine
5. Zama

I think I may have enjoyed Among Strange Victims more, but Oblivion was the better book. I didn't always like it, but I always appreciated it.

And thus far, nothing I've read has been fantastic. Most of the books have been quite good, but I've yet to be floored by anything. And Lascosas - I'm very much in agreement about the "dog shtick" in Ladivine. It seemed not only silly, but totally out of step with everything else in the novel.

Looks like Oblivion should be the next one I look at, then?

Doomi-Golo
The introduction states that the book was written in Wolof and then “liberally” translated into French, with a “direct translation” from French to English. So...this is clearly a double translation. Normally I hate that, but in this case, given that Wolof is spoken by people previously colonized by the French, how many translators can there possibly be working in Wolof and English? Probably none.

The author previously wrote in French, but it is clear why that language felt wrong for what he wanted to accomplish in this book. He is directly speaking to his fellow Senegalese in a book brimming with myths, fables and stories about the local culture and society. It is a proud culture, an ancient culture, and one where whites contributed virtually nothing positive. So be proud of who you are and where you came from, ignore the distraction of western culture. The book educates readers as to their history and stories. Instructs as to what is real, and what is an affectation. And beware the later, because it will lead you astray and even rob you of your soul.

I felt oddly uncomfortable reading this book. It was not designed for me as a reader, in fact you could say that it is specifically designed to keep out people like me. White, western, clueless. It is no surprise that this was published by a university press with a long, ponderous introduction by a scholar. It is particularly crass of me to rank a book such as this, but so be it.

To my ears, Doomi Golo sounds more like a straight translation from the French. The "liberal translation" was done by the author, and the intro makes mention that critics thought it different enough from the original to presume it was another similar book, so if that was the version translated, why not call it what it is?

And regardless of whether the book is a double translation, a translation from Wolof, or a translation from French, I'm enjoying it thus far (roughly a third finished).

War and Turpentine

NYT best 10, Economist Best of the Year...these are lists that matter to me,but I don't get it. This seems derivative, pedantic and lacking in originality. A Sebald narrative (and the addition of photos added zilch) pasted to a second rate story of a WW1 soldier. There are SO many fiction and non fiction war stories that sear one. This is mundane.

Lascosas wrote: "War and Turpentine

NYT best 10, Economist Best of the Year...these are lists that matter to me,but I don't get it. This seems derivative, pedantic and lacking in originality. A Sebald narrative (a..."

I'm not quite as down on this as you are, but I can't say I was overly impressed. Some nice writing, but nothing more.

Tony-
What did you think of the use of photos in the book?

I have no objections to this newish fad, but in this case, I just didn't see that they added anything. But maybe others see it differently (and if I'm looking for someone who sees things different than I do, you are the perfect person to ask).

Umami
BTBA shortlist factoid. The narrators in two of the books live a couple of metro stops from each other in Mexico City.

For the first couple of chapters I thought I was reading a YA novel. The often simplistic narrations are somewhat improved by cutting up the chapters into five narrators, each 'speaking' during a particular year (2000 – 2004), with the years presented in opposite chronological order, and then further cut up by dividing the narratives into several parts. While it sounds confusing, it works, and reduces the simplistic YA elements of the individual narratives.

But...I don't see that the parts coalesce into much of a whole, and again, what whole there is is rather juvenile. As with much of this shortlist, I simply don't understand why this is on the shortlist.

Lascosas wrote: "Tony-
What did you think of the use of photos in the book?

I have no objections to this newish fad, but in this case, I just didn't see that they added anything. But maybe others see it differentl..."

No, and I think Sebald's photos usually do work. Here they just seemed a bit random.

Zama
Unusual. A combination of very straightforward 18th century narrative told in a slightly self-conscious, stilted manner combined with a lyrical and unexpected set of observations and occurrences. The result is to leave at least this reader constantly off balance, repeatedly hit by things I was unprepared to read, which made the impact all the greater. This is certainly the one book from the shortlist that will rumble around in my brain well after the others have largely retreated far into memory.

Okay. I've now finished reading the shortlist, and my ranking is up in Message #11. My strong vote for the winner is Oblivion.

I'll now, belatedly, finish the rest of the longlist and post any comments I may have to the longlist thread. And before you know it, late July is upon us and we have another Booker longlist.

Trevor,
Thank you so much for the endless hours I'm sure you spent judging the BTBA this year. We all appreciate the work, and without all of you, there would be no BTBA.

I second Lascosas. Trevor, thank you for all you and your fellow BTBA judges have done.

I finished my sixth and final (for me) longlisted book, Doomi Golo. Right now, it's hovering in my top 3 or 4 slots. While none of them knocked me out, they were all quite good. At this point I'd make a case that Oblivion, Among Strange Victims and Doomi Golo are all deserving of the title.

For what it's worth (nothing), I'll rerank what I've read later on in the week when Doomi Golo's had a little more time to sink in. It's definitely one that could use a wider audience, and I'm psyched to read more by Boris Diop.

My amended rankings -
1. Among Strange Victims
2. Doomi Golo
3. Oblivion
4. Chronicle of the Murdered House
5. Ladivine
6. Zama

Oblivion is my guess as to who picks up the award, which would be a solid decision. It's probably the best of what I've read, but not my favorite. Doomi Golo is my dark horse, but that "double translation" issue is really going to hold it back.

Chronicle of the Murdered House won, a first for Open Letter. I have read probably 75% of the books they have published, and their books fall into two very distinct categories. Novels by excellent authors that are not well known, and are probably not going to sell many copies, and pseudo-YA facile novels by young males who regale us with their insufferable existence. I loath the later category and cheer the former. This book falls squarely in the first category and I particularly commend the publisher for including an excellent introduction by Benjamin Moser that places the author in his time and community.

That's a pretty good way of summing up the parts of the Open Letter catalog I don't like, Lascosas.

Congratulations to my absolute favourite translator of all time for now being a BTBA winner as well as the most longlisted translator of all time and the first person to have 4 books on one year's list.

Congratulations to Trevor & the judges for making what seems to be from reviews here a great choice: albeit Oblivion seems to have been strongly received from those who read it.

And for picking a book that had to be overlooked for the MBI due to the author's unavailability for the promotion process.

And congratulations to the many here who flagged this book from an early stage - Sara, Lee, Amanda, Poingu, Lascosas, Eric, Deborah amongst others

Sara was the first I recall flagging it, and Lee in March confidently pronounced "Lucio Cardoso will win this particular tourno - I'm going to put money on it."

Congrats to the winners of the BTBA! Chronicle of the Murdered House was a really great book and (to me) a fun read. I had it ranked 4th on my list, but it was a real toss up between the top 4. Any one of them could have been my favorite depending on the day.

Thanks to everyone for the fun discussion! On the one hand, I was very involved in the BTBA this time around (of course). But on the other I felt a bit left out of the fun parts of this discussion. Thanks for carrying it on in spite of my relative silence and inability to say too much.

I'm thrilled Margaret Jull Costa has won as well! And, though no one here has said anything to make me feel I should clarify, I can offer some assurance that at no time did we make our decision on the reason that "it's her turn" or some such variation.

I assumed you made the decision to reward my favourite and most-read writer as recompense for overlooking K-lit entirely.

Not sure what you are going to do to get back into Michael O's good books though.

Ha! I think the good book was burned there :-)

Trevor wrote: "Thanks to everyone for the fun discussion! On the one hand, I was very involved in the BTBA this time around (of course). But on the other I felt a bit left out of the fun parts of this discussion...."

Thanks for the wonderful job you did Trevor. It must have been a terrific experience. Are you allowed to talk about it? (or have you already in another thread?) I'm always curious about how judges come to a final decision.