The Old Curiosity Club discussion

Hello Friends,

This installment begins with Chapter 47 and Pip is still waiting for a sign from Wemmick, but so far there has been none. Pip is now in need of money, but he refuses to use any from Magwitch, for whatever his reason may be. I find it odd that Pip doesn't like taking money from a convict who has turned his life around and saved every cent he made for Pip, but he has no problem with it when he thought it came from Miss Havisham. In case he hadn't noticed that lady is a tiny bit crazy. So now that he has creditors pressing him for payment he pawns some jewelry for money to satisfy some of his debts. I wonder how much jewelry men had in Dickens days.

He also becomes convinced that Estella's marriage has taken place and he avoids newspapers in fear of reading about Estella’s marriage. He also begs Herbert never to speak of her, although I don't think I noticed Herbert speaking of her before this. Yes, Pip leads an unhappy, anxious life.

"It was an unhappy life that I lived; and its one dominant anxiety, towering over all its other anxieties, like a high mountain above a range of mountains, never disappeared from my view. Still, no new cause for fear arose. Let me start from my bed as I would, with the terror fresh upon me that he was discovered; let me sit listening, as I would with dread, for Herbert’s returning step at night, lest it should be fleeter than ordinary, and winged with evil news,—for all that, and much more to like purpose, the round of things went on. Condemned to inaction and a state of constant restlessness and suspense, I rowed about in my boat, and waited, waited, waited, as I best could."

There were times when Pip was out boating that he could not return to his home when he went out because of the tide. He then leaves his boat at the Customs House, and the wharf people begin to know him. He is glad of that for he is becoming more and more common to the people along the water. One cold, rainy day led to Pip again meeting up with Mr. Wopsle.

"As it was a raw evening, and I was cold, I thought I would comfort myself with dinner at once; and as I had hours of dejection and solitude before me if I went home to the Temple, I thought I would afterwards go to the play. The theatre where Mr. Wopsle had achieved his questionable triumph was in that water-side neighborhood (it is nowhere now), and to that theatre I resolved to go. I was aware that Mr. Wopsle had not succeeded in reviving the Drama, but, on the contrary, had rather partaken of its decline. He had been ominously heard of, through the play-bills, as a faithful Black, in connection with a little girl of noble birth, and a monkey. And Herbert had seen him as a predatory Tartar of comic propensities, with a face like a red brick, and an outrageous hat all over bells."

Dickens goes on to describe the play to us, here is a little bit of it:

"A certain dark-complexioned Swab, however, who wouldn’t fill, or do anything else that was proposed to him, and whose heart was openly stated (by the boatswain) to be as black as his figure-head, proposed to two other Swabs to get all mankind into difficulties; which was so effectually done (the Swab family having considerable political influence) that it took half the evening to set things right, and then it was only brought about through an honest little grocer with a white hat, black gaiters, and red nose, getting into a clock, with a gridiron, and listening, and coming out, and knocking everybody down from behind with the gridiron whom he couldn’t confute with what he had overheard."

As for Mr. Wopsle:

"This led to Mr. Wopsle’s (who had never been heard of before) coming in with a star and garter on, as a plenipotentiary of great power direct from the Admiralty, to say that the Swabs were all to go to prison on the spot, and that he had brought the boatswain down the Union Jack, as a slight acknowledgment of his public services."

He sees Pip in the audience and seems to be looking only at Pip. After the play Wopsle tells Pip that there had been a man sitting behind him and seemed to be following him. Not only that but the man is one of the convicts Wopsle had seen all those years ago:

“I dare say you wonder at me, Mr. Pip; indeed, I see you do. But it is so very strange! You’ll hardly believe what I am going to tell you. I could hardly believe it myself, if you told me.”

“Indeed?” said I.

“No, indeed. Mr. Pip, you remember in old times a certain Christmas Day, when you were quite a child, and I dined at Gargery’s, and some soldiers came to the door to get a pair of handcuffs mended?”

“I remember it very well.”

“And you remember that there was a chase after two convicts, and that we joined in it, and that Gargery took you on his back, and that I took the lead, and you kept up with me as well as you could?”

“I remember it all very well.” Better than he thought,—except the last clause.

“And you remember that we came up with the two in a ditch, and that there was a scuffle between them, and that one of them had been severely handled and much mauled about the face by the other?”

“I see it all before me.”

“And that the soldiers lighted torches, and put the two in the centre, and that we went on to see the last of them, over the black marshes, with the torchlight shining on their faces,—I am particular about that,—with the torchlight shining on their faces, when there was an outer ring of dark night all about us?”

“Yes,” said I. “I remember all that.”

“Then, Mr. Pip, one of those two prisoners sat behind you tonight. I saw him over your shoulder.”

“Steady!” I thought. I asked him then, “Which of the two do you suppose you saw?”

“The one who had been mauled,” he answered readily, “and I’ll swear I saw him! The more I think of him, the more certain I am of him.”


Pip writes a letter about this to Wemmick. He and Herbert become extra cautious.

Pip feels terror at knowing Compeyson had been behind him. By the time he gets home Herbert has come in and Pip tells him what had happened. They can think of nothing to do now except telling Wemmick what they had that night found out. Instead of seeing Wemmick in person, which would probably take Compeyson there with him, Pip writes a letter to him. They become even more cautious then they had been.

In Chapter 48 Pip is on his way to find a place to dine when he meets Mr. Jaggers. Jaggers invites him to dine with him telling him Wemmick will also be there. During the dinner Pip keeps attempting to catch Wemmick's eye, but Wemmick only looks at Mr. Jaggers. Jaggers asks if he had sent the letter that had come for Pip from Miss Haversham, but since Pip arrived as he was about to send it he gave it to him now. It is a note of two lines asking Pip to come see her on a matter of business. Pip says he will go. He tells them he will go the next day since he has an "impending engagement" which makes him uncertain to his time so he thinks the earlier the better. And now even though Pip has avoided any mention of Estella's marriage Jaggers gives him the unwanted information:

“So, Pip! Our friend the Spider,” said Mr. Jaggers, “has played his cards. He has won the pool.”

It was as much as I could do to assent.

“Hah! He is a promising fellow—in his way—but he may not have it all his own way. The stronger will win in the end, but the stronger has to be found out first. If he should turn to, and beat her—”

“Surely,” I interrupted, with a burning face and heart, “you do not seriously think that he is scoundrel enough for that, Mr. Jaggers?”

“I didn’t say so, Pip. I am putting a case. If he should turn to and beat her, he may possibly get the strength on his side; if it should be a question of intellect, he certainly will not. It would be chance work to give an opinion how a fellow of that sort will turn out in such circumstances, because it’s a toss-up between two results.”

“May I ask what they are?”

“A fellow like our friend the Spider,” answered Mr. Jaggers, “either beats or cringes. He may cringe and growl, or cringe and not growl; but he either beats or cringes. Ask Wemmick his opinion.”

“Either beats or cringes,” said Wemmick, not at all addressing himself to me.

“So here’s to Mrs. Bentley Drummle,” said Mr. Jaggers, taking a decanter of choicer wine from his dumb-waiter, and filling for each of us and for himself, “and may the question of supremacy be settled to the lady’s satisfaction! "

And now comes the biggest surprise of the book so far fof me. We find that Estella's mother is really Jaggers maid Molly. I had no idea and I've read the book before. It just shows how awful my memory is.

"The action of her fingers was like the action of knitting. She stood looking at her master, not understanding whether she was free to go, or whether he had more to say to her and would call her back if she did go. Her look was very intent. Surely, I had seen exactly such eyes and such hands on a memorable occasion very lately!

He dismissed her, and she glided out of the room. But she remained before me as plainly as if she were still there. I looked at those hands, I looked at those eyes, I looked at that flowing hair; and I compared them with other hands, other eyes, other hair, that I knew of, and with what those might be after twenty years of a brutal husband and a stormy life. I looked again at those hands and eyes of the housekeeper, and thought of the inexplicable feeling that had come over me when I last walked—not alone—in the ruined garden, and through the deserted brewery. I thought how the same feeling had come back when I saw a face looking at me, and a hand waving to me from a stage-coach window; and how it had come back again and had flashed about me like lightning, when I had passed in a carriage—not alone—through a sudden glare of light in a dark street. I thought how one link of association had helped that identification in the theatre, and how such a link, wanting before, had been riveted for me now, when I had passed by a chance swift from Estella’s name to the fingers with their knitting action, and the attentive eyes. And I felt absolutely certain that this woman was Estella’s mother."


Walking home with Wemmick after the dinner, Pip questions his friend about Molly. Wemmick tells him Molly was acquitted of murder many years ago and Jaggers had been her lawyer. It was early in his career and a desperate case and people say this is the case that made him. She had murdered another woman due to jealousy. She also supposedly killed her young daughter to hurt her husband. But they weren’t trying her for her child’s murder, they were trying her for the other woman's murder and since Jaggers had been exceptional, they had to acquit. Pip feels certain that Estella is that lost daughter. As for how Molly became Jaggers servant:

“To sum up, sir,” said Wemmick, “Mr. Jaggers was altogether too many for the jury, and they gave in.”

“Has she been in his service ever since?”

“Yes; but not only that,” said Wemmick, “she went into his service immediately after her acquittal, tamed as she is now. She has since been taught one thing and another in the way of her duties, but she was tamed from the beginning.”

“Do you remember the sex of the child?”

“Said to have been a girl.”

“You have nothing more to say to me to-night?”

“Nothing. I got your letter and destroyed it. Nothing.”

We exchanged a cordial good-night, and I went home, with new matter for my thoughts, though with no relief from the old."

Kim wrote: "he pawns some jewelry for money to satisfy some of his debts. I wonder how much jewelry men had in Dickens days"

An interesting question! I found this:

http://www.langantiques.com/universit...

More for the footstep theme - very ominous:

let me sit listening, as I would with dread, for Herbert’s returning step at night, lest it should be fleeter than ordinary, and winged with evil news

Mary Lou wrote: "Kim wrote: "he pawns some jewelry for money to satisfy some of his debts. I wonder how much jewelry men had in Dickens days"

An interesting question! I found this:

http://www.langantiques.com/uni..."

What a great article. Thanks Mary Lou.

Mary Lou wrote: "More for the footstep theme - very ominous:

let me sit listening, as I would with dread, for Herbert’s returning step at night, lest it should be fleeter than ordinary, and winged with evil news"

Yes, indeed. I really enjoy watching how effectively Dickens evolves many of his images, symbols and previous comments. Interesting to speculate on whether he had a list of ideas he kept in his writing desk or just remembered them in his head.

Kim,

When I read about Molly being Estella's mother, I, too, was surprised although this is probably the fifth time I read the novel. Likewise did I have no remembrance of that wonderful scene of Pip and Drummles stand next to each other, contesting each other's space in front of the fireplace. Reading it now, however, reminded me of a similar scene in Martin Chuzzlewit, where the eponymous hero is shown in his egoism in one of the earlier chapters when he took a seat right in front of the inn fire, thus barring the warmth from another character (I don't remember who it was). There was also a similar fireplace fight in Little Dorrit, when Tip got told off by Gowan or Blandois for standing right in front of the fireplace. Monopolizing the warmth of the fire must have been a major faux-pas in those days, and I can also understand why. In Dickens, it seems to be the preserve of thoughtless and arrogant young men.

I also had another thought about Pip's pawning off his jewelery to get some ready money, and it is a not very favourable one to Pip. Like Kim, I cannot see why taking money from Magwitch, a man who has worked hard and paid his moral debts to society, should be so much worse than taking money from the old bat. In fact, it also occurred to me that the jewelery Pip pawned was probably jewelery he bought when he had great expectations and thought himself a swell gentleman. In other words, it was very probably with Magwitch's money that he bought his trinkets. So, if he turns these jewels into money in order not to be dependent on Magwitch as a source of cash, he doing what in Germany we would call "lying into his own pocket", i.e. lying to himself in order to save his face. This makes Pip not only a thankless wastrel but also a puny hypocrite.

Is it just me, or did you also have the impression that Jaggers is a sadist? Not only does he keep Molly in his household to keep her under his thumb, preening himself on having "tamed" her and enjoying the power he has over the woman, but he also seems to take some devilish relish in rubbing it in with Pip that Estella has married Drummles and, what's more, that she is very likely to be led a dog's life by her unfeeling and brutish husband. He seems to be dwelling on this point with the sole intention of tormenting Pip.

I am still at a loss as to what kind of person Jaggers actually is.

Tristram wrote: "it was very probably with Magwitch's money that he bought his trinkets. "

Nice catch, Tristram! It's so obvious, and yet I hadn't thought that deeply about it. Perhaps Pip didn't, either. Maybe, like me, he's just a wee bit scatter-brained.

I wonder about the circumstances of Molly's employment. Was she unable to pay Jagger's fee, and paying with service? Or was it just her opportunity to keep tabs on Estella? Whatever the circumstances, it does seem as if Jaggers holds something over her. I wonder what the laws at the time were re: double jeopardy. More than likely, her employment was more of a literary tool than anything truly significant to the plot -- one of Dickens' convenient coincidences.

Quite the chapter. Pip is disquieted by the fact that Compeyson could have been behind him " like a ghost." It seems like there are many ghosts presenting themselves to Pip. Magwitch has materialized again, Compeyson seems to be lurking about, Pip feels certain he has seen Orlick in the company of Drummle, and, most vividly, the image of Estella is conjured up when Pip looks at Jaggers's maid Molly. As Molly "glided" out of the room Pip says she "remained before me, as plainly as if she were still there. I looked at those hands, I looked at those eyes, I looked at that flowing hair. ... I thought how the same feeling had come back when I saw a face looking at me, and a hand waving to me, from a stage-coach window." Estella is Molly's child. There are so many ghosts to be unravelled.

This preponderance of ghostly images, reflective sightings and imaginings combine and swirl within Pip's mind. While the connections among the various images may be faint, they are present. Slowly, Pip is beginning to learn about the past. We can only hope that as Pip learns about the past of Estella, Molly and others he will learn more about himself as well.

If we look at the Buss painting that is our banner for the Old Curiosities we can see a visual representation of this idea. Dickens is in his writer's chair and all around him swirl his stories much like in Pip's mind he is hearing the stories of Estella, Magwitch and others. Some of these stories are being completed, filled in, just as some of the images that Dickens dreams about are complete. Other images remain sketched in, but incomplete in Dickens's mind. As so it is with Pip. What swirls in his mind, what is complete, what must he still need to learn?

Tristram wrote: In fact, it also occurred to me that the jewelery Pip pawned was probably jewelery he bought when he had great expectations and thought himself a swell gentleman. In other words, it was very probably with Magwitch's money that he bought his trinkets. ."

Yes, I had the same realization. Pip the hypocrite.

Tristram wrote: "Is it just me, or did you also have the impression that Jaggers is a sadist?"

I didn't think so. Perhaps he employs Molly because if she went to work for anybody else he would have had an obligation, if asked for a reference, to admit that she did commit murder, and so this may be the only honest employment, with her record, that she can get. Also, it is a link for her to the only person who knows where her daughter is, and maybe she hopes that when her daughter is grown Jaggers will tell her.

As to Pip and Drummle, perhaps he is trying "tough love" to make Pip face the reality that he needs to put Estella behind him.

Certainly Jaggers is a manipulator, but I don't see him as vindictive or sadistic. Though he does respect the value of his services. I wish I had learned to be that insistent on getting paid in advance of providing my services; I would have a lot more money in the bank today!

There is an easy way of demanding people to pay their fees before, and that is by saying that you are so full of the milk of human kindness that you cannot stand the thought of their being under a thrall of obligation towards you, and that, therefore, you had rather it be the other way around, and that's why it's money down first.

As to Jaggers, I see your point in what you said about Jaggers's readiness to give Molly an employment in his household. Still, though, do you remember how he showed off her wrists to his guests, thus making her quite a spectacle and never seeming to care that she might not want to be shown around that way? And is his way of painting a dark and brutal future for Estella the best way to make Pip forget her?

Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Is it just me, or did you also have the impression that Jaggers is a sadist?"

I didn't think so. Perhaps he employs Molly because if she went to work for anybody else he would hav..."

They are all awful.

Let me sit listening as I would, with dread

Chapter 47

John McLenan

1861

Dickens's Great Expectations,

Harper's Weekly

Text Illustrated:

"As the time wore on, an impression settled heavily upon me that Estella was married. Fearful of having it confirmed, though it was all but a conviction, I avoided the newspapers, and begged Herbert (to whom I had confided the circumstances of our last interview) never to speak of her to me. Why I hoarded up this last wretched little rag of the robe of hope that was rent and given to the winds, how do I know? Why did you who read this, commit that not dissimilar inconsistency of your own last year, last month, last week?

It was an unhappy life that I lived; and its one dominant anxiety, towering over all its other anxieties, like a high mountain above a range of mountains, never disappeared from my view. Still, no new cause for fear arose. Let me start from my bed as I would, with the terror fresh upon me that he was discovered; let me sit listening, as I would with dread, for Herbert’s returning step at night, lest it should be fleeter than ordinary, and winged with evil news,—for all that, and much more to like purpose, the round of things went on. Condemned to inaction and a state of constant restlessness and suspense, I rowed about in my boat, and waited, waited, waited, as I best could."

"I had had to feel my way back among the shipping"

F. A. Fraser

1877

An illustration for the Household Edition of Dickens's Great Expectations

Text Illustrated:

"It was an unhappy life that I lived; and its one dominant anxiety, towering over all its other anxieties, like a high mountain above a range of mountains, never disappeared from my view. Still, no new cause for fear arose. Let me start from my bed as I would, with the terror fresh upon me that he was discovered; let me sit listening, as I would with dread, for Herbert’s returning step at night, lest it should be fleeter than ordinary, and winged with evil news,—for all that, and much more to like purpose, the round of things went on. Condemned to inaction and a state of constant restlessness and suspense, I rowed about in my boat, and waited, waited, waited, as I best could.

There were states of the tide when, having been down the river, I could not get back through the eddy-chafed arches and starlings of old London Bridge; then, I left my boat at a wharf near the Custom House, to be brought up afterwards to the Temple stairs. I was not averse to doing this, as it served to make me and my boat a commoner incident among the water-side people there. From this slight occasion sprang two meetings that I have now to tell of.

One afternoon, late in the month of February, I came ashore at the wharf at dusk. I had pulled down as far as Greenwich with the ebb tide, and had turned with the tide. It had been a fine bright day, but had become foggy as the sun dropped, and I had had to feel my way back among the shipping, pretty carefully. Both in going and returning, I had seen the signal in his window, All well."

Since once again few seemed interested in illustrating these chapters, I again go back to the 1946 movie and give us Jaggers and Mr. Wopsle since they are both in this installment.

The first is our actor Mr. Wopsle


And now Mr. Jaggers, who doesn't look even close to this in my mind.

No. Jaggers is not even close to what I would imagine him to look like.

On the other hand, I really like the dark, brooding nature of both the Fraser and the McLenan illustrations. Very moody indeed.

I like the darkness of the Fraser illustrations.

And no, that is NOT Jaggers.

I would accept the last actor as an impersonation of Wemmick, but Jaggers ... NEVER!

I like the first illustration, though - especially because there seems to be a dark, uncanny presence materializing behind Pip, whose eyes really seem to try and pierce the darkness. That's done in a very efficient way.

So sorry that I have frequently disappeared from view. I can only plead illness, though Kim, and maybe others, managed to soldier on despite extreme pain.

I like the meaning of the German phrase, Tristram, 'lying into his own pockets' (or thereabouts!). It is quite a nuanced idea and not one for which I would readily expect there to be a phrase. Ah, the wealth of the German language!

I can readily buy into your reading of Jaggers, Tristram, although I want to accept Everyman's interpretation of events. Perhaps this might be described by that German phrase. I believed Jaggers to be the authentic article from early on. I need to have at least one immovable feast among the authority figures, but then all of the fragments that I may pull together in Jaggers 's. defence won't change the reality. As in Gilbert and Sullivan's Operetta 'The Mikado': 'The flowers that bloom in the spring, Tra la, have nothing to do with the case.'

Hilary wrote: "So sorry that I have frequently disappeared from view. I can only plead illness...."

Sorry to hear you haven't been well, Hilary. Hope the worst is behind you and you're on the mend.

Hilary wrote: "So sorry that I have frequently disappeared from view. I can only plead illness, though Kim, and maybe others, managed to soldier on despite extreme pain.

I like the meaning of the German phrase, ..."

You were missed Hilary. Like Mary Lou I hope you are feeling much better and ready to head on down to the Three Jolly Bargemen. Much has happened in GE so we should order a few pints and get started.

Hilary wrote: "So sorry that I have frequently disappeared from view. I can only plead illness, though Kim, and maybe others, managed to soldier on despite extreme pain.

I like the meaning of the German phrase, ..."

I'm glad you're here Hilary, pain and all. You got me thinking of my extreme pain, and I got wondering how much more of a wonderful person I would be without the pain. :-) (I hope my other moderators read this).

I know one member of the Curiosities who knows you are both wonderful people. Me. :-))

Oh, thank you so much, Mary Lou, Peter and Kim. I am greatly touched by your kindness! Mary Lou, unfortunately, as it's a chronic condition my potential answers are limited. Very invasive surgery is being promoted by the surgeons whereas the pain clinic which is led by an anaesthetist is not excited about the surgery idea. It's all a bit of a quandary, though I did get my first series of steroid injections into the joints in the spine. For a few weeks I felt that there was some relief - better than flinging
myself all over the bed in a futile effort to escape the pain! La di da! That was my 'end-it' day. But I lived on and had the opportunity to moan and groan to anyone who would listen or to those who would not. Many are much worse than I ...

Hilary wrote: "as it's a chronic condition my potential answers are limited"

I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope the Curiosities can at least provide you with a diversion that takes your mind off your pain to some extent.

Hilary wrote: "That was my 'end-it' day. "

Thankfully it passed, and I hope forever -- we can't afford to lose you here.

It's sad that there's so much pain in this group, but good that we have each other and our books to keep friendship and comradeship intact.

Hilary wrote: "Oh, thank you so much, Mary Lou, Peter and Kim. I am greatly touched by your kindness! Mary Lou, unfortunately, as it's a chronic condition my potential answers are limited. Very invasive surgery i..."

Do you have prescription pain medication? I'm wondering because there is no over the counter medication that can even touch my headaches. I hope you have something other than those types of medicine to help you. Of course, even prescription meds don't always work. Your pain is so different than mine I'm not sure how to help you. I get pain management injections now, they are into my spine close to my neck, that seems to help. Which reminds me, it's time to call my pain management doctor. :-)

Oh, and keep in mind, as I told someone who asked me wouldn't I like to be free from pain, I replied that if I was free of pain I'd be dead. :-)

Knowing it's only 237 days until Christmas helps too. :-)

Kim wrote: "Hilary wrote: "So sorry that I have frequently disappeared from view. I can only plead illness, though Kim, and maybe others, managed to soldier on despite extreme pain.

I like the meaning of the ..."

Hilary,
it's nice to hear from you, and I hope you are getting better. Kim's words have set me wondering what it would take to make me a wonderful person. Can't think of anything that would do the trick :-)

Tristram wrote: "Kim's words have set me wondering what it would take to make me a wonderful person. Can't think of anything that would do the trick :-) ."

Obeying your wife in all things would seem to do the trick pretty well.

Thank you so much for your kind words, Everyman. Thank you everyone! These words really are a sort of oil of healing for the soul. Yes, Mary Lou, this group certainly causes a lovely diversion. I had forgotten how much!

Kim, unfortunately, I'm on the upper limits of prescription drugs and quite frankly they seem to be ineffective. I say this since I had a dental abscess recently and the pain was agonising despite drugs! OTC drugs are like Smarties to me. I can't remember if you have Smarties in the US but they are small colourful candies.

I must try to hang in here, as the support of friends cannot be overestimated!

Smarties? I'm not sure about the rest of America, but I've never heard of them.

We have Smarties. (Kim - check your CVS or Walmart around Halloween!) Little discs of sugar in pretty pastel colors, wrapped in a stack. But, yeah... no good for pain relief. :-(

Slowly catching up with the group, I read through this section at lunch today. I was also surprised to learn that Estella's mother is most likely Mr. Jaggers' maid, but then again, this is my first time reading GE. :)

Tristram, great comment about Pip lying to himself by selling the jewelry to get money, when likely he had initially bought the jewelry with Magwitch's money. It baffled me since I assume he did not come from the Gregary's with his own set of jewels.

I am also having a hard time pinning down Jaggers' character, although I wouldn't go so far as to say that he is sadistic. As to the actor who played Jaggers, I agree with everyone here. That is not in any way how I pictured Jaggers. I picture him as tall and built (not chubby), dark and gruff. I don't see that actor even has a Wemmick. I see Wemmick as a thin, slight man.

Speaking of Wemmick and his eating habits, every time Dickens refers to his "post office", I can't help but be reminded of the constant use of the "mowing the lawn" (or something similar) in George Silverman's Explanation.

Hilary wrote: "So sorry that I have frequently disappeared from view. I can only plead illness, though Kim, and maybe others, managed to soldier on despite extreme pain."

Hilary, it's good to hear from you, although I am sorry your absence has been because of ongoing pain. I hope that something can be done to lessen the pain for you soon, although it sounds like you've been through the ringer trying to figure it all out with your doctors. :( The least I can offer you is a hug from the other side of the globe.

Oh, I've had this Smarties discussion in another group. I didn't realize that there were different types of Smarties, though, the UK ones being similar to large M&Ms. Anyway, I absolutely love U.S. Smarties, although I know they are just pure sugar and not at all good for me. However, they are the candies I pick out from my kids' Halloween haul each year, and now they know how much Mom likes Smarties, so they voluntarily give them to me. :)

UK Smarties


U.S. Smarties

Oh! those U.S. Smarties I recognize! They've been around my entire life, I just never knew they were called Smarties before. The UK ones still don't look familiar to me.

Mary Lou wrote: "We have Smarties. (Kim - check your CVS or Walmart around Halloween!) Little discs of sugar in pretty pastel colors, wrapped in a stack. But, yeah... no good for pain relief. :-("

I know what you mean, but we call them something else here, can't remember what.

Ah, found them. I think this is what you mean?
http://www.necco.com/candy/wafers.aspx

All this talk of candy ... I've had my virtual sugar fix for the day. :-))

Everyman wrote: "I think this is what you mean?"

Nope - Neccos are bigger and a bit chalkier. The pictures Linda posted are the ones I was referring to. Love the chocolate Neccos! Obviously I know way too much about candy, but I've never seen the UK Smarties before.

Thank you so much, Linda, for your concern. It means so much to me - so much more than you might imagine.! Oh and I love hugs. We are big huggers in our family, so I'll happily take all the virtual hugs I can get!! Maybe one day they will be real life hugs! I can but dream!

Thank you, Linda, for posting 'Smarties' US and UK. As with many of Kim's illustrations the pictures have not appeared. I shall look at the tablet later. Everyman, I was able to work the link. Well I pressed it :p. Yes, those look quite like Smarties. They have chocolate in the
Inside with a candy coating. Interesting name : Wafers. I shall look for them when I'm there next. They may be discontinued by that time!!

Long live the Empire ... well, for candy anyway. The UK Smarties are the Canadian version as well. Lots of colours, all with chocolate inside. You can buy them all year but Halloween would not be Halloween without multitudinous boxes of Smarties.

Hilary. I have no idea how to send a keyed hug so here is my best attempt.


( ). Sorry. I missed out out on the creativity gene.

Everyman wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Kim's words have set me wondering what it would take to make me a wonderful person. Can't think of anything that would do the trick :-) ."

Obeying your wife in all things would se..."

I am sure I won't let her read this.

We only by Neccos when we need to tile our gingerbread houses. They are not any good for eating. :)

I have a friend who lives in Scotland, she always brings supplies of chocolate when she visits, so I've become nicely acquainted with UK candy. My favorite so far is the Galaxy Ripple bar.

Here's another hug for you, Hilary. The other hug was for yesterday and it is a new day. :)

Linda wrote: "I am also having a hard time pinning down Jaggers' character, although I wouldn't go so far as to say that he is sadistic."

Neither would I care to stick by this statement in the light of Jaggers's behaviour and actions as given in our recent chapters. He is just as much of an understater as Wemmick is ;-)

Linda wrote: "Oh, I've had this Smarties discussion in another group. I didn't realize that there were different types of Smarties, though, the UK ones being similar to large M&Ms. Anyway, I absolutely love U.S...."

I know the Smarties from the first picture, but I must say that I prefer M&Ms, esp. those with peanuts in them. They are soooo hard to resist.