SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Here is our spoiler thread for A Closed and Common Orbit. What did everyone think?

Ohh. I loved it. I wasn't a big fan of basically all the Sidra sections. But I L. O. V. E. D. the Pepper sections.

The Jane23/Jane/Pepper sections gave me so much feels. So much. And I just wanted to hug and hug her.

I wished for more of Blue and Pepper/Blue's relationship - I felt everything related to Blue was pushed to the side and waved at.

Also loved it - I loved seeing peppers progression, as well as seeing an AI 'grow up' as a person, and how being embodied in a humanoid body allows completely different ways of interacting with, understanding, and being seen by organic sapients. There is just so MUCH there in regards to AIs and personhood.

And so love that Pepper gets to raise someone much like the person who raised her. I love how these 'misfits' built a family.

Rachel wrote: "Also loved it - I loved seeing peppers progression, as well as seeing an AI 'grow up' as a person, and how being embodied in a humanoid body allows completely different ways of interacting with, un..."

YEs! :-D

I liked how Jane's and Sidra's stories wound together in a 'common orbit'. I also really liked learning more about Aeluons, although I wish we'd gotten even more of Tak. The ending was pretty emotional tbh.

I'm very excited for Record of a Spaceborn Few, although I think the pub date just changed from January to June?

I also loved this book. The character development was superb!

I really enjoyed this one

Looks like I'm the odd one out so far. I was pretty disappointed by it. I felt that it didn't capitalize on the tremendous promise of the first. The pacing was a real problem for me. Seemed to go in spurts where it was fast moving and exciting before slowing way down to a crawl. Back and forth. It never felt like it got its legs under it for me.

Chambers writes really interesting characters, though, so it redeemed itself in some ways for me.

I really just wanted another Firefly-esque adventure. Which leads me back to the book search.

I really enjoyed this book. I raced through it because I couldn't wait to find out what would happen next.

I liked it and agree with what's been said, with a little less enthusiasm. I was sort of bored with most of Sidra's chapters. I enjoyed the portrayal of the AIs in the abstract but when the book tries to get into the details, it opts for magic technobabble about "pathways" instead of any sort of understanding of computing or AI, which annoys me.

I liked Jane's chapters and the ending enough to make up for it.

Like J.w., I think I might have preferred a continuation of The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet.

Anna wrote: "I'm very excited for Record of a Spaceborn Few, although I think the pub date just changed from January to June?"

Ooh, I hadn't seen that the title was announced.

I seem to be saying the word "gross" a lot more now...

Michelle wrote: "I seem to be saying the word "gross" a lot more now..."

I'm trying to adopt "stars," ....

I loved it. I loved watching both 'Jane' and Sidra get stronger and figure out how to come into their own. I would have liked some more fleshing out of Blue and of other ideas & characters, and if there had been more of that, maybe the chapters wouldn't have flickered by so fast that I kept having to work to reorient myself (I don't watch tv or movies, so I'm not used to rapid scene changes and event sequences). But most members of the general public, of casual readers, probably appreciate the tight focus and generally fast pace.

Here's my review:

I just love the idea that most people, of most species, try to get along, try to be good and helpful, but aren't necessarily heroic, but are still interesting. Watching Jane and Lovelace find their places in the Galaxy was an engaging, heartwarming, *and* fascinating experience.

I also love the bits of philosophy. For example, why do so many people like to read mysteries and thrillers, 'finding bad things happening to people to be entertaining?' Consider (view spoiler)[the fear of death, and the comfort to be found in the idea that the bad guys who kill will be punished. (hide spoiler)] (Of course Chambers says it better.) And why do some people think their culture or race is 'superior?' Consider (view spoiler)[our desire to be able to control our fates, and our sense that if we have that control, we must be successful, and anyone else must be less competent and just plain 'lesser.' (hide spoiler)] (I may not be summing Chambers exactly on that; read the book for yourself.)

Chambers' writing style is also effective. Neither the humor nor tension are forced, but arise naturally. She's mastered the craft of making the text flow so easily & beautifully that this reader didn't even consciously realize the joy of reading along until, oh, gosh, the book is over; I must buy a copy so I can reread it at my leisure.

I'm recommending this one to even more of my friends and family than I did the first.

First, I am thrilled that I finally had my library hold become available so I could actually read along in the correct month! It has been a while.

I was pleasantly surprised by this book. I wasn't a big fan of The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet. But, I was pulled into A Closed and Common Orbit rather quickly.

I did find the Jane segments more interesting and engaging than Sidra sections. However, I liked how the two stories ran in parallel, yet there were that were in contrast: human with AI nurturer vs AI with human nurturer and innocent, yet mature human child vs "adult" AI with childlike innocence.

I was disappointed that this was the winner of the sequel poll, but now I am glad. I really enjoyed it.

The robot control of the children working in the factory, and the way the children were treated, was chilling.

aPriL does feral sometimes wrote: "The robot control of the children working in the factory, and the way the children were treated, was chilling."

Agreed. But they weren't "children" per the Enhanced. They were slaves.

They definitely weren't 'people' ... because they were clones....

Cheryl wrote: "...would have liked some more fleshing out of Blue.."

I agree, though I can see the focus was tightly pulled onto Sidra and Pepper. Maybe in a later book in the series?

It does seem like the series will have very disparate themes and styles. Well, based on the two we've seen, anyway!

I finished this yesterday... I'm giving it 3.5 stars, rounded down to 3. I believe I gave 'LWTASAP' a solid 4 stars.

I miss the scope of the first book, following different people and aliens throughout various situations. While we got some of that here, I just couldn't get quite as into the more focused and contained story. Perhaps because, like others, I started to find the Sidra sections a bit draggy...

It was interesting, though. At first I liked the Sidra sections better, but I eventually shifted my position and sometimes found the Sidra sections to be a distraction from what I felt was the more interesting/poignant story.

By the end I became very invested in the story of recovering Owl - though I wish we'd seen a bit more of Owl once she was rescued because I think it would've been interesting to get some of her adjustment from her perspective.

I also agree that I'd like to see more Blue, though I understand why it focused more on Pepper and Sidra because of the similarities in their stories - but that's exactly why I think the ending would've benefited from seeing some of Owl's adjustment.

Anyway -

I think my biggest issue, really, is that since it was such a contained story I feel like it could've gone a bit deeper into the philosophy and psychology of the characters than it did. It touched on some great ideas - like how all cultures are aggressive and destructive, but, much like the first book, it would introduce some philosophical ideas and then sort of just let them drop off as the story moved on.

I forgave the first book a bit more for this trend because there was a lot going on and a lot of characters, and because one of the points, I felt, in that first book was that there isn't any right answers.

But this one often felt like it had the same "gloss over" problem with the concepts it would raise, but I found it less forgivable precisely because we were only following the two characters, so it should've had the ability to go a bit deeper into the concepts it was exploring.

Like David said - it opted for technobabble too often in place of actual exploration. I mean, I just didn't feel like it really delved into the concepts of seldom and identity nearly as much as it could've considering the story/ies it was telling.

Anyway -

I don't really find the two books that dissimilar. Both are about the characters and the cultures and the philosophy more than the plot - though the first does end up having more happen with bigger overarching consequences, ultimately.

Huh. I wonder why you found that the Sidra sections dragged, if not because there was too much philosophy and psychology. I had almost the opposite feelings myself, so I'm sincerely confused.

Jane's story was more poignant, in some ways, of course, but it also covered ground that resembles ground covered by so many other orphan stories over centuries of novels. Sidra's was, imo, more interesting because it was more novel. And I, personally, thought there was plenty of philosophy and psychology... most of it was subtle and left to the reader to interpret and work out for him/her-self, but some of it was totally in our face, too.

I agree with those who liked the Jane plot better. My big problem with the Sidra plot was that I just couldn't buy that an AI would be so neurotic. Then all is well after she gets a hug. Owl's personality made much more sense to me.

That's fair enough!

I also liked the Jane parts better, although I liked the Sidra parts more as the story progressed. I ended up really loving this. Not as much as the first, but it was really good.

Chris wrote: "I agree with those who liked the Jane plot better. My big problem with the Sidra plot was that I just couldn't buy that an AI would be so neurotic. Then all is well after she gets a hug. Owl's pers..."

I think that's definitely part of it. Sidra just didn't read like a realistic portrayal of AI to me. Or, rather, I guess she just seemed too human with AI trappings - it's kind of read like a standard YA coming-of-age/figuring-out-who-you-are thing and I guess I just figured Sidra would be a little more a-typical in her thought processes and that didn't come across, for me.

ETA: one of the things I really liked about the first book was that aliens and alien cultures were alien. In this one I just felt everyone seemed a bit too human with 'other' trappings, including Tak.

Chris wrote: "I agree with those who liked the Jane plot better. My big problem with the Sidra plot was that I just couldn't buy that an AI would be so neurotic. Then all is well after she gets a hug. Owl's pers..."

I think she was so neurotic because of the first few moments of her reboot. She was being judged by the crew for not being Lovely. It established that pathway for thinking. Also, the hug didn't make her nearly as happy as having ancillary pets.

Cheryl wrote: "Here's my review:

I just love the idea that most people, of most species, try to get along, try to be good and helpful, but aren't necessarily heroic, but are still interesting. Watching Jane and ..."

I also really appreciate Chambers' writing style. I love how she matches the narration of the story to the character e.g. using only the limited vocabulary Pepper had as a child. It really pulled me into the story and added humor and life to the characters. I especially appreciate Jane's use of the word "gross" and when she becomes infatuated with swearing as a teen.

colleen the convivial curmudgeon wrote: "I think that's definitely part of it. Sidra just didn't read like a realistic portrayal of AI to me. Or, rather, I guess she just seemed too human with AI trappings - it's kind of read like a standard YA coming-of-age/figuring-out-who-you-are thing and I guess I just figured Sidra would be a little more a-typical in her thought processes and that didn't come across, for me.

ETA: one of the things I really liked about the first book was that aliens and alien cultures were alien. In this one I just felt everyone seemed a bit too human with 'other' trappings, including Tak.



I can see this. Sidra never came across to me as much more than an angsty teenager who tossed tantrums when people didn't understaaaannnnndddd her needs.

And Chambers had a great chance to deal with the idea of creating something that is sentient and has "feelings" but still treated like inanimate objects and/or pets - Sold or thrown away when ready to move on - but she glossed over that, too.

OK, I am a little behind right now, so just finished yesterday. I was overall impressed, and gave it 4 stars. Again like 'LWTASAP', this is a warm and human story of relationships and interactions where the science takes a bit of a back seat.

It is also interesting to see how much there really is IN this book. From these discussion thread comments, everyone seems to have taken something slightly different from this book. For me, what was most compelling was Chambers use of AI characters to explore some of our human issues: body-mind dissassociation and concepts of self and purpose. Good stuff and not too heavy-handed or preachy like many other authors get.

Since I'll be busy moving into a new flat tomorrow (a plan that crystallized after we'd set August 20th as a start date for this BR - what can you do) I'm putting an initial post up today.

I can't wait to dive into this book and see what kind of reactions and discussions it will spark!

Looking forward to it!

I started over the weekend and suddenly I was 1/3 of the way through! I'm finding it very enjoyable to be back in this universe.

Not sure if I should use spoiler tags as this is a Buddy read, or be more open, since we're in a Spoiler thread. I'm finding the "present" timeline story poignant, especially at the start, and am interested to see how things develop. The "past" timeline story is very interesting, shedding light on a different aspect of the universe.

I would love it if we could use spoiler tags, buddy read style. Does that work for everyone?

Fine with me, I'm app-independent.

That's fine with me as well.

Thanks!

I am in but I won’t get the book till Sunday.

Fine with me on the spoiler tags, too. Thanks for asking about them, Meredith! I knew I had forgotten something. in my initial post for this BR.

Ch. 1 (view spoiler)[i really liked this beginning and how it went about describing this quite drastic change for Lovelace while filling us in on some details about these body kits. That panic attack was too real.
I also loved Pepper saying "The galaxy is trouble. You're not". It was such a genuine way of reassuring Lovelace. I think I'll need to steal that and integrate it into my daily vocabulary.
And that final bit of information about how Pepper was raised? Excellent. (hide spoiler)]

Ch. 2 (view spoiler)[I was intrigued by Pepper in Book 1 and am glad we're getting to know more about her now. But I also assume that this past storyline is gonna be a lot, what with cloning, forced child labor, and the question if "Where do the older girls go?" (hide spoiler)]

I can't wait to dive back in!

Read chapter 1 last night, so excited to get back into this world!

Chapter 2 (view spoiler)[I really appreciated the descriptions of those little bits of joy in Pepper's childhood, the things that were good. Such a simple but heartbreaking bit of character development. (hide spoiler)]

So far this is grabbing me just as quickly as Small Angry Planet did which is fantastic.

Agreed, Amanda. I also liked (still Ch. 2) (view spoiler)[the description of her mornings and how close she felt to Jane 64 during that time. That really touched me.
Despite the fact that I assume that there's also manipulation by the Mothers going on with theye pairs and trios and how they're put together.
It was also neat to get to see a glimpse at the differences between the girls.
At the same time, the description of the different age groups was unsettling. (hide spoiler)]

I know I’ve gone at length elsewhere about the trouble I had with aspects of The Way of Kings, but I mention it here only to say that reading this book is the perfect antidote to those annoyances. After reading the first couple of chapters, I am already feeling so at ease with Becky Chambers’ graceful, simple approach, the directness and simplicity of her prose, and the unforced manner in which she allows us into her characters’ heads and hearts. She lets her scenes and moments breathe and speak for themselves, even when they involve troubling and dark moments. And that kind of restraint is wonderful to behold, even in the early going. Very glad to be reading this!

I've already had a moment or two where I stopped to just admire the prose and let it resonate. That....did not happen with WoK.
And I didn't think of it that way, but you hit the nail on the head when you said that she let's her scenes breathe.

My edition doesn’t have chapter numbers, so I hope I’m correct in my count via the table of contents...

Anyway, this moment in chapter 9 made me laugh:
(view spoiler)[‘Hi,’ Sidra said, and simultaneously accessed the file named make yourself comfortable.
1.    remove jacket
2.    remove shoes
3.    find a place to sit
4.    (optional) get a snack or beverage (hide spoiler)]

I think I will probably always think of that whenever I come home from now on.

I also thought the events of the previous chapter (view spoiler)[when Jane 23 disobeyed the rules and escaped (hide spoiler)]were very well done.

Not far in, but I'm glad to be back in the easy prose of Becky Chambers. There's something informal about it, but that's not to say it loses any depth of character or concept.

Yeah, not even gonna guess at chapter numbers at this point, but the (view spoiler)[escape sequence was really intense and reminded me why I don't play stealth games. (hide spoiler)]

Overall, at about 1/3 of the way through (view spoiler)[one thing I'm really enjoying is the way she describes Sidra's difficulties in acclimating to a new environment. It manages to be so human and relatable while still making sense in the context of what she's used to vs. what she's experiencing now.

Also, the imagery of how she experiences taste is a lot of fun. (hide spoiler)]

Anthony wrote: "...Anyway, this moment in chapter 9 made me laugh:..."

But... (view spoiler)[#4 doesn't seem optional! (hide spoiler)].

The prose and it's flow are indeed relaxing. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to 'endure' the long streams of uninterrupted conversations and their energetic emotional outbursts (amiable and pleasantly casual as they were, also tiring to concentrate on in the long run), but so far the tone seems far less 'perky' from Angry Planet, much more mellow and controlled. While the general compassion, the captivating world building and cultural/societal/existential topics have stayed the same. I like. (Possibly even more than I did the first one).

(view spoiler)[*Loved* the escape scene, and Jane's discovery of the 'not-ceiling' was truly evocative. (hide spoiler)]

Dang. Hard to mark progress with audio that doesn't give chapter brakes. About 30% in: (view spoiler)[ this 'picnic feed' exchange had me genuine lolling. (hide spoiler)]

Popping in a day late! Big big love to Mareike for remembering I wanted in on the BR for this one, and reminded me. Got so caught up in uni and my new job that I forgot completely.

Chambers writing has hooked me instantly again. It feels so emotive and real, and so in depth. I so loved how A Long Way was more about the interpersonal relationships and daily lives of the crew - slice of life is always my favourite part of genre fiction, and Chambers did it so well there. I hope it continues with this one!

Only have enough time right now for ch 1.
(view spoiler)[ Instantly getting major trans/non-binary vibes from Lovelace.
Lovelace had been in a body for twenty-eight minutes, and it still felt every bit as wrong as it had the second she woke up inside it.
Literally the first line of the text, and I'm recognising me in that. The way Lovelace describes how limited, overwhelmed, and wrong her new body kit feels to her, feels acutely similar to feelings of gender dysphoria. I'm already hooked and ready to snag Lovelace as a trans icon, thanks.

Some hopes for the rest of this book: some more gay, please. Loved loved loved the relationships of A Long Way, and I Want More.

(hide spoiler)]

And what's fantastic, Rose, is that even without that direct experience, I can feel that. The details in how Chambers describes the wrongness immediately let me put myself in the character's shoes.

Rose wrote: "Popping in a day late! Big big love to Mareike for remembering I wanted in on the BR for this one, and reminded me. Got so caught up in uni and my new job that I forgot completely.

Chambers writin..."

:-* So glad you're here and that the first chapter resonated so deeply with you! Thank you for sharing that!

I loved the relationships between the characters in the first book and especially the explorations of found families (and watching Rosemary fall for Sissix), so I'm definitely also hoping for more of those themes in this book.

Ch. 4 and 5 (I'm at 11% now) (view spoiler)[The Jane 23 chapter gave me the heebie jeebies. Especially the way in which these girls are deprived of bodily autonomy. The exercise scene worked really well to drive that home.
I also really like how Chambers manages to defamiliarize mundane things like coming into someone's home. And the ways in which Pepper and Blue help Sidra to explore the rooms and feel more comfortable without questioning her needs or making comments was heartwarming. (hide spoiler)]

Mareike wrote:
:-* So glad you're here and that the first chapter resonated so deeply with you! Thank you for sharing that!
♡ That first chapter was so good. Short and sweet, but so so so impactful. Laf is reading A Long Way right now, so hopefully he'll be along soon to join us here for this one.

Chapter 2
(view spoiler)[
My heart is breaking for Jane 23. Pepper's story was so briefly and tantalisingly touched on in the previous book, and I was hungry for more. The description of the "batches" of girls was eerie and devastating. It's going to be interesting reading through and growing with Pepper's realisations. (hide spoiler)]

Chapter 3
(view spoiler)[
God this chapter was cool as hell. Watching Lovelace (Sidra?) grow and learn, going with her as she became overwhelmed, and being with her as she developed techniques to cope in real time was so fascinating. Chambers r e a l l y captured the sensation of social anxiety in there lmao.
The look at this planet was so different to how Rosemary experienced it in A Long Way. Rosemary was also experiencing it for the first time, but she had prior social experience of being on planets and around bustling groups of people. Sidra is *completely* unfamiliar with it. Absolutely everything is brand new and strange, and she has no prior experience to draw on about anything. Rosemary's introduction to the planet was through the eyes of someone with context clues for everything, and Sidra has none of that, and it's a real testament to Chambers' writing ability that she's been able to craft two entirely different first reactions to the same concept. Love it.

also can i get a hell yeah for this closing line

None of them were meant to share a world together – meant to share this world – yet here they were. Perhaps in that way, at least, she was not so different from them

if i may say, big mood.
(hide spoiler)]

Rose wrote: "Mareike wrote:
:-* So glad you're here and that the first chapter resonated so deeply with you! Thank you for sharing that!
♡ That first chapter was so good. Short and sweet, but so so so impactfu..."

Yaaay! I hope he catches up!
Ch.2 (view spoiler)[The "batches" were the worst thing about that chapter. Also the explanation that the older girls vanish and this line "...wherever junk went" are way too ominous and heartbreaking in combination. (hide spoiler)]

Agreed on chapter 3 and the closing line.