Terminalcoffee discussion

This whole "under God" phrase in the pledge of allegiance issue seems to recur every couple of years and recently made some local news.

What do you think? Does the phrase "under God" as in "one nation under God" belong in the pledge? Wikipedia has a decent outline of how the phrase was added.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_o...

My gut reaction is "no" but we've got better things to do than worry too much about removing a prepositional phrase from a recitation that well, hardly anyone recites outside of elementary school and county board meetings or whatever. What do you think?

As much as this would go against my better instincts, the whole "one nation under God" thing really doesn't bother me. I see the phrase as a catch-all for those who see America as a nation under God, whoever that God may be.

Like you, I think this is much ado about nothing.

Do any other democratic nations have their citizens do a "pledge of allegiance"?

Do kids still say the pledge of allegiance?

I don't see anything wrong with having some allegiance to one's own country. And I agree, "under God" could mean a variety of deities, not just the white bearded man on the cloud, right?

As far as I know, kids no longer say the pledge at public schools. At least in Seattle they don't! For me, it was a great tool for learning which was my right arm, ha. As a matter of fact, for a very long time I'd kinesthetically do the pledge in my head to isolate my right side!

I don't really mind the under God thing because as many have previously stated, there's a ton of other battles to get riled up about. And as Sally says, the god part just incorporates so many spiritual notions, not the white bearded man.

But I can see how it bothers some people in this day and age of fundamentalist Christians trying to turn this nation into one of their God with a capital G. THAT I have a problem with.

Lori wrote: "For me, it was a great tool for learning which was my right arm, ha...."

Hey Lori, if the cops asked you to recite the alphabet in a field sobriety test, would you sing it? Apparently many do. Ho ho ho!

They recite the pledge every morning at my husband's public high school. (New Jersey, in case you're curious.)

Doni - I probably would, at least in my head. But now I do know that LMNOP are separate letters and not just a jumble of elememopee.

I STILL do the rhyme, 30 days hath September to figure out the length of months.... Oh dear.

We still had to say it, Lori.

I don't think Seattle accurately reflects the rest of the country...

Yeah, Matt, Seattle is disgustingly PC. Did you have to pledge past elementary school?

Lori: I never figured out that rhyme. I just figure the months I know, and then count forward or back from there.

the kids around here have a pledge to everything - 4-H, FFA, Scouts, School * everthing!

Gotta stand for something or fall of anything!

The kids say the pledge in the schools here in Olympia. Personally, I don't think "under God" belongs in the pledge.
I agree with this paragraph from Wikipedia:

Other objections have been raised since the addition of the phrase "under God" to the Pledge in 1954. Many critics contend that a government requiring or promoting this phrase violates protections against establishment of religion guaranteed in the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.

However, as it is not compulsory to say the pledge, I'm okay about leaving it as it is.

Jax - do they say it everyday?

Yep, every day, Lori. In the elementary schools, they have a kid lead everyone in the pledge over the loudspeakers, piped into every classroom.

Seriously?

Huh. Well I just checked with Jake, and he doesn't even know it!

Seriously.

I'm really not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, I hate so much about our govt, and yet this is still a great country and I do believe in allegiance to it, and making it better.

Yet his schools do community outreach stuff so there is that.

Stating the obvious here, but one can easily feel allegiance to their country without daily rote recitations.

Agreed, Doni. I'm just glad the salute was changed from the Bellamy salute to the hand over the heart.

Bellamy salute:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ple...

!!!!!
How did you get inside my head like that??

Doni wrote: "Stating the obvious here, but one can easily feel allegiance to their country without daily rote recitations. "

Absolutely!!!!!

Nope, I'm a huge believer in separation between church and state.

look on coins

In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash?

"less awkward" is a delicate balance.

people rarely take oaths or pledges seriously anyway. it could say something about the Mayor Of Who-Ville and no one would bat an eye one way or another in most cases

Let's all repeat the Non-Conformist's Oath!

I can't conform to that request Jackie.

i pledge not to conform

I don't wanna.

It appears that we are starting to conform to the non conformity, can anyone confirm that?

I refuse, Jim.

i just took an oath not to pledge to anything

*trips circuit breaker*

is that a conference with a congregation? i am confuddled

Can you confirm your confuddleness to either the confirmation, the conference or the congregation?

this conversation is not conducive for concentration "con mi trabajo"

chili con carne

Larry wrote: "chili con carne"

with cheese

via con dios nacho

And, the thread has arrived at cheese.

It was Jim's fault.

I'll take the blame :-D.

It seemed better with chili than the other alternative.

we should start a thread called "seven degrees to cheese" where we take anything and make seven steps to cheese

that's what every thread already is! :P

Don't thank me, KD. Thank Mr. Steve Martin. :)

That wild and crazy guy.

I believe that putting God in the pledge has blessed our country. Until recently our country as a whole projected a faith based society.