The History Book Club discussion

This is the thread for the discussion of the May Book of the Month - Custer's Trials: A Life on the Frontier of a New America.

by T.J. Stiles (no photo)

Winner of the 2016 Pulitzer Prize for History

From the winner of two Pulitzer Prizes and a National Book Award, a brilliant biography of Gen. George Armstrong Custer that radically changes our view of the man and his turbulent times.

In this magisterial biography, T. J. Stiles paints a portrait of Custer both deeply personal and sweeping in scope, proving how much of Custer’s legacy has been ignored. He demolishes Custer’s historical caricature, revealing a volatile, contradictory, intense person—capable yet insecure, intelligent yet bigoted, passionate yet self-destructive, a romantic individualist at odds with the institution of the military (he was court-martialed twice in six years).

The key to understanding Custer, Stiles writes, is keeping in mind that he lived on a frontier in time. In the Civil War, the West, and many areas overlooked in previous biographies, Custer helped to create modern America, but he could never adapt to it. He freed countless slaves yet rejected new civil rights laws. He proved his heroism but missed the dark reality of war for so many others. A talented combat leader, he struggled as a manager in the West.

He tried to make a fortune on Wall Street yet never connected with the new corporate economy. Native Americans fascinated him, but he could not see them as fully human. A popular writer, he remained apart from Ambrose Bierce, Mark Twain, and other rising intellectuals. During Custer’s lifetime, Americans saw their world remade. His admirers saw him as the embodiment of the nation’s gallant youth, of all that they were losing; his detractors despised him for resisting a more complex and promising future. Intimate, dramatic, and provocative, this biography captures the larger story of the changing nation in Custer’s tumultuous marriage to his highly educated wife, Libbie; their complicated relationship with Eliza Brown, the forceful black woman who ran their household; as well as his battles and expeditions. It casts surprising new light on a near-mythic American figure, a man both widely known and little understood.

About T. J. Stiles:


Photo credit: Michael Lionstar

T. J. Stiles is the author of The First Tycoon: The Epic Life of Cornelius Vanderbilt, winner of the 2009 National Book Award in Nonfiction and the 2010 Pulitzer Prize in Biography, and Jesse James: Last Rebel of the Civil War, which won the Ambassador Book Award and the Peter Seaborg Award for Civil War Scholarship. A member of the Society of American Historians, he wrote his latest book, Custer's Trials: A Life on the Frontier of a New America, with the assistance of a Guggenheim fellowship. He lives in Berkeley, California, with his wife and two children.

Note: A special spoiler GLOSSARY thread has been set up for all articles, web pages, videos, interviews which relate to this book that are not already featured videos. This way we can keep this non spoiler discussion thread relatively free of sundry postings related to the book so we can focus on the discussion of this book. There is so much here that we need the spoiler thread to not impact the topic questions and conversation. However, if you do not like spoilers - then do not visit the glossary spoiler thread until after you finish the book - it is up to you.

Here is the link:
https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

WINNER 2016 - Pulitzer Prize for History
FINALIST 2016 - National Book Critics Circle Awards
FINALIST 2016 - California Book Award
FINALIST 2016 - Mark Lynton History Prize
LONGLIST 2016 - Plutarch Award
WINNER 2016 - Western Writers of America Golden Spur Award
WINNER 2016 - William H. Seward Award for Excellence in Civil War Biography
FINALIST 2015 - Guggenheim-Lehman Prize in Military History

BookPage Best Books of 2015
St. Louis Post-Dispatch Best of 2015

Praise:

“If anyone could make a reader forget Custer’s last stand, at least for a few hundred pages at a time, it would be T.J. Stiles… Stiles is a serious and accomplished biographer, but he is more than that. He is a skilled writer, with the rare ability to take years of far-ranging research and boil it down until he has a story that is illuminating and, at its best, captivating.” —The New York Times Book Review

“Epic, ambitious… [Stiles] scrupulously avoids caricature… Stiles’s accomplishment is to show that, within the context of Custer’s life, the Battle of Little Bighorn really was an epilogue.” —The Wall Street Journal

“[This] sympathetic biography attempts to demythologize and reassess a complicated figure… Stiles captures his subject with verve.” —The New Yorker

“In this deft portrait, Stiles restores Custer as a three-dimensional figure… [Stiles’s] prodigious knowledge of 19th-century institutions is on display throughout Custer’s Trials. He is able to situate Custer in the shifting culture of the Civil War and its aftermath in a way no other biography has achieved… Stiles’s Custer is life-size.” —The Washington Post

“This energetic biography puts emphasis on the years in between Custer’s Civil War heroics and his infamous Last Stand. Stiles is neither sympathetic nor unsympathetic in his treatment of Custer’s profound need for attention.” —The St. Louis Post-Dispatch

“Riveting… [Stiles] has given us a different way to look at the flesh-and-blood man and his times.” —Minneapolis Star-Tribune

"Custer's Trials is exemplary in every way, replete with instances of detailed scholarship and compelling analysis, dense with psychological insight, and written in a tight, adroit style." —The Wichita Eagle

"Custer was the product of an America which changed more dramatically during his brief life than at any time in its history, except for the present sorry epoch, and Stiles, who can write, and also research, recounts how those times shaped him and, in the process, demolishes some of the Custer despisers’ (there are many, and I am one) most cherished myths.... Terrific." —Field & Stream

"Stiles portrays a complex and deeply flawed man... Stiles' biography is a long, detailed, well-researched but highly readable account." —The Denver Post

“Engaging… A teeming portrait of the birth of modern America—and a gripping account of Custer's role in it.” —San Jose Mercury News

“A nuanced, complex and convincing portrait of the man.” —San Francisco Chronicle

“Rousing… An immersive, emphatic, bloody and very assured book.” —Newsday

“A good and meaty biography.” —Christian Science Monitor

“T.J. Stiles portrays Custer in the context of his time, and the man who emerges is much more than merely a martyr or a fool…. [Stiles] goes furthest in exploring [Custer’s] contribution to Union victory during the Civil War and the difficulties he faced adjusting to the world that he helped to create.” —The Daily Beast

"[Stiles's] biography is thorough, engrossing and fair. Custer is seen as a man wearing many faces, some good, some not. The author has done a commendable job drawing out from other sources to write a balanced account of a misunderstood historical figure. A+ read." —San Francisco Book Review

"Well-written and engaging... Custer’s Trials merits a place on the bookshelf alongside Robert M. Utley’s Cavalier in Buckskin, Evan S. Connell’s Son of the Morning Star, and other top Custer biographies." —Civil War Book Review

“Spectacular… a satisfying portrait of a complex, controversial military man… Confidently presenting Custer in all his contradictions, Stiles examines the times to make sense of the man—and uses the man to shed light on the times.” —Publishers Weekly *starred review*

"Stiles presents a much fuller picture of the tragic figure many of us know... Custer's Trials masterfully adds dimension to his life, helping us better understand the man behind the legend." —BookPage

"Stiles doesn’t disappoint with this powerful, provocative biography… A highly recommended modern biography that successfully illuminates the lives of Custer and his family as part of the changing patterns of American society." —Library Journal

"A warts-and-all portrait... Stiles digs deep to deliver genuine insight into a man who never adapted to modernity." —Kirkus Reviews

“T. J. Stiles has written a marvel of a book—the best life of Custer right up to the moment he marched the 7th Cavalry out of Fort Abraham Lincoln while the band played ‘The Girl I Left Behind,’ on their way to whip the Indians.” —Thomas Powers, author of The Killing of Crazy Horse

“This magnificent biography lifts the shroud of myth that has long hovered over Custer. Well-written, exhaustively researched, and full of fresh insights, it does a superb job of re-creating not only his life but even more the world in which he lived. Building on the work of previous writers, Stiles surpasses them all with his breadth of detail and depth of analysis.” —Maury Klein, author, Days of Defiance: Sumter, Secession, and the Coming of the Civil War

“T.J. Stiles has done it again. With this searching, memorable portrait of George Armstrong Custer, Stiles recaptures the complexities of a man whom posterity has been content to caricature. Until now, in this wonderful book.” —Jon Meecham, author of Destiny and Power: The American Odyssey of George H. W. Bush

“T. J. Stiles has written another splendid book. He portrays a real Custer, full of flaws but possessed of outstanding combat skills and leadership. This biography easily overshadows its many predecessors, offering new facts and interpretations as well as a wonderful read.” —Robert Utley, author of Cavalier in Buckskin: George Armstrong Custer and the Western Military Frontier

“Despite the numerous works on Custer, this thoroughly researched and riveting book is new. It is the first to interpret him as a representative of his times.” —Shirley Beckie Reed, author of Elizabeth Bacon Custer and the Making of a Myth

“George A. Custer has proven an enduring metaphor for the American West, an ‘exaggerated American’ seen as flamboyant military hero, icon of national expansion, or doomed oppressor of Native Americans. More even than his compelling portrait of this central figure of American history, T. J. Stiles brilliantly examines Custer within transforming national events—civil war, slavery’s end, and economic and social modernization that privileged the powerful under guise of democratic triumph—proving yet again why he is this generation’s finest biographer.” —Christopher Phillips, author of The Rivers Ran Backward: The Civil War and the Remaking of the American Middle Border

"In this definitive reconsideration of an icon, Stiles reminds us why Custer remains such a fascinating fixture in our national consciousness: To understand Custer is to understand a significant sequence in the American DNA.” —Hampton Sides, author of Blood and Thunder and In the Kingdom of Ice

The Penguin Random House site has an excerpt:

http://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/boo...

Other books by T. J. Stiles

by T.J. Stiles (no photo)

Table of Contents

List of Illustrations xi
List of Maps xiii
Preface xv

Part One - RISE 1839 - 1865

1. The Accused 3
2. The Observer 29
3. The Protege' 51
4. The Prodigy 79
5. The Women 107
6. The General 134
7. The Hero 157
8. The Victor 182

Part Two - FALL 1865 - 1876

9. The Executioner 211
10. The Politician 236
11. The Fallen 255
12. The Indian Killer 295
13. The Financier 329
14. The Writer 354
15. The Enemy 376
16. The Accuser 407
Epilogue 441

Acknowledgements 461
Notes 465
Primary Source Bibliography 545
Index 555

Syllabus and Reading Schedule

This is the Week One Reading Schedule - May 8th through May 14th
This week's reading includes the Preface, Part One - Rise and the chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 - pages xi through 106

List of Illustrations xi
List of Maps xiii
Preface xv

Part One - RISE 1839 - 1865

1. The Accused 3
2. The Observer 29
3. The Protege' 51
4. The Prodigy 79

Syllabus and Reading Schedule

This is the Week Two Reading Schedule - May 15th through May 21st
This week's reading includes Part One - RISE and Chapters 5, 6, 7, and 8 - this week's
reading concluded Part One. Pages assigned are from 107 through 210

Part One - RISE 1839 - 1865

5. The Women 107
6. The General 134
7. The Hero 157
8. The Victor 182

Syllabus and Reading Schedule

This is the Week Three Reading Schedule - May 21st through May 28th
This week's reading includes Part Two - FALL and Chapters 9, 10, 11, and 12. Pages assigned are from 211 through 328.

Part Two - FALL 1865 - 1876

9. The Executioner 211
10. The Politician 236
11. The Fallen 255
12. The Indian Killer 295

Syllabus and Reading Schedule

This is the Week Four Reading Schedule - May 29th through June 4th

This is the Week Four Reading Schedule - May 29th through June 4th
This week's reading concludes Part Two - FALL. Chapters 13, 14, 15, 16 and the Epilogue. Pages assigned are from 329 through 460.

Part Two - FALL 1865 - 1876

13. The Financier 329
14. The Writer 354
15. The Enemy 376
16. The Accuser 407
Epilogue 441

All, I am opening this thread on May 8th so that we can begin the Custer's Trials discussion - remember this is a single thread discussion so you must be careful about spoilers. We do not have this problem on a multi thread discussion.

However for my benefit and for everybody else's I am changing things a bit. If you are posting during the week of the reading schedule and you are only posting information about that week's reading and not going ahead - then you do not have to use the spoiler html. However, if you go ahead of the weekly reading and want to post ahead about some topic or page or quote that we have not been assigned yet and have not read - you are bound to use the spoiler html with the header or your post will be moved to the spoiler glossary thread.

At any time you can post on the spoiler glossary thread but on this discussion thread we are posting and staying with the assignments and not getting ahead if in fact you do not want to be bound to use the spoiler html.

So it is up to you. If you stay with the assignments and do not post about something ahead that is coming up - you do not have to use the spoiler html but if you don't and you get ahead or you want to talk about something expansive then you MUST use the spoiler html or post it on the glossary spoiler thread.

Those of you who are going to read CUSTER'S TRIALS. Use the spoiler html if you plan to post about pages ahead of the weekly discussion because this is a single thread discussion.

1. Read messages 11, 13, 14 and those messages shows you the rules for the BOTM discussion and how to do the spoiler html.

2. Messages 13 and 14 actually show you the spoiler html code. Use it on this thread if you plan to go ahead of the weekly assigned reading or if you become more expansive. You can post expansive material on the glossary thread with spoiler html but here you must use the spoiler html if you get ahead or become too expansive.

3. Where is the Table of Contents and the Weekly Reading Assignments? - Message(s) Six through Ten.

Remember the following:

Everyone is welcome but make sure to use the goodreads spoiler function if you get ahead of the assigned weekly pages.

If you come to the discussion after folks have finished reading it, please feel free to post your comments as we will always come back to the thread to discuss the book.

The rules

You must follow the rules of the History Book Club and also:

First rule of Book of the Month discussions:
Respect other people's opinions, no matter how controversial you think they may be.

Second rule of Book of the Month discussions:
Always, always Chapter/page mark and spoiler alert your posts if you are discussing parts of the book that are ahead of the pages assigned or if you have become expansive it your topics.

To do these spoilers, follows these easy steps:

Step 1. enclose the word spoiler in forward and back arrows; < >

Step 2. write your spoiler comments in

Step 3. enclose the word /spoiler in arrows as above, BUT NOTE the forward slash in front of the word. You must put that forward slash in.

Your spoiler should appear like this:
(view spoiler)

And please mark your spoiler clearly like this:

State a Chapter and page if you can.
EG: Chapter 24, page 154

Or say Up to Chapter *___ (*insert chapter number) if your comment is more broad and not from a single chapter.

Chapter 1, p. 23
(view spoiler)[I know everything now about chapter one and I am going to post it here - oops I better place this in a spoiler alert so I do not ruin the book for others (hide spoiler)]

If you are raising a question/issue for the group about the book, you don't need to put that in a spoiler, but if you are citing something specific, it might be good to use a spoiler.

By using spoilers, you don't ruin the experience of someone who is reading slower or started later or is not reading the assigned pages.

Thanks.

All, we do not have to do citations regarding the book or the author being discussed during the book discussion on these discussion threads - nor do we have to cite any personage in the book being discussed while on the discussion threads related to this book.

However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.

You can copy and paste below to get your spoiler right:

<spoiler>Put Text Here</spoiler>

This is the first week's assignment:

WEEK ONE READING ASSIGNMENT - ( page ) - 5/8/17 - 5/14/17

This is the Week One Reading Schedule - May 8th through May 14th
This week's reading includes the Preface, Part One - Rise and the chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 - pages xi through 106

List of Illustrations xi
List of Maps xiii
Preface xv

Part One - RISE 1839 - 1865

1. The Accused 3
2. The Observer 29
3. The Protege' 51
4. The Prodigy 79

Chapter Overview and Summaries

Discussion Topic One:

1. First, introduce yourself and what interested you about this book and its timeliness.

2. Second, the Preface - discuss your first impressions of the book and the Preface itself. Begin the discussion and interactions. This is your discussion and your learning experience so make the most of it.

We will continue with seeing how things go using this new technique for single thread discussions. It seemed to go fairly well with the previous BOTM discussion so we will continue it here.

We have two threads - the discussion thread which is non spoiler and you are here - this is that thread.

And we have a spoiler thread which is the glossary thread and that is where we place urls, articles, books, videos, podcasts etc, which is ancillary material to assist in the reading of this book.

The glossary thread is also a spot where you can discuss all encompassing aspects of the book or go ahead - but this is not that thread.

So what you need to do here - when you discuss the book - is just stay within the discussion of what is being discussed in the assigned pages for that week and you will be fine and then you do not have to use the spoiler html. If you get ahead of the assigned reading then you should post on the glossary thread. Or you need to use the spoiler html as shown in messages 13 and 14.

Try to stay with the assigned reading for each week and you will be OK. If you get behind that is fine - just catch up.

Remember the more people that post and interact with each other the better. It makes for a wonderful discussion. The discussion begins on May 8th for this book and the discussion continues through June 4th. However, the thread is always open and you can continue to post after that date.

The History Book Club is always available for all readers no matter what their pace is. The BOTM book discussions are faster reads whereas the multi thread discussions are much slower and are at a pace where everybody can read and contribute and even be reading another book at the same time. So we have both here.

We are open.

Please introduce yourselves and let us know your initial thoughts on the Preface.

This is the first week's assignment:

WEEK ONE READING ASSIGNMENT - ( page ) - 5/8/17 - 5/14/17

This is the Week One Reading Schedule - May 8th through May 14th
This week's reading includes the Preface, Part One - Rise and the chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 - pages xi through 106

List of Illustrations xi
List of Maps xiii
Preface xv

Part One - RISE 1839 - 1865

1. The Accused 3
2. The Observer 29
3. The Protege' 51
4. The Prodigy 79

Chapter Overview and Summaries

Preface

Stiles discusses his approach to his biography and how he is going to approach this work. And that "The story begins with its ending".

Part One

RISE - 1839 - 1865

One - The Accused

This chapter discusses George Armstrong Custer's court martial.

Two - The Observer

Custer went to war alone because his court marshall affected his time line for joining the others. First he embarked in New York, then DC and ended up looking for a horse! And then the Civil War was in full swing and for his gallantry he was offered an aide-de-camp position to General McClellan by McClellan himself.

Three - The Protege'

Custer looked up to McClellan. A promotion is given to our protagonist. McClellan grew reckless with the struggle with his political superiors and Custer was tied to the future of the general he was serving. Custer kills his first man and he faces that reality. Then McClellan is relieved.

Four - The Prodigy

Custer learned one thing at McClellan's side - that the Civil War was political. Custer thought that valor might gain him attention, merit might gain him favor, but patronage would save him. He does a favor for a man of influence - the judge's son. Romance enters but it does not have the desired outcome. Pleasanton who Custer was acquainted with due to McClellan's friendship - brings Custer onto his staff. Custer's horse is a horse named Harry. They face Lee. Overnight Custer becomes a brigadier general. Then comes an important battle - the Battle of Gettysburg riding a new horse - Roanoke. Custer was loved by his soldiers; because "he would never ask them to go where he would not lead". And for the men of the Michigan Brigade - he gave them victory.

Discussion Topic One:

1. First, introduce yourself and what interested you about this book and its timeliness.

2. Second, the Preface - discuss your first impressions of the book and the Preface itself. Begin the discussion and interactions. This is your discussion and your learning experience so make the most of it.

Good morning, I am Bentley - Group Founder/Leader - welcome to the May BOTM. For those of you ready to go - start reading the Preface and see this week's assignment above. (Message 18) Post your hellos and your initial thoughts. Why did this book interest you?

For those of you thinking about joining in - you are most welcome to join and it is never took late. Most libraries have the book, it is available on line in any format and via audible.

Post, post, post - the more interactive you are - the more you are going to get out of the conversations with your fellow group members.

What do/did you know about Custer already before you began to read the book?

Note: There is a glossary thread which has a lot of ancillary information and material/videos, etc.

Welcome folks - post and let us know you are reading with us.

T. J. Stiles is a great writer - we begin with the Epigraph:

And how much he suffered merely to appear in his own eyes what he wished to be! - LEO TOLSTOY, "The Raid"



Discussion Topics:

1. How many of you have read Stiles before? Or is this the first book by this author for you?

2. Before reading this book, what did you know about Custer if anything? When did you learn about him and in what context?

3. How many of you have read some Russian literature and have read Tolstoy? If you haven't been introduced to him, you should be - you would be in for a treat. What does this epigraph have to do with the book and Custer? Why do you think that Stiles chose this particular quote to describe our protagonist?


George Custer as a Cadet at West Point

I finished this section. Will post when I'm off work.

That is no problem - we are covering this section this week - Aloha you might want to post a brief hello and indicate why this book interested you.

All, remember we can discuss up through page 107 this week which is this week's assignment without having to use spoiler html but if you go ahead - you must use spoiler html or post on the glossary spoiler thread. This has worked out well in our previous last couple of BOTM offerings.

Hi,

I have not read any books by Stiles. I am looking forward to learning more about Custer. I have really only read about him when he was mentioned in other books or in a text book.

I look forward to expanding my knowledge of him.

Jim welcome - we read another one of his books for the book of the month - That one was about Vanderbilt.

He does excellent research and is a serious historian. But writes remarkably well. That one won the Pulitzer too. But it also won the National Book Award.

by T.J. Stiles (no photo)

Hello,
This will be my first book by T.J. Stiles. I just finished the preface and am rather intrigued. To be honest, I too am only familiar with his end. I'm looking forward to learning the rest of his story. He already seems to be a very interesting person.

Billy - I think many folks know him only for Custer's Last Stand and that is it - so you are not alone - welcome to the conversation and discussion.

I'm halfway through Chapter 1 at this point. I've always been intrigued by Custer going back to my fascination with the Civil War which started with Michael Schaara's The Killer Angels The Killer Angels . The last book I read about Custer was Nathanial Philbrick's Last Stand The Last Stand: Custer, Sitting Bull, and the Battle of the Little Bighorn. What piqued my interest about this book specifically was listening to TJ Stiles talk about it at the Tucson Book Festival.

The preface laid out well the author's intention of going beyond the legend or notoriety of GAC. Whether he's a hero or the evil destroyer of Native Americans changed throughout time. Stiles laid out the complexity of contradictions in American history and culture. Apropo GAC was "the exaggerated American".

Sorry, I forgot to introduce myself. Aloha! To be honest, I was never much interested in Custer beyond the statement, "Custer's Last Stand". The book won the Pulitzer and I wanted to go through my list of Pulitzer winners. The book drew me in. It's a very well-written and complex book, but not difficult.

Hello Tim - welcome - just a reminder - we cite books here with the book cover, author's photo and author's link - sometimes the author's photo is not available and we place (no photo) at the end. Additionally in the white space to the right - you will see links to the books mentioned on the thread and their authors listed separately with links to other threads where these authors and books are mentioned.

The Mechanics of the Board thread in the Help Desk folder will help you further. We do this so that the powerful goodreads software will cross populate our group site.

As far as Killer Angels - though historical fiction - it is quite accurate. And it is a great great book focused on the Civil War and the Gettysburg battle. I also like Philbrick but have not read that book that you mentioned. I will have to.

Good for you Tim on getting to Chapter One - we are reading for this week only to the end of Chapter 4 - page 107 - for week 2 we will read and discuss the next four.

I hope that this helps you with the citations. We don't really use the title links here - we just type normally and place the citations at the bottom on the comment box.

You only have to do citations during a discussion for books and authors that we are not discussing.

For other threads - you have probably noticed that we do citations.

Use the add book/author area where you got your links.

But instead of the radio button (link) when you have book highlighted - fill the radio button (cover) first and that will give you the html for your book cover - then we type in the word by between the ending bracket of the html for the book cover and the beginning html bracket for the author's photo.

You get the author's photo but going in again and this time making sure that the word author is now underlined and selecting photo first and adding that and then link next and adding that - that should give you the citations that appear below.

They take about 3 seconds when you have it down and that way the goodreads software cross populates our site and all of goodreads for these books and authors.

On a personal note - I take it you are joining our discussion from the great state of Arizona. Glad to have you with us.

by Michael Shaara

by Nathaniel Philbrick

Aloha welcome again - you make some great observations about Custer - I think for many of us - he became an iconic figure representing our adversarial past with Native Americans even though he met a sad end.

There probably was not a lot more that most Americans knew about the man - so hopefully this book will change all of that.

Aloha wrote: "Sorry, I forgot to introduce myself. Aloha! To be honest, I was never much interested in Custer beyond the statement, "Custer's Last Stand". The book won the Pulitzer and I wanted to go through my ..."

I agree - Stiles has a nice fluid style (no pun intended though homonyms) and he makes for a relaxed read.

Just saw your post on the quote from Tolstoy, I just purchased and downloaded a short story collection containing "The Raid" and will get back on that. Based on the description of Custer, he had an inferiority complex, coming from a blacksmithing family. His golden hair was an object of ridicule in military school yet made him a standout with the ladies. He was vain and likes attention, sometimes playing pranks. He loves battle for its own sake.

So my guess on the Tolstoy quote would be that Custer's vanity led to his doom, his desire to appear brave and gallant. His overconfidence led him to underestimate the opposition.

Aloha that is a great idea - I am glad that you did that. I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts about the choice of epigraph.

I agree - it is like the boy who gets a full scholarship to an elite prep school like Eton or Philips Exeter and yet doesn't feel "good enough" because of his family background - even though that full scholarship is a beacon of their stellar qualifications and superior intellect and talents. They just don't see how they fit in with their family background and view it as a disability.

Interesting view - maybe he also underestimated his self worth. And possibly this overconfidence was a bit of bravado. We shall see - would be interested to hear some other views and also circle back on this and give us some input from the Tolstoy story.

As you join in on the conversation - please introduce yourself and post and just mention why this book interests you.

Then as we go through the book - I will post discussion questions, topics, ancillary material here and within the glossary to stimulate conversation and interaction. Go through the questions and post your opinions and thoughts - your ideas are valid here and will contribute to the back and forth of the conversation.

Questions on the epigraph and some kick off questions have already been posted and I will begin the deep dive of the Preface first.

Deep Dive - the Preface

As you join in on the conversation - please introduce yourself and post and just mention why this book interests you.

Then as we go through the book - I will post discussion questions, topics, ancillary material here and within the glossary to stimulate conversation and interaction. Go through the questions and post your opinions and thoughts - your ideas are valid here and will contribute to the back and forth of the conversation.

Questions on the epigraph and some kick off questions have already been posted and I will begin the deep dive of the Preface first.

Deep Dive - the Preface


Custer (in Virginia in 1862) began his ascent on the Peninsula Campaign, when he led an attack that resulted in the taking of 50 Rebel prisoners. (Library of Congress Prints and Photographs Division)


Custer posting with other Union officers in Virginia in 1862

I guess we could say that Custer loved dogs.

And so we begin:

Stiles writes: "The story begins with its ending. On June 25, 1876, George Armstrong Custer led the 7th. US Cavalry Regiment to the Little Bighorn in the Montana Territory, where Lakota and Northern Cheyenne warriors surrounded him and a detachment of more than 200 troops and slaughtered them to a man. Renowned as Custer's Last Stand, it was the greatest defeat inflicted upon the US Army in the late nineteenth century Indian wars. Like John Hancock's signing of the Declaration of Independence, it is the one fact about the man that lives in American memory.

Discussion Topics:

1. Is the Battle of Little Bighorn River in Montana the only fact that most folks know about Custer?

2. Do you feel that in most instances when writers wrote about Custer that they only focused on his death as if that is what defined him? Why would writers create a persona where their complete hypothesis was how Custer ended up defeated and annihilated that day?

3. What are your thoughts on this quote - "Custer has been shorthand for hubris, ignorance, and had-it-coming,"Timothy Egan observed in the New York Times on November 30, 2012, "but in earlier decades Custer was a hero."

4. Did Custer's death forever cast him as only a frontier soldier?

5. How do you feel about Stiles "changing the camera angle" of how he tells Custer's story? Stiles states - "I want to explain why his celebrity, and notoriety, spanned both the Civil War and his years on the frontier, resting on neither exclusively but incorporating both."

6. How do you answer some of these questions - these might be questions that you might want to come back to as you read the book?

a) How do we reconcile the buckskin-clad outdoorsman and Indian fighter with the Midwesterner, college graduate and professional writer?

b) Or the battlefield emancipator with the avowed white supremacist?

c) Or the widely admired military professional with the malefactor who was court-martialed twice in six years?

d) Or the loyal friend, loving brother and son, and devoted husband, with the oversensitive, sarcastic gambler who craved attention and intrigued with other women?

e) Then there was the entrepreneur, political partisan, and urbane theater lover. How do we integrate all of these conflicting parts?

7. What did Stiles mean when he said that "George Armstrong Custer lived on a chronological frontier even more than a geographical one."

8. What do you know about the Jacksonian laissez-faire populism? (does it represent the Trump times?)

9. How would you explain the Republican's Free Labor philosophy at that time?

10. What do know about the Indian Wars and how the American Indians were coping with Westward Expansion?

11. When one thinks of the casualties of World War II of 416, 800 casualties (American soldiers) - how does one fathom an internal war (the Civil War) which destroyed the South and killed three-quarters of a million people state side? We understand that 4 Million slaves were freed and it preserved the Union. Did the motivation by the central government of asserting national unity and federal authority and its ultimate victory make up for destroying a large part of the country and killing its own people?

12. How was the motivation to crush the Indians (America's indigenous people) the same as the Civil War? What were the similarities and what were the differences from your perspective. Were these "just" responses in both cases? How were they different? What else could have been done otherwise?

13. Why would an accomplished soldier who understood industrialized warfare fight with a sword at the head of cavalry charges? What did that tell you about Custer?

14. How do you think Custer helped to destroy slavery, implemented emancipation and civil rights and yet he never accepted that the African Americans were equal to himself nor did he believe in civil rights?

15. Are you surprised that Custer married an intelligent and very educated woman and employed an outspoken former slave as their cook?

16. How was as Stiles puts it - that Custer represented the "exaggerated American"?

17. How do you think Stiles felt that Custer confronted questions still asked today?

a) What do equality and humanity mean?

b) Is there room for the individual in an organizational society?

c) When does individuality become mere selfishness?

d) How can a minority's distinctiveness and autonomy survive amid a mass-market, globalized culture?

e) How to cope with a time of dramatic change?

f) Does the hero still live?

Hello, I'm Happy

I actually read this last year. IMO it is a 5 star read. I've also read his bio of the first Vanderbilt.

by T.J. Stiles (no photo)

I think Stiles is an excellent writer and has a very readable style.

I first got interested in Custer as a boy while living in Ft. Sill, OK. While he was never officially stationed there (Ft. Sill wasn't established until in summer of 1869), he was in the area during the 1868/9 winter campaign and there are quite a few historical markers about him scattered around.

My views of him have evolved over the years - from a glory hound/incompetent commander, to my current one - that while a flawed human being, was a very good combat commander and almost any of the other Indian fighting commanders would have performed similiarly at the Little Big Horn.

I visited LBH battlefield three or four years ago and it still is in the middle of nowhere. That visit changed my view of the battle somewhat, but the main impression I had was that it was that there was no way Benteen could have reinforced Custer and that the LBH was and still is a lonely place to die!

Happy welcome - be careful of spoilers as you go along. I imagine that you are reading this in Oklahoma right now - glad to have you with us.

Yes, scientists and researchers have been excavating various parts of the battlefield and can ascertain a lot of how the actual battle was fought.

From your perspective it appears that Custer's position was wide open.

George Armstrong Custer, his wife Libbie and their cook, Eliza

Discussion Topics:

1. After viewing the photo - what are your thoughts about the photograph itself and the expressions on the faces and body language of the personages being photographed?

2. Did you wonder whose idea was this photo?

In the Preface - Stiles quotes Timothy Egan in the New York Times - this is a quote from the NYT article where Egan cites Custer's book - My Life on the Plains as follows when he was writing a review of a book by McMurty:

“My Life on the Plains,” in which he says: “If I were an Indian I think that I would greatly prefer to cast my lot with those of my people who adhered to the free life of the plains rather than to the limits of a reservation, there to be the recipient of the blessed benefits of civilization, with the vices thrown in without stint or measure.”

by George Armstrong Custer (no photo)

Discussion Topics:

1. What are your thoughts on this quote? What did Custer reveal about himself?

2. Did you ever hear of the Wide Awakes (smile)?

More:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/boo...

by Larry McMurtry


The crisis that led to the Civil War overshadowed Custer's years at West Point, and the city of New York loomed large in his life. This engraving depicts uniformed Republican "Wide Awakes" on parade for Abraham Lincoln on October 3, 1860, on Park Row, center of the newspaper and publishing trade. - Library of Congress

To generate voter enthusiasm for Lincoln, the Wide-Awakes staged dramatic nighttime parades illuminated by six-foot-long kerosene torches. They wore glazed caps and oilcloth capes to protect themselves from the dripping hot oil and sparks that shot off the torches as they marched with precision through the streets.

"Grand Procession of Wide Awakes at New York," Harper's Weekly, October 13, 1860

CHICAGO HISTORY MUSEUM, ICHi-52578


Kerosene torch from Lincoln's presidential campaign, 1860

CHICAGO HISTORY MUSEUM, ICHi-52638

Bentley wrote: "Happy welcome - be careful of spoilers as you go along. I imagine that you are reading this in Oklahoma right now - glad to have you with us.

Yes, scientists and researchers have been excavating v..."

Actually I live in Utah - about 8 hr drive from the LBH. I'll be careful. I will probably have to recheck it out of the library just for reference :)

As far a the picture goes - probably GAC idea and it is a bit suprising that Eliza is actually part of it. (view spoiler)[ It probably shows the power Eliza had in the household (hide spoiler)]

Who were the Wide Awakes?

New York Times
THE WIDE-AWAKES.; Fear of the Wide-Awakes at the South Idle Apprehensions.

http://www.nytimes.com/1860/09/29/new...

and

New York, Nov. 2, 1860
Young Republicans with axes! New York firemen run amok!
Welcome to election week, 1860

And we thought last year's election was rough - here is another article:

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...

More:
http://civilwarlibrarian.blogspot.com...
http://archive.oah.org/special-issues...

Sources: The Journal of American History, Civil War Librarian, The New York Times

Here is their song: (from the Library of Congress)

https://www.loc.gov/resource/amss.cw1...

Imagine seeing this crew?

happy wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Happy welcome - be careful of spoilers as you go along. I imagine that you are reading this in Oklahoma right now - glad to have you with us.

Yes, scientists and researchers have b..."

That is a good idea Happy - thank you for using the spoiler html. The photo was referenced in the preface on xix so you were OK on that one.

Welcome from Utah.

Modernization Theory:

In the Preface - Stiles discusses Modernization Theory. Did you understand what he was talking about or referring to?

Discussion Topics:

1. Were you unsure of the connection in terms of the timeframe - when Modernization theory is more inclined to be discussed with the 1950's and 1960's? Or did you think that Stiles was actually referring to Max Weber? It appears that this might be the case.

2. What did you think of the quote of Max Weber?

Works cited:

by Eugen Weber (no photo)

by Alan Trachtenberg (no photo)

by Richard Maxwell Brown (no photo)

by Clyde A. Milner III (no photo)

Preface Continued:


Battle of Little Big Horn - On June 25, 1876 General George Armstrong Custer and his entire force were defeated and killed by Lakota and Northern Cheyenne Indians, led by Sitting Bull, at the Battle of Little Bighorn, in Montana Territory

Stiles in the notes for the Preface states the following:

"I find that George Armstrong Custer (GAC) was the anti organization man, unable to thrive in an institutional or corporate environment. The only role in which he flourished was that of the cavalier trooper."

Discussion Topics:

1. So far, and it could be too early - but do you agree with Stiles - that GAC was only good at being a frontier cavalier trooper and had no other skill sets - that he could never adequately fit into an "organization"?

2. Another author is cited by Stiles as seeing GAC as "a member of the professional class of scholarly gentlemen...an early type of organization man, hiding in the costumes of the cavalier trooper and the Frontier buckskin." Do you agree more with Slotkin's assessment in this quote?

3. What was there about Custer that Stiles only saw him as an "anti organization man?

Note: The members might want to think about the assessments implied in the Preface and the notes for the Preface and judge Custer themselves allowing for their own assessments to formulate and gel as they continue reading the book and learning about Custer.

More references cited by Stiles:

by Richard Slotkin (no photo)

I will be moving on to Chapter One tomorrow for the deep dive. But readers just jump in and post your thoughts on any of the discussion questions thus far or launch some questions of your own. We do not have right or wrong answers - everybody reads the book and interprets it their own way. We help lead the way.

Bentley wrote: "This is the first week's assignment:


WEEK ONE READING ASSIGNMENT - ( page ) - 5/8/17 - 5/14/17


This is the Week One Reading Schedule - May 8th through May 14th
This week's reading includes t..."

Discussion Topic One:

1. First, introduce yourself and what interested you about this book and its timeliness.

Hi all. I am interested in this book because I have a general interest in the American West and history, am currently studying American Indian law, am interested in military history, and am interested in West Point graduates who were battlefield generals (my favorite of which is currently Thomas Jackson).

I am probably not aware of current events enough to know all the significance regarding the timeliness of this book. For me, the book will likely speak to the always relevant theme of a person trying to make something of themselves in a dynamic and competitive environment, and it will offer a perspective of a person who many have alleged committed modern human rights violations (experienced in the world now) in a past era.

-Leo

Bentley wrote: "T. J. Stiles is a great writer - we begin with the Epigram:

And how much he suffered merely to appear in his own eyes what he wished to be! - LEO TOLSTOY, "The Raid"

Discussion Topics:

1. How ma..."

Discussion Topics:

1. How many of you have read Stiles before? Or is this the first book by this author for you?

I have not read Stiles before.

2. Before reading this book, what did you know about Custer if anything? When did you learn about him and in what context?

I have read about Custer and the Battle of Little Bighorn briefly. I have encountered mentions of his story in biographies (Hiram Grant's latest if I recall correctly and Bartholemew Masterson's). (view spoiler)[I have heard that Custer is the youngest battlefield general, various speculations for the loss at Little Bighorn, and the fact that his wife fought to move Custer's remains to West Point's cemetery, which created some controversy. (hide spoiler)]

3. How many of you have read some Russian literature and have read Tolstoy? If you haven't been introduced to him, you should be - you would be in for a treat. What does this epigram have to do with the book and Custer? Why do you think that Stiles chose this particular quote to describe our protagonist?

I have attempted to read Russian literature, but it has been fiction and I haven't been able to get through it. Last attempt was Fathers and Sons. I have Tolstoy on my to read list. I think this epigram alludes to the main theme of the book and Custer's personality. I think Stiles chose this quote, because Custer's story will show a person who was trying to live up to unrealistic expectations for himself.

-Leo

by Ronald C. White Jr. (no photo)

by Tom Clavin (no photo)
by Ivan Turgenev