Return of the Rogue Readers discussion

Discussion time!

What did everyone think of this book?

I loved it! I was hooked from the first sentence and blitzed through it. I felt like the author did a great job with the character development, but the ending surprised me. I felt like the pilot storyline kind of came out of nowhere. I look forward to hearing everyone else's thoughts!

I enjoyed it too, and after reading your comment I think I agree about the copilot. In hindsight, the way the story ended felt a bit rushed. I wonder if the author had longer drafts previously, and was encouraged to trim it down, or if this was just how he felt the story should evolve.

I found the line "Since when does how a thing looks matter more than what it is?" particularly interesting. The way Before the Fall portrays the media as predatory animals that fly into a frenzy at the scent of blood mirrors my own opinion of them. I found Bill Cunningham to be the most repulsive character, by a mile, even when compared to the copilot who caused the crash.

Which characters did you guys like and dislike?

I had hoped the boy would play a larger role in the overall story, but I think his character arc was closer to reality than the kind of fairy tale ending we see so often in fiction. Now that I think of it, none of the characters were of the outstanding fairy tale variety. They all had realistic flaws and strengths, some more pronounced than others.

Kila, since you were the first to reply I'll start by asking you, but I am curious what everyone else thinks too. Up until the end of the hospital scenes, what direction did you think the book was going in?

I really thought it would be tied to the money laundering. Maybe a terrorist attack. When that mechanic said something to Ben Kipling before he got on the plane - "enjoy the ride" or "rough night for a flight" or something like that - I thought for sure that's how it was going to end.

Bill Cunningham was absolutely vile and I really wanted him to get more of a comeuppance in the end. And he really didn't, other than Scott walking off of his show. That was disappointing.

Hello Kila, I too am a new member of this club. I enjoyed this book for the most part, but it wasn't really my kind of read. First of all, I found most of the characters to be morally bankrupt and largely without redeeming characteristics. Maggie is borderline unfaithful (maybe more), Ben Kipling is greedy and corrupt, his wife had virtually no presence in this novel, and our protagonist is an unmotivated addict trying to skate through life. Add to that the drug-abusing stewardess and the mentally ill copilot. The only victims of the crash that didn't strike me as problematic were the pilot, the boy, and David Bateman. Even the security guard led a life of violence and sin.

With that being said, I understand this is fiction and not all characters can adhere to my well-developed moral compass. Overall I enjoyed the story and I thought the ending worked well enough. Unlike Kila and Jordan, I enjoyed Bill Cunningham. He struck me as a harsh, but just man. Someone who stuck to his guns and followed a gut feeling. I respect that in a leader and I think it excuses him from a little light bullying now and then. When you are fighting against the evils of the world, you can't treat everyone with kid gloves.

Leading up the the hospital scenes, I thought this was going to be a story about survival at sea, or on an island. I thought they would wash up on some tiny deserted island off the New York coast and be tormented by being so close to help, yet unable to signal anyone.

Hello everyone!

I, too, enjoyed this book. It had it's strong points as well as a couple of weak ones, but overall it was an engaging story. I was also surprised by the copilot and his sudden major role in the story line. It was such a sudden turn that came out of nowhere that it threw me for a minute. It wasn't where I thought the story was going at all. I am not sure it was the strongest possible story line to go with, but it did add a surprising element to the book.

To answer the question you posed, Jordan, I wasn't completely sure where it was going. A few possible scenarios played in my head. The strongest possibility in my mind at the time was that it had to do with the money laundering, as Kila also mentioned. They kept going back to it throughout the story and then when Kipling was threatened by some of his clients it gave validity to that idea. The suspense of the threat and of the pending trial added a bit more excitement to the story.

Ryan, I have to agree with Jordan and Kila that Bill Cunningham was quite horrible with his O'Reilly-esque antics. He was not at all concerned with the truth, although that is what he preached. He was focused, instead on getting the most interesting 'breaking news' to drive his ratings. The deceased were supposed to be friends of his and he used their death, their story, and their son to make himself more famous or noteworthy in his line of business.

It's always interesting to me to hear from people who feel so differently than I do. So I'm interested in your take on Bill Cunningham, Ryan. I would argue that he's an absolutely terrible person! Recording people illegally and without their knowledge and grandstanding about his boss's death when he had been fired the week before. He was despicable in my opinion.

I would also argue that Maggie wasn't anywhere close to infidelity. She was friendly with Scott and when she went to his home to see his paintings, she took her children. I think she was just a nice, generous woman who was trying to help an acquaintance by offering him a ride on the plane.

Two characters we haven't discussed but that are also interesting to me are the aunt and her husband. I have a five year old son, so I can't imagine how difficult it would be to handle a little boy dealing with the crash and the death of his entire family. The aunt (I can't remember her name for the life of me!) handled it well and I was glad to see her kick her loser husband to the curb.

Wow, I liked this book! What a suspenseful tale!!! I couldn't put it down like Kila! I read summaries before I got into the book so I had a good idea of what was going to happen but it was still very surprising. I thought the crash was going to be by terrorists since they kept talking about special windows and bomb glass lol. Maybe that was to throw me off the scent?

Bill Cunningham was bad but he didn't kill anyone. That crazy pilot killed everyone on that plane except Scott and JJ. I just couldnt believe that. I kept expecting them to find someone out there. That poor boy has to grow up all alone now and his only family is an aunt and uncle who drink.

Kila I totally agree about the aunt kicking the husband to the curb! That guy was a piece of hipster crap lol! Sorry I forgot to say this in my last message.

This is a good discussion! I'm happy to see such enthusiastic responses.

Ryan, your post interests me for a few reasons. The idea that this might be a survival story crossed my mind at one point. In the early pages, I definitely felt that was a possibility.

I think your review of the characters is a bit harsh, but I can kinda see some of the logic. As I mentioned above, I felt like the characters were written deliberately as more realistic and natural instead of flawless and ideal. I read a lot of different kinds of books, including fantasy, and in many of those novels, I meet protagonists (and sometimes antagonists) that are nearly perfect in every way. In The Kingkiller Chronicle, for example, the main character is obnoxiously perfect. He is the best musician, the best swordsman, the best mage. He is so wonderful that when he applies to wizard college (knowing he is too young to enter) not only is he accepted, but the grand wizards pay him to be there! I stopped reading at this point in the novel and I'm not sure how it turns out for him, but if I had to guess I would say he goes on to become the president and win the Superbowl.

The main character of that book was boring and fake, in my opinion. Yes, I realize I am talking about a book where wizards roam the countryside, but even in that universe, this guy seemed bogus to me. In contrast, the characters in Before the Fall felt real enough to have been actual people I have met in life. In this novel, I consider that a strength.

As for your personal attachment to Bill Cunningham, I think we will have to agree to disagree here. I found his behavior to be self-serving, cruel, and free of any greater "morality."

Switching gears a bit. Kila, do you think JJ will have a good life with his aunt?

Danielle, Bill Cunningham felt more like Nancy Grace to me. You make a good point about Kipling being threatened. By that point in the story, I too thought it was going to be about some foreign bad guys killing off a loose end.

Amy, I can see why you thought terrorism. They did mention the bomb-proof office a few times. Plus, there was all the lead up about the daughter getting kidnapped and the Israeli guard. If it's any consolation to you, I think Kila is right that the aunt kicked her hipster husband out. After his interview with Cunningham, I doubt she will let him back in.

This was the first book I've read this year that wasn't nonfiction or didn't involve the supernatural somehow. It was a pleasant change of pace and I am glad you chose this, Brandi!

Kila, I admit Bill was abrasive, but sometimes we need a man like that to get things done. Take our president, for example. 8 years of drudgery and madness and now we finally have someone making a difference.

With this story specifically, imagine being in Bill's position. He just lost his best friend and he is grieving. He is angry and scared and he doesn't think the authorities are doing enough to sort it out. He has the power to make a difference and he wanted to leave no stone unturned. He wasn't friendly or polite about it, but contrary to popular opinion, being impolite isn't a crime. He was a man seeking answers and justice and he was doing everything he could to accomplish it.

Danielle, I don't think he was totally uninterested in the truth. Any boost in ratings would only result in the media empire growing in power a wealth; a media empire now owned by the orphan JJ. It wasn't self-serving entirely, but this is America and the way we do things is to capitalize on every opportunity. He didn't hurt anyone.

I have read the available volumes of the Kingkiller Chronicles and I thought they were great, Jordan. I am not surprised we don't agree here, but like Kila, I welcome a friendly debate. Should we start a thread for those books?

You make an excellent point, Amy. The Co-pilot was the real enemy here. He murdered innocent people. How is that less evil than a talk show host?

I am Honestly not much of reader although I am trying to change that. I enjoyed this book for the most part. I felt the story was intriguing, it kept you second guessing. I liked the way the author flashed back on all the passengers lives and yet they were all somewhat relatable. Wasn't a fan of Bill he was too arrogant and obviously all about publicity and rating . I feel for JJ the most I cant imagine being so young and having to endure such a tragedy. The ending definitely caught me off guard, it was not what i was expecting.

Brandi, I'm sorry for the slow reply! I didn't notice you had posted.

Was the ending satisfactory to you? Did you enjoy it or was it too jarring?

I think all of the humans here are in agreement about Bill. Sorry Ryan! (although please feel free to open a discussion on the Kingkiller books)

What kind of books do you enjoy? Have you read any of our other selections?