Never too Late to Read Classics discussion

The Raw Youth (Russian: Подросток, Podrostok), also published as The Adolescent or An Accidental Family, is a novel by Russian writer Fyodor Dostoyevsky.

The novel chronicles the life of 19-year-old intellectual, Arkady Dolgoruky, illegitimate child of the controversial and womanizing landowner Versilov. A focus of the novel is the recurring conflict between father and son, particularly in ideology, which represents the battles between the conventional "old" way of thinking in the 1840s and the new nihilistic point of view of the youth of 1860s Russia. Whereas the young of Arkady's time embraced a very negative opinion of Russian culture in contrast to Western or European culture.

Discussion Leaders will be Tony and Lesle

Actually you can read The Adolescent as a PDF free from goodreads, as "The Raw Youth" go to link:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Msg 1 right here in our Groups "Fundamentals" to see how!

From Member Tony:

I'd suggest starting this read in. say, 10 days so 25th May.

My interest is because I've enjoyed other Dostoevsky novels. This one seems to divide opinion but there are still many who rate it highly. It is about an Adolescent, Arkady, who tells us his story.

Arkady is described as a clear and often complex character, struggling to come to terms with his life and his place within the world.

As you can see Im in!

Actually the 25th is my first day of vacation! I have as yet decided when Im going back to work might be the 7th or 8th! who knows as of now! :)

I have to admit I have not read any of Dostoyevsky's work. I was kind of nervous about reading his best first. So Im glad you brought this one to light for me.

Yes, I'm thinking this is easier than his big works - less philosophical, more psychological.

I have heard it described as a 19th Century Russian 'Catcher in the Rye' We'll see!

Tony, that does sound intriguing!

One difficulty that you sometimes have with Russian novels is the character names because they can be referred to formally and informally and they can look different.

It's always useful to have alist of names, and variations to hand. so I've copied this list below for the characters in this book: -

Dolgorúky, Arkády Makárovich (Arkásha, Arkáshenka, Arkáshka): the adolescent, ‘‘author’’ of the novel.

Dolgorúky, Makár Ivánovich: his legal father.

Dolgorúky, Sófya Andréevna (Sónya, Sophie): his mother.

Dolgorúky, Lizavéta Makárovna (Líza, Lízochka, Lizók): his sister.

Versílov, Andréi Petróvich: natural father of Arkady and Liza.

Versilov, Ánna Andréevna: Versilov’s daughter by his first marriage.

Versilov, Andréi Andréevich: the kammerjunker (a gentleman in waiting), Versilov’s son by his first marriage.

Akhmákov, Katerína Nikoláevna (Kátya): young widow of General Akhmakov.

Akhmákov, Lýdia: her stepdaughter.

Sokólsky, Prince Nikolái Ivánovich: the old prince, Mme. Akhmakov’s father.

Prutkóv, Tatyána Pávlovna: the ‘‘aunt,’’ friend of the Versilov family.

Sokólsky, Prince Sergéi Petróvich (Seryózha): the young prince, no relation to Prince Nikolai Ivanovich.

Lambért, Mauríce: schoolfriend of Arkady’s, a Frenchman.

Verdáigne, Alphonsíne de (Alphonsina, Alphonsinka): Lambert’s girlfriend.

Dárya Onísimovna (no family name; her name changes to Nastásya Egórovna in Part Three): mother of the young suicide Ólya (diminutive of Ólga).

Vásin, Grísha (diminutive of Grigóry;): friend of Arkady’s.

Stebelkóv: Vasin’s stepfather.

Pyótr Ippolítovich: Arkady’s landlord.

Nikolái Semyónovich: Arkady’s tutor in Moscow.

Semyónovich, Márya Ivánovna: Nikolai Semyonovich’s wife.

Trishátov, Pétya [i.e., Pyótr]: the pretty boy.

Andréev, Nikolái Semyónovich: le grand dadais.

Semyón Sídorovich (Sídorych): the pockmarked one.

Oh my word! I had no idea!
Thanks Tony, for the Character List.

Maybe a good idea to review before we begin reading! and during?

Yes, good to get the characters sorted.

When reading I get in the habit of reading it as their main name even when a different variation is used.

So, for example, for Arkady, even if I see it written as Arkasha or Arkashenka I will say it as Arkady in my mind. Just helps for me anyway.

Great tip Tony! I am sure that is very helpful in keeping them straight.

We have three (3) days left, we would love for you to join in on another of
Fyodor Dostoyevsky's works.

While researching about Dostoyevsky I found this quote:

The Norwegian novelist Knut Hamsun wrote that "No one has analysed the complicated human structure as Dostoyevsky. His psychologic sense is overwhelming and visionary."

Hi Lesle,

Ready to start? Happy Holidays to you.

Hey Tony!
I will be tomorrow, or maybe tonight, once I am off work. I am so excited for this read Tony! I hope you will not mind questions, since I have not read any of his works before.

Is there a hint about his writing style that might help, other than his list of characters. (Which by the way I printed off!)

Hi Lesle,

Yes, I've not done a buddy read before so I think it will help me if i'm responding to your thoughts and questions, so ask away.

This novel is written in the first person which is unusual for Dostoevsky (the only other one I can think of is Notes from Underground) and, having read the first couple of chapters, the lead character, Arkady, seems much less developed than a typical Dostoevsky character - in fact a Raw Youth.

As in all Dostoevsky's though, it's about what is going on in the minds of our characters, and what lies beneath the surface.

As in all Dostoevsky's though, it's about what is going on in the minds of our characters, and what lies beneath the surface.

I did not know that about him. So you have to read between the lines as they say?

We still have to see what happens in this novel, but it comes back to your Knut Hamsun quote.


He is getting us inside the head of Arkady, the adolescent - his thoughts are sometimes clear, sometimes not, they may need developing, they may be contradictory, but looks like the relationship he has, or wants, with his real father Versilov is at the centre of things.

Arkady's legal father is the husband of his true mother that is a serf. Sofya and Versilov are his true parents.

Versilov (Lord) is not much different than Masters of plantations with servants.

Arkady seems to be having problems in just deciding who he is by surname and what that comes with, as he keeps changing the description that goes with his last name, Dolgorúky.

Tony, was Arkady not raised by Makar and Sofya? or is this just the first time he tried to understand the relationship between Versilov and Sofya?

It seems a little odd for a YA to need to know details.

I think Arkady was farmed out and brought up by others, including being at boarding schools.

Makar became a 'wanderer' (seen in Russian novels - a perpetual pilgrim)

Sofya went off with Versilov but did not marry him as she was still married to Makar.

Chapter 2: -

Arkady working for the old Prince.
I like Arkady saying of the old Prince "He's just right for our high school, and for the 4th class at that - he'd make the nicest schoolmate".

Arkady has a very negative attitude to women. (Is that because he is illegitimate?)

The Prince reveals Versilov as a man of the world and a religious convert.

Katya arrives! what is the connection between her and Versilov?

Chapter 3: -

Arkady at the auction and then at the underground meeting.

Arkady talks about "you have to replace one feeling with another"

Arkady "Why should I love my neighbour or your future mankind?" This is a Dostoevsky theme - if no God, then no rules worth following.

Arkady keen to know what Vasin (who he respects?) thinks of Versilov.

Just finishing up with Chapter 1 (Sorry Tony a bit behind, have the Grandsons for a few more days, School is out!)

"I shall never be alone as I have been for so many awful years..."

I feel like Arkady hated his childhood with no parents. Now I feel like he is trying to understand why he was sent off with others instead of with family. Like he is hunting for the love he was never given.

Lesle wrote: "I feel like Arkady hated his childhood with no parents. Now I feel like he is trying to understand why he was sent off with others instead of with family. Like he is hunting for the love he was never given. "

Lesle, I think that is exactly right. Some point further on Arkady says it's not the family name I need but "all my life I've needed Versilov himself, the whole man, the father".


Don't worry about being behind - I know what it's like for grandchildren to take over your life!

I'm going to finish Part I and take a break and give you time to catch up.

I got a chapter in before the boys woke up this morning!

Chapter 2

He really has no respect for women at all, he states his reasoning is 'They have no manners'. Bustles and Cushion! Maybe your right.

He like to keep to himself, but seems to really enjoy his talks with the Prince. The Prince has figured from their discussions that he had an unhappy childhood. He calls Arkady 'dear child' often which irrates him until he understands it really is a term of endearment.

Which reminds me Tony, why does the Prince speak at times in French? I must of missed something again!

I like this saying from the Prince 'Je sais tout, mais je ne sais rien de bon'

Anna and the Cushion come to visit. She is 3 yrs older and seems much more mature and educated than her brother (Arkady).

So far I am enjoying Arkady's perspective of his life and trying to understand him. I hope he becomes a more rounded person later.

Wow do I have some reading to squeese in to catch up!

I like this saying from the Prince 'Je sais tout, mais je ne sais rien de bon'

I like this too Lesle. The Old Prince hasn't been in the novel much but I really like him.

Speaking French was an important thing for Russian nobility from the late 18th Century through the 19th Century and you see French used a lot by all the major Russian novelists, especially Tolstoy. Tolstoy often talks about being 'comme il faut' - of the right sort - and part of being comme il faut, for Russian nobility, included being proficient in French, especially conversational French.

I think this comes from the fact that Russia was behind Western Europe in its development (it didn't emancipate serfs until 1861) and the Russian nobility admired France, Britain and even Germany and Italy, but most of all France and, to raise themselves, speaking French became very fashionable and quite fundamental. Originally, I guess, this came from the 'glamour' of the Court of Versailles and later by the Parisian upper class lifestyle of the mid 19th century.

I think it's a sign of a good translator that this French usage is kept in the dialogue and not translated into English.

There is, for example, a lot of conversational French in War and Peace and the opening paragraph is completely in French. I think Tolstoy wanted to contrast the fact that Russia was at war with France but their nobility wanted to act French. At one dinner party they even say they should fine themselves every time they speak in French since they are at war with them.

Arkady is certainly developing by the end of part one though not yet rounded! You might find chapter 3 full of stuff as you get just bits of information, but things start to clear up later.

The 'underground' meeting Arkady goes to in chapter 3 was typical of the time. The younger generation were looking for new directions and not to follow the 'old russia' ways. There was a lot of earnestness in youth. Arkady, though, is confused in his thinking here.

Thanks Tony for the information on the French speaking. I am glad I chose a Kindle edition that left it in. I can see the meaning in some of the words, (English only for me, but it does make me think a little!)

I guess I should just go ahead and admit I have not read any Russian Classics as I was literally afraid to go there! I am glad I am taking this step with you Tony! I appreciate your guidance ;)

Jen is picking the boys up in about a half hour, so I plan on settling down with my Amazon Fire!

Lesle, I love the Russian authors. I hope you and Tony enjoy your buddy read. I will be reading this book in a couple of years when I have more time. Dostoevsky is my favourite Russian author.

Thanks Rosemarie, I feel awful being the Moderator and I have not explored the Russian Authors before, BUT Diversity is what we are about and I just had to make that giant step for me.

I hope it inspires others to step out of their comfort zone too! ;>)

Tony, I felt Chapter 3 was all over the place.

First he decides to spend his paycheck on a frivolous item at an auction, which was not worth a penny, until someone else had come just for that album and he haggled to make 3x the money. Which I did not understand the meaning behind this, other than young will be young and do as they wish, smart or not.

His meeting with Vassin, he should have learned from. Arkady's surname does not need to be explained. Vassin tells him more or less that you choose to mention it, but there is no need and he has 50 yrs to figure it out! haha!

I hope Chapter 4 is more interesting.

I did sort of warn you that chapter 3 was confusing. Chapter 4/5 are still getting the plot established - feel it starts to move forward in chapter 6.

He describes the auction event as a test and it becomes clear in chapter 5 when he talks about his 'big idea'. (In reality the big idea is not what I expected and, in a sense, disappointing. I thought he would have had a big idea based on politics, anti-authority etc but its about money. Well, it's not really about money - but about 'power and solitude'. I get it, his idea was something to hang onto when curled up in his school bed feeling rejected, riduculed and bullied. It is an "I'll be OK idea, I will rise up above them all".

"Money is the only path that brings a nonentity into 1st place".


I guess I should just go ahead and admit I have not read any Russian Classics as I was literally afraid to go there!

Well, picking a Dostoevsky for your first Russian novel is a bit like, having decided to take up diving, going up to the 10 metre platform for your first dive!

Tony wrote: Well, picking a Dostoevsky for your first Russian novel is a bit like, having decided to take up diving, going up to the 10 metre platform for your first dive! ..."

Thanks for the warning! haha!

Tony now I get it. Money is power as they say and he just got his feet wet with the auction and realized when someone wants something they will pay...resulting in him making a large profit.

I think also in Chapter 3 that we learned that Arkady looked up to Vasin and Kraft, particularly Vasin, as young Russian modern thinking role models and he wanted to impress them at the meeting - he had some interesting points but it came out all of a mess as he couldn't control and restrain himself - too headstrong.

yes Yes YES!

Chapter 4
Versilov..surrounded by scandel, confirmed by many including Kraft and Arkady has a letter sewn in his coat that could cause Versilov harm.

Chapter 5
Aarkady is explaining what his goal is 'Idea' to become a Rothschild, to have 'Isolation', and 'Power' (his desire for power).
That money is the means to get there. Making a level playing field.
He also explains his solitude, that he dislikes everyone, finding fault and deception.
'Idea=Refuge=nothing else matters'

Yes, good summary Lesle about his idea and his finding fault in everyone.

For the plot -and I got a bit confused about it so thought I would lay it out now - Arkady now has two letters at the end of Chapter 4.

The first was sewn into his coat when he first came to Petersburgh from Moscow. This is the letter that Katya is panicking about as she is saying in it that the Old Prince her father has senility and she is scared that if he finds out about it he might disinherit her. (Personally I think the Old Prince would wave it off - at least i hope he would - because, as you know, I really like him. But I guess in the wrong hands she could be submitted to blackmail or something).

The second letter is the one Kraft gave him - it could work against Versilov in the court case he has with the young prince (Sergei) though it is said not decisively. What is Arkady to do with this letter? Keep it secret or give it to Versilov? If he gives it to Versilov will Versilov destroy it or be honorable - and that will affect the way Arkady feels about his father. What to do!

I was thinking Tony that I got the two letters mixed in their placement.

I also thought the Versilov letter has much more 'Power' for him.

Lesle wrote: "I was thinking Tony that I got the two letters mixed in their placement.

This was my confusion too! I had to go back and read the start of Chapter 4 to see that the letter Kraft gave him was related to the court case.

I also thought the Versilov letter has much more 'Power' for him."

I think both letters have a lot of power for him, but how to use them?

I think both letters have a lot of power for him, but how to use them?

Have to read to see :)

Chapter 6
He goes to Versilov's home only to find his Mother, Sister and Aunt. He tries to be on his best behavior.
Versilov won his case and came into the flat excited and with a loan from his case.
Versilov knows of Arkady's 'Idea'! Arkady speaks of his remembrances from childhood and of his mother and it shocks her as he was young. He also recalls the Fables he could recite to Versilov. Versilov states what a charming and thoughtful boy and how he is not now.
Tatyana (Aunt) takes him to a boarding school where he is treated as a nobody, low origin (even though he tries to brag that Versilov was his father, but his last name was not). He was Touchard's personal slave (in a way) and beat him on a regular basis.
Arkady was angry with Versilov for much of his horrible life as a child. Giving him to Makar to be raised instead of a man with skills.
The chapter gives a great deal of why Arkady is the way he is.

Chapter 7
Arkady thought he was putting himself out there to have it given back as shameful and ungrateful, but he felt better for it, free.
Versilov visits Arkady in his room, that there should not be revenge and vengeance on Arkady's part. Mother hopes they are reconciling, but Versilov realizes that Arkady only wants revenge for his upbringing and his illegitimacy.
Versilov had offered a great sum of money and freedom to Makar to raise Arkady. He respected Makar for the type of character he had.
Arkady admits he does not like Versilov. Has contempt for him, he tells him the letter was received by Marie and implies other letters are out there still. Versilov leaves him, stating he is not a good fellow after all and if he lived three lives he would not be happy.
Arkady wanted Versilov to be a father in the true sense of the word and be part of his life. not.

Tony, why do they call each other by their full names, given and sur. This has always stumped me, makes you think they are not family or have feelings towards one another, like they are a stranger? or is this part of Dostoesvsky's plan?

He was Touchard's personal slave (in a way) and beat him on a regular basis.

This was because Versilov would not pay Touchard the money he asked for to educate him as a noble. I don't understand yet why Versilov did not pay, but he is a complex character that we haven't seen properly yet, just through Arkady's eyes.

Also why is Auntie (Tatiana) more irritable with Arkady than anyone else? - she constantly attacks Arkady and defends Versilov.

Versilov says he and Sofia have a 'marriage' of speechlessness. Does that mean he feels responsibility to her but not deep love?

Looks like I'm asking all the questions today!

At the end of chapter 7 Arkady says it's not the family name he needs but 'all my life I've needed Versilov himself, the whole man, the father'. I think this is at the heart of Arkady, a childhood without any love and affection.

Tony, why do they call each other by their full names, given and sur. This has always stumped me, makes you think they are not family or have feelings towards one another, like they are a stranger? or is this part of Dostoesvsky's plan?

This is a great point Lesle. I hadn't really thought about it, but I do see he is showing us a dysfunctional family with a 'speechless unwedded marriage', legitimate children who do not live there but illegitimate children who do and relationships that are uncertain and so fall back into formal speech. Versilov almost seems too shy or feels he does not have the right to call his son Arkasha, and Arkady does not know where he stands with Versilov and so drops into speaking formally.

Tatyana, I thought she was not really an Aunt. So maybe a past lover of Versilov, upset as he is Versilov's child with another? Just an idea that had crossed my mind.

Does that mean he feels responsibility to her but not deep love?
I think he does love her in his own way, why would he stay with her when she is still married to another?

I think Arkady is a typical questioning teenager, feels abandoned and not wanted, just different circumstances of upbringing. I think Versilov thinks he has done well by Arkady in his early years, with Makar and boarding school.

Tatyana, I thought she was not really an Aunt. So maybe a past lover of Versilov, upset as he is Versilov's child with another? Just an idea that had crossed my mind.

You may be right Lesle. For whatever reason she seems very committed to Versilov. She has also had more contact with Arkady as a youngster than anyone else, so she may recognise that he can be blunt and headstrong and could easily cause chaos in the family.

Tatyana surely does not trust Arkady in any shape or form does she?

Chapter 8

Out of no where it seems, Arkady wants to step up and protect his fathers honor, because a slap in the face more than a year ago by Sokolsky, Efim question his right to challenge.

Arkady decides to visit Vassin. While waiting Stebelkov (Vassin's stepfather) arrives, they speak and Arkady is irrated with him, Stebelkov gives him winks while having odd conversations.

The topic of Versilov and a baby comes up out of no where and and Arkady is astonished. Along with another, Olya, given money by Versilov.

He goes to Tatyana and overhears Katerina and her talking and finds out Kraft has taken his own life. He announces himself by stating to both that "It's a lie"

Chapter 9
He returms home to gather his belongs and runs into a lady searching for Versilov's home. He takes her there and along the way just happens to mention that he is one of many of Versilov's illegitimate children!

Arkady gives Versilov the letter stating it came from Kraft, Versilov was not effected by the news.

He returns to Vassin and tells him of Stebelkov's muddlings and about the baby, which turned out to be Prince Sokolsky and Lidya child not Versilov. Lidya had passed 2 weeks after childbirth. The Prince learned of the child and all involved kept it on the hush. Arkady thought the Prince to be a villain in the way he took advantage of the invalid Lidya. Vassin did not agree, he felt that the Prince did not have common sense or strength of character.

During the night Vassin and him were awakened and Olya had taken her own life. Arkady blames Stebelkov for causing Olya to take her life.

Chapter 10
Arkady finally fell asleep on the sofa and awoke to find his mother and Olya's mother sitting beside each other holding hands comforting each other. Olya seemed to have lost her mind and thought she had caused her mother such anguish.
Vassin told Arkady about Versilov's telling of the letter he acquired and said he had gone to the judge and refused the settlement because of the letter and giving the money back to the Prince. This should show what kind of person Versilov really is, but still he ponders the why's, but at last he cannot keep his mouth shut!

He decides to to see the Old Prince and both are over joyed in seeing each other and embrace. Both agree that Versilov is a hero of sorts.

Enters the Old Prince's son the one from the challenge. The young Prince announces he had made a mistake by issuing the duel and how Versilov had accepted.

Ugh, gotta go Brayden's baseball game!

Good update Lesle. Looks like you are almost at the end of Part One. I'm going to start with Part 2 now.

Arkady really ends Part 1 on a high. In the final scene he and his sister Lisa really bond and declare their love for each other, and she tells him that his mother really loves him too even if they both think he is an 'odd duck'.

Arkady, as you say, is also overjoyed with Versilov and has greatly changed his opinion of him. He started seeing him as a womaniser, a blackguard, but now he has seen that Versilov's motives of giving Olya (and others like her) money was from a genuine desire to help them; that Versilov was being noble in his support of Lydia (and not the one who took advantage of her) and he has also seen him do the noble thing and release the letter that affects the inheritance case with the young prince (which he and the old prince are overjoyed at).

In fact, everyone, except for Tatiana, seems to be reacting positively to Arkady. The old prince loves him and others seem to like him as well.

Part 1 does end, though, with Arkady reflecting that his words to Olya (that’s the lady he meets and takes to Versilov) that Verilov was wicked and had many illegitimate children may have contributed to her suicide. The first bit of reflection from Arkady! Don't always go blurting out what you are thinking. Maybe he is beginning to learn! (I think we could also add that he did nothing to change Kraft's mood before he left him just before Kraft's suicide saying something like 'why foist yourself on people who don't want you? Isn't it better to break with it all?).

Just to clarify for you - the Old Prince and the Young Prince are not related (that's emphasised in the list of characters above). I don't know if Dostoevsky gave them the same name for a reason but I don't think it's central to the plot.

Just started Part 2 and there is an immediate change. "I am now beginning the history of my shame and disgrace" so looks like things are going bad for Arkady now. Hopefully, it ends well. Arkady is writing all this one year after the events, so I'm hoping we then see his resurrection.

Hope you and Brayden enjoyed the baseball. Sounds like he is really getting into it!

Just to clarify for you - the Old Prince and the Young Prince are not related
Sad I even made a copy over to word to try and keep track of everyone and still thought they were family! Thanks for the reminder!

I do not know still about Arkady he seemed happy but than with the letter he said he would have tossed it and forgotten it, not done what Versilov did. Makes me still cautious, like he has a wicked side.

Brayden is 8 and first year playing coach pitch baseball. Not sure what happened today, his whole stance was off when he was up to bat!
He did play well as catcher though.

He has 3 more games this week. He is gonna be tired by Saturday!

Do not think I will be able to read any this evening. The movie American Sniper: The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History about Chris Kyle is on, Sorry.

I do not know still about Arkady he seemed happy but than with the letter he said he would have tossed it and forgotten it, not done what Versilov did. Makes me still cautious, like he has a wicked side.

Yes, I see he said that it would be normal to toss the later and, in Versilov's shoes, he might have done that, but he is delighted that Versilov didn't do that and handed the letter over. "What a man! Who else would have done that?"

So. I'm feeling good about Arkady, but Part 2 might prove me wrong!

Good Morning Tony! It is 7:22 am here and I am thinking it really should be Good Afternoon! Like it is noon there!

I am going to read this morning before the Grandsons get here around 11. This is my last day of vacation :( going back to work tomorrow! I made it a short week on purpose. Afraid after 2 weeks off I would have a hard time getting back into it. Thank goodness no Special Election in August this year. A first for us in 4 years!!

I hope I am wrong about Arkady! I really do not want to see a bad side. Happy Reading Tony!