Historical Fictionistas discussion

AbeBooks newsletter this month is all about alternative histories, yay!!

"...This particular selection of fiction mostly comes from the ‘What if’ category where history has diverged from its path and gone in another direction...The most popular theme for alternative histories by far is World War II – it would have been possible to populate the entire list with books where the Nazis won or the conflict’s outcome is drastically different. However, there are authors who have avoided the global events of the 19th and 20th centuries and preferred to look at other ‘What Ifs’..."

Read the rest and see the list here.

How many of these have you read?

Oooooh I love alternate history! Adding a ton of these to my TBR. The only one previously on there that's mentioned on the list is Fatherland.

A few more on my TBR: Dominion, 11/22/63

Some of my favorite alt-histories include:

- Series set in an alternate universe where the Library of Alexandria didn't burn down. Has a 1984/Big Brother vibe.

- The Parasolverse introduces steampunk elements to England in the mid-to-late 1800s.

- Duology whose MC was the subject of Nazi experimentation, centering around an annual motorcycle race to commemorate the Axis powers winning WWII.

- The Napoleonic Wars, but with dragons!

I love the Jasper Fforde Thursday Next series (e.g., The Eyre Affair), and I liked the book of Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell but really adored the TV series based on it.

Abigail wrote: "I love the Jasper Fforde Thursday Next series (e.g., The Eyre Affair), and I liked the book of Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell but really adored the TV series based on it."

I've only read the first Thursday Next book so far, but I loved it! Jonathan Strange is on my shelf waiting patiently to be picked up.

Ashley *Hufflepuff Kitten* wrote: "The Napoleonic Wars, but with dragons!"

One of our interns introduced me to these a couple of years ago and they're great fun.

Ashley *Hufflepuff Kitten* wrote: "Oooooh I love alternate history! Adding a ton of these to my TBR. The only one previously on there that's mentioned on the list is Fatherland."

I had quite a few on either my Read or TBR list, but have added a bunch. Romanitas in particular looks intriguing, as does the one about the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I love the Parasol series by Gail Carriger, but hadn't ever thought of it as alternative history. Of course it is!

Two graphic novels that are alternative history are Watchmen and V for Vendetta. Now that I'm thinking about it, so are The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Vol. 1, The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Century 1910 and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier!

Hm. I'm not sure V for Vendetta is alternate history -- it's set in the future, so there's nothing to be alternative to. And The League of Extraordinary Gentleman doesn't really send history in an alternate direction, does it? It just brings various historical figures together to do interesting things.

To me, AH means choosing a specific point in history and asking "What if this happened differently?" I think that's why so many of them center on WWII and the US Civil War: because those are really obvious turning points, where a different outcome would have had profound effects on the world as we know it.

Michele wrote: "AbeBooks newsletter this month is all about alternative histories, yay!!

"...This particular selection of fiction mostly comes from the ‘What if’ category where history has diverged from its path ..."

I had never even heard of some of these! Adding a bunch to my to-read list.

These aren't fiction, but I particularly enjoyed The Collected What If? Eminent Historians Imagine What Might Have Been. Each essay focuses on a different event with a historian of the period analyzing what might have gone differently if the event changed,.

There's also one about American history which I haven't read What Ifs? of American History: Eminent Historians Imagine What Might Have Been

Michele wrote: "Hm. I'm not sure V for Vendetta is alternate history -- it's set in the future, so there's nothing to be alternative to. And The League of Extraordinary Gentleman doesn't really send history in an ..."

But it happens because the Labor party wins in England in the 80's when in reality they did not. That's the catalyst for the whole thing.

Ashley *Hufflepuff Kitten* wrote: "Oooooh I love alternate history! Adding a ton of these to my TBR. The only one previously on there that's mentioned on the list is Fatherland.

A few more on my TBR: Dominion, [book..."

Loved the His Majesty's Dragon series..... perfect blend of fantasy and science. So much fun

Some good books on the list, but I didn't see John Hersey's White Lotus or any of Alison Morton's Roma Nova series .

I'm a huge fan of alternate history, but I'd never even heard of White Lotus. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, Eileen.

Shomeret wrote: "I'm a huge fan of alternate history, but I'd never even heard of White Lotus. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, Eileen."

It was the first alternate history I ever read. It assumes the Chinese overran the US.

There's also The Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson. Basic idea is that Europe was so devastated by the Black Death that it opened the door to the Chinese and the Muslim empires to expand—told through the adventures of three souls who travel through reincarnation in ever-changing combinations. I loved it.

Also, The Eyre Affair, as mentioned, is fun (Crimean War still going on after 150 years or so). But the second one, Lost in a Good Book, is way better: absolutely hilarious.

It’s true, C. P.: Lost in a Good Book is by far my favorite in the series, too!

Oooh, oooh! Fatherland will always be top of the alt-hist-fic pile for me. A "Hitler won" universe set in the 60s; shiver-inducing.

As far as 'what ifs' go, does this include the fantasy/horror genre? Because if so then I'm gonna shout out to my favorite book, Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter.
I'm sure everyone's heard of it by now but I reread it recently and it's still, at least to me, just as clever and compelling as it was the first time.

Kate wrote: "Oooh, oooh! Fatherland will always be top of the alt-hist-fic pile for me. A "Hitler won" universe set in the 60s; shiver-inducing."

The Man in the High Castle!!

For an alternate history that goes all the way back to prehistory, there is West of Eden in which reptiles evolve to become the dominant species on planet earth. Homo sapiens comes along too late, and instead of being top of the food chain are slaves (valued and intelligent, but still slaves) to the lizard people. Intriguing and thought provoking.

I have a question for the group about alternate history. I know what it is and what it implies, but my question is this: can it be considered as part of the historical fiction genre, or is it considered apart from it?

Michel wrote: "I have a question for the group about alternate history. I know what it is and what it implies, but my question is this: can it be considered as part of the historical fiction genre, or is it consi..."

I consider alternate history either science fiction or fantasy depending on the premise. Alternate history takes place in another timeline which means it's not our history. If it's not our history, then it's not historical fiction which is based in history in our timeline.

I would tend to question your statement about alternate history taking place in another timeline and not being our history. If you write historical fiction, then you by definition write about something that did not happen (being fiction). How can you expect those differences not to affect the course of history, unless your definition of historical fiction is limited to such things as fictional romantic flings between minor historical players? If historical fiction is to be limited to such minor plotlines, then I find it disappointing.

Historical fiction that deals with recorded events and real historical personages will have the same identical events happening. It will just fill in the events with descriptions, imagined dialogue or the thoughts of the historical characters. If it changes recorded history, it's not historical fiction. It's alternate history and therefore either science fiction or fantasy.

I think Shomeret has summed it up well.

If one wanted to be pithy, one could say that the difference between historical fiction and alternate history is that the former is history costumed as fiction, while the latter is fiction costumed as history.

The Damned Balkans - a refugee road trip:
The very recent history of the Balkans, told not by a journalist or a politician with a bird's-eye view, and relying not so much on a list of the historical events that constituted the war and its aftermath. Rather, this is the inside story, a story of real men, women and children in adversity, how they survived the failure by national and international institutions to protect society. A very human story, of the triumph of the human spirit.

John wrote: "The Damned Balkans - a refugee road trip:
The very recent history of the Balkans, told not by a journalist or a politician with a bird's-eye view, and relying not so much on a list ..."

Is it an alternate history?

Yes. I think you'll find you've never read anything like it.

I read Harry Turtledove's How Few Remain back in February. My husband bought it for me for Christmas. I'm a huge Civil War history fan, and even though I obviously know how the war went, there were times when I was reading Turtledove's alternate that I felt like his version seemed like it could have been pretty accurate too. It was definitely a lengthy book that took me a while to get through, but I really had a good time reading it.

Michel wrote: "I have a question for the group about alternate history. I know what it is and what it implies, but my question is this: can it be considered as part of the historical fiction genre, or is it consi..."

Little late to this party, but I really think the line in the article that started this discussion - "This particular selection of fiction mostly comes from the ‘What if’ category where history has diverged from its path and gone in another direction" - succinctly captures alternative history. What if Elizabeth I had married? What if Wallis Simpson stayed in the US? What if the South won the American Civil War?

Science fiction is fiction based on technology and/or space exploration. Fantasy is fiction in which a whole world/environment is created by the author, usually populated by both humans and creatures (Orcs, trolls, fairies, etc.). If I tried to give a customer wanting an alternative historical fiction a David Brin book or one by Terry Brooks, both highly regarded examples of these two genres, there would be murder and mayhem in the library.

Alternative historical fiction is just that. Alternative history. History that has been fictionalize in an alternative manner.

Off soap box :)

Thank you for your statement, Cheryl A. I thought that Shomeret's definition of historical fiction was way too restrictive and greatly limited how much imagination could be used by authors.

Has anyone mentioned Harry Turtledove? He tends to be known as a science fiction author, but his alternate histories are well worth a read. My current favourite is Ruled Britannica, when the Spanish Armada won...

My favorite alternative history I have ever read was The Burning Mountain: A Novel of the Invasion of Japan. It is rooted in battle plans from the US and Japan and provides a fictional account of what could have happened if the bomb was never dropped.

I’ve read none of these books, sorry.
The question: What would have happened if History had taken another path? is a fun question, which can make one imagine more horrible or happier ends, according to one's taste. But that's still fiction, even though I like fiction.
This makes me think that men, especially those who lead us, should learn the errors of true History, it would be very useful to them and beneficial to us! :)

I haven't read any of those books, but For Want of a Nail and The Man in the High Castle both sound interesting.
I got Steel Victory for Christmas, and it was described as Alternative History/fantasy. It was pretty good.

Gabrielle wrote: "I’ve read none of these books, sorry.
The question: What would have happened if History had taken another path? is a fun question, which can make one imagine more horrible or happier ends, accordin..."

Love this idea! Which is the premise of my book "Blood and Ink" - what if Shakespeare did not write the plays attributed to him, what if they belonged to someone else? I love this idea of taking history and transforming the endings!!

Abigail wrote: "I love the Jasper Fforde Thursday Next series (e.g., The Eyre Affair), and I liked the book of Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell but really adored the TV series based on it."
I've read some of Jasper Fforde's books, and they're pretty good.

Yes, the Jasper Fforde books are a lot of fun. (Couldn't get into "nursery crime," though.)

One series I haven't seen mentioned is Jo Walton's "Small Change," which is set in a Britain which made "peace with honor" with Hitler in 1941. The first is Farthing.

I really like Francine Mathews' books for Alt Fiction. She takes a person we all know and 'what ifs' a moment in their life.

Jack 1939 is about a period of time in JFK's life where we do not really know what he is doing. She has a hypothesis that he was a spy for the war. There is no proof that he was but it is a good ride.

Too Bad to Die is a period of Ian Flemings' life where he gets his ideas for Bond from a series of events in his own life. We know that there is no way that part of it is true but 'what if ' it was.

Kate wrote: "Oooh, oooh! Fatherland will always be top of the alt-hist-fic pile for me. A "Hitler won" universe set in the 60s; shiver-inducing."

Outstanding novel. The Gestapo of the 60s were utterly terrifying.