SciFi and Fantasy eBook Club discussion

I've read this book twice over the past umpteen years - the last time I think was about in the mid-00s. It's not my favorite Alternate History - I'm a little biased against WWII alt histories - but I do like it.

I'm not reading it again this time around.

What are your thoughts on the book itself, the world Dick created, the themes .... what are your thoughts on the book? Tell me all.

I just reviewed this one in September of 2013, reading it, I think, for the second time after many years.

I lowered my rating from 5 stars to 4 because I felt the beginning of the book was a bit disjointed and because...well, to quote me:

Micah wrote: "This novel is held in high regard mainly because of its alternate history aspect, and I must say that PKD managed that brilliantly and realistically. However, aside from that one SF aspect, Man in the High Castle is actually much more closely related to PKD's non-SF works. I found it had far more in common with even his earliest works like Gather Yourselves Together than it does with his paranoid idea-packed SF works. And, viewed in that light--as a non-SF work--it probably is one of his more successful works. However, viewed as a SF novel--again, aside from its obvious alternate history aspect--it's rather disappointing."

Full review here: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I read High Castle a few months ago after having read Ubik. What sticks in my mind is the sense that there were two short stories—one lengthy, and one fairly short—that were kind of stuck together with a bit of prose duct tape. It had moments I appreciated, but as a whole it just didn't gel for me. On the other hand, I quite liked Ubik. I had thought to re-read it for this group read, but when I picked it up and started on it, I just couldn't get enthusiastic about it.

(Returning to the lurkers' corner...)

I usually love Philip K. Dick but I dropped this one after 30 pages. It was not that bad, but it did feel "old": I was bothered by the clichés about Japanese & German cultures.

I read this book once before in 1999.

I'm going against the current trend developing here: I think this is one of the best science fiction novels perhaps second to only VALIS.

True is a "realistic" story of what could happen in the alternate history, but that's a strength, not a weakness. The characters fit into the world Dick created perfectly without the forced romanticism of the "hero" fighting the machinations of a despotic government. They are low people on the totem pole but one of them still manages to foil a plot--not with super human skills or training, but with being in the right (or wrong) place at the right (or wrong) time. No extended combat scenes required.

Dick also took the better path, I think, when his alternate history novel within an alternative history wasn't our history, but a completely different history. It would have been disappointing to have The Grasshopper Lies Heavy be what we know as history.

Perhaps current readers expect something different from science fiction nowadays. More action, more technology, more spectacle, something not what it was. But it gives the reader something to think about: and that makes it good science fiction.

The "clichés" about Japanese and German cultures were authentic to the 60s: the setting for the story and the time it was written.

I have to agree that his alternate history within his novel not being our history is a good thing. I'm not sure if that would have been cliché when he wrote this, but it definitely is now.

I'm about halfway through this - my first time reading it although not my first PKD.

I'm enjoying it. Yes, it's dated and yes some of the writing is a little odd (for example the dropping of articles and pronouns in some of the dialogue which I guess is mean to "japanese-ify" the English but just reminds me of Rorshach in Watchmen), but its clear that this is one of the places a lot of the alternative history cliches / tropes got started.

Michael wrote: "...the dropping of articles and pronouns in some of the dialogue which I guess is mean to "japanese-ify" the English ..."

Ha! Yeah, that actually kind of drove me crazy during this last read. It kept reminding me of Truman Capote in the ending of this clip from the '70s detective movie spoof Murder by Death:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znS3g...

I am about halfway through this book also. I haven't read a lot of alternate history books. I am finding that the plot is just not that interesting to me. It may be that I don't understand some of the historical and cultural reasons for things that happen. For example, I didn't understand what the big deal is about the Japanese wanting to collect American memorabilia or copy American culture such as Jazz. I thought Japanese were very proud of their own culture and couldn't picture them wanting to copy Americans at all. Just the reverse. It didn't make sense. The whole concept that they were trying was sort of interesting. The main character was inwardly mocking them.

Still, the story the way it is being told is not holding my interest.

Joanne wrote: " I thought Japanese were very proud of their own culture and couldn't picture them wanting to copy Americans at all..."

I don't know how true it is, but actually one stereotype about Japan has always been that it is a copying culture, absorbing and assimilating elements from abroad and reinterpreting them in their own way. So actually this element of the story actually plays into that stereotype.

Or...you could see it as a "spoils of the victor" kind of thing.

There's really no WWII in it, as it's set post-WWII and the war is just a historical fact.

One of the curious features of the novel is the characters use of the I Ching. I also heard (and mostly disbelieve) is that Dick wrote the whole book by asking questions to the oracle, then interrupting the answer into the direction of the story.

I've only heard he used the I Ching in making some plot decisions, not that he wrote the WHOLE book from its advice.

After reading the novel again and noting the I Ching's influence, on a lark I found an online I Ching program and asked several questions about a story I had in development. I was surprised at how the answers played right into the story (not that I believe in the powers of the oracle), so I incorporated its answers into my plot as well. Kind of a PKD tribute.

I finally got to this and am glad I did, I really enjoyed it. I dont usually care for alternative history but this played out well for me. Some odd cliches, and a little dated, but I attributed that to being written in the 60s.