Stephen King Fans discussion

You can still participate in the Book I discussion but go ahead with Book II now. Please don't discuss Chapter 55 or beyond unless it's relevant to the current discussion. Thank you.

Hey I have a question regarding an edition mistake. I am reading the complete and uncut paperback edition (I think it came out in 2011) and I noticed that in Book 2, when Mother Abagail is mentioned, it keeps changing to Mother Abigail with an "i", and then going back and forth with the spelling with an "a". So do you guys know what the right spelling is? Is there the same mistake in the hardcover edition?

Madeleine wrote: "Hey I have a question regarding an edition mistake. I am reading the complete and uncut paperback edition (I think it came out in 2011) and I noticed that in Book 2, when Mother Abagail is mentione..."

I'm not sure. That's the version I have too, and it's been about two years since I've read it. I don't remember ever catching a misspelling, it's possible I guess. LOL...you've got me curious now, I just pulled out my copy to look. Which page is it on? You have this edition, correct?

That is the edition I have too for reference. But I am actually reading on my Kindle. On the Kindle I am just reading about her now and so far it has always been Abagail with the a. Tell me what pages in your book you found Abigail.

Karen B. wrote: "That is the edition I have too for reference. But I am actually reading on my Kindle. On the Kindle I am just reading about her now and so far it has always been Abagail with the a. Tell me what pa..."

I've noticed typos/mistakes in ebooks that do NOT appear in the actual books. I wonder if this is an example.

The only mistakes I've found is that when you have immersion reading ... listening while reading the Kindle -- sometimes words that are said are not the ones in the text. But so far no Abigail.

I never noticed any changes in the name but it is possible. I can't check my uncut copy but I will check the original copy. What chapter were you in when this happened ?

Well I read the part that was about Mother Abagail and it was always spelled with an A but then I got to the part where she gets the visitors and it's spelled with an I (in the Kindle edition)

So what do you think about the new characters who are introduced in Book II? I had forgotten that Mother Abagail said Nick was to be the leader. I found I had less respect for Glen this go round. I had seen him as wise and very smart before. I still see that but I also see that he is a bit of a blowhard.

The first time you read it you were younger then you are now you went through less in you life so you were more less critical of Glen. This is one of the reasons I like re-reading books at different times as the more knowledge you obtain the more you look at characters differently in the stories you read. Like you when I first met Glen he seemed wise then the next time I met his he did seem a bit of a blow hard, then an opinionated blankety blank. Now I look at him like a man desperate to be needed, the fact that he is educated make his language and arguments seem more then what they really are. This is just the view of an old man who has probably read to many books LOL.

mrbooks, In the last two years I have found that I very much enjoy
re-reading books.

Do you see the characters in a different light from the first time you read the book?

mrbooks wrote: "Do you see the characters in a different light from the first time you read the book?"

I know I do! Depending on what stage of life I am in personally affects how I feel about characters. Same thing with situations in books. Plus, there's always something you flat out missed, or seemed unimportant last time you read and is now significant because you've changed yourself.

Life experiences definitely change my perception about what I read. Sometimes when re-reading a book it is not as exciting as it had been but most of the time I have new insight and find greater depth in the material. Of course it depends a lot on what I am re-reading.

Glen was a little bit obnoxious but he was right about the politics and what would happen when more people came.

I have had the song "The Stand" by The Alarm stuck in my head the whole time I've been reading this but I really didn't know any of the lyrics other than the chorus "Come on down and meet your maker, come on down and make your stand." I just listened to it (probably for the first time since college) and it's all about the book! How did I not know that? Here's a link for anyone who's interested.
https://youtu.be/CjQpa9Adw98

Joanie, that is so cool. Thanks for showing it to us.

A reminder to everyone that we're discussing Part 2. What do you think of the characters so far.
Maybe someone can clarify for me ... are Leo and Joe two different boys or is Leo a name that Joe took on later? Leo wanted to go home to Mom Nadine but I don't see where she is being a "mom" to him. Then she goes off to Harold ... does she just abandon Joe?

Yes Leo and Joe are one in the same,(view spoiler)[ when Nadine found him he was wandering around a grocery store he had gone feral she took him in and protected him. I believe she is the one who called him Joe. (hide spoiler)]

So how did he get or when did he get the name Leo?

That was the name he was given at birth,

So I'm well into this now and of course, I've been worried about having appendicitis for days. :-) I have to say I love the introduction to Mother Abagail and the backstory of her growing up and her family (Though I didn't really care for King's presentation of the dark version of her concert performance.) I'm also enjoying Harold this time around, and Fran's occasional sympathy for him. This is a case of King's ability to create a real person who is not all good or all bad though Harold is on the darker side for sure. This is my third time through and as always I marvel at the richness of King's writing and his unswerving ability to face up to the most difficult scenes and give them to us in their full glory (or gory).

This time around I am really focused in on Larry for some reason. I like his gradual transformation.

Larry is OK, but Nick and Tom are my favorites.

oh of course they are my favorites too. but I meant in this reading, what is jumping out at me this time around. I also really like Stu

Stu is the all around good guy from the get go ad yes I like Stu as well.

I just found something with connections (again). I have started IT again and when we first meet ben, he is in the same town of Nebraska as Mother Abagail is.

yes Hemingford Home

Do you know which novel was written first? The Stand or IT?

Nick wrote: "So I'm well into this now and of course, I've been worried about having appendicitis for days. :-) I have to say I love the introduction to Mother Abagail and the backstory of her growing up and he..."

What about the dark nightmare version of Mother Abagail playing the guitar did you not like Nick? I thought it fit in with how the darkman would want it to go.

I like Glenn and didn't think he was a blowhard. I do find Tom Cullen's catch phrase M-O-O-N that spells whatever to be M-O-O-N that spells annoying. It was in there way too often for my liking.

James wrote: "I like Glenn and didn't think he was a blowhard. I do find Tom Cullen's catch phrase M-O-O-N that spells whatever to be M-O-O-N that spells annoying. It was in there way too often for my liking."

I will stick up for it being in there as often as it is. It is Tom talking at the time and that is how Tom is. Tom is special in more then one way, there is a depth and knowledge to him that is beyond time. I love Tom's character and Stephen King hit the nail on the head when he wrote it the way he did.

James wrote: "Nick wrote: "So I'm well into this now and of course, I've been worried about having appendicitis for days. :-) I have to say I love the introduction to Mother Abagail and the backstory of her grow..."

It absolutely fit in perfectly with the dark nightmare version from the dark man, but there has been some discussion here about how King may present a little too much racism in his stories. So I was really enjoying the fact that he left it out this time, and then WHAM! he served it up by the bucket. Not that there's anything wrong with presenting hate in all its vile details. I was just enjoying the fact that this time around King skipped it. and then he didn't. But in any case, he did a great job presenting Abagail and her family, and maybe the truth that they had to suffer all this bad stuff, which they surely would have, made the book true to life. I've always admired King for not shying away from the tough stuff and this book certainly gives us every gory detail we could ever want. BTW, the writing in this book still amazes me.

I am going to open up the thread for Chapter 55 to the end because I know a lot of people have finished all of Part Two.

Nick wrote: "James wrote: "Nick wrote: "So I'm well into this now and of course, I've been worried about having appendicitis for days. :-) I have to say I love the introduction to Mother Abagail and the backsto..."

It's kind of like an authors use of the n word. You don't want to see it used but if it's what's consistent with that characters attitude it's hard for an author to shy away from using it.

James wrote: "Nick wrote: "James wrote: "Nick wrote: "So I'm well into this now and of course, I've been worried about having appendicitis for days. :-) I have to say I love the introduction to Mother Abagail an..."

I agree. It's almost like the way he uses religion here in all its positive and negative aspects. Religion is a powerful force in the book. And even though many of the characters are agnostic, that doesn't stop King from telling his story and looking at things from every angle. I think it was somewhere in the Brothers Karamazov that someone said, "I can't prove that there's a God, but I know that the devil exists." No doubt about that here or in most of King's work.

I was just thinking about decisions King made in the novel and wondered if Nick had to be def and dumb. How would it have effected the book if he wasn't?

If Nick had not been def and dumb it would have totally altered the book first it would have changed how he met the Doc and Sheriff John Baker. His meeting with Tom would have been different, Tom in essence plays the part of Nicks ears and to a certain point his voice. With out him being def and dumb Nicks character would have treated Tom differently, for that matter his whole character would have been different.

For one thing because he could read lips people needed to speak deliberately and carefully. There's a whole level here where I think King is touching on interhuman communication. With the group there is something more than what is said and heard in their communications. For the most part they trust each other and there is a sense of common purpose. By contrast, we don't see that with the Las Vegas group; they just use each other.

James wrote: "I was just thinking about decisions King made in the novel and wondered if Nick had to be def and dumb. How would it have effected the book if he wasn't?"

I think the def dumb characteristic really makes Nick unique, adds a valuable twist to the story, even makes him more likable. Nick can't respond carelessly; he has to write everything down, so he often thinks about things and polishes his thoughts. Even when he's emotionally involved, I think there has to be some reflection (maybe not in the first meeting of the council and the discussion of Tom) but almost everywhere else. Also, King seems to love to create challenges for himself when he creating characters. Think about Susanna from the dark tower. Could a character be any more challenging than she is?

And just for the record, Harold in his own way is as handicapped as anyone in the story and as complex. You can see him fighting off his better nature time and time again and choosing the dark path. As Stu would say (storywise) 'way to go Harold.'

Harold's reaction to events is completely predictable for some one who has never had a true friend and is always shunted to the back. The fact that he still see's his self as a fat boy in a mans body only proves how little self esteem he has.

mrbooks wrote: "Harold's reaction to events is completely predictable for some one who has never had a true friend and is always shunted to the back. The fact that he still see's his self as a fat boy in a mans bo..."

I agree, except that there's an element of strength in him. He somehow thinks he can be with Fran, that she might prefer him to Stu (delusional maybe but still there's something there). Also, and while this is a cause of a lot of some of our biggest social problems, he is totally capable of revenge like a lot of those high school student revenge killers. So, like it or not, Harold has his unfortunate strengths, he's capable of complex plotting and revenge. I give King credit for creating all his complexity.

I feel like I'm really enjoying learning about the characters more this time. When I read this 20 or 25 years ago, they characters were simply not AS important to me... it was all about the story. This time I'm really thinking about them and analyzing their behaviors. I still like Fran. I don't get what so many people dislike about her. She could have been kinder about Harold, but she did try, and most of her unkindness was either lack of awareness or venting. She's awfully young, too! And Harold breaks my heart. He has the potential for so much, but like many of us, got stuck in a loop because of hurt feelings and feeling victimized. Nadine frustrates me. She makes conscious choices that are almost inexplicable. I wanted to expect more from her.

Fran is annoying to a lot of people because she doesn't want to make decisions she is happy to let others do it for her. Poor Harold can make decisions and is very good at problem solving if only he put that skill to his own personal problems he wouldn't have found his self in the fix he's in. Mind you in saying that with his Obsession for Fran it really had no other possible conclusion. Nadine, Nadine set her self up for her position years ago by staying chased.

She knows what she is destined for and is just starting to realize how bad it is going to be for her. She is dreading the day she has to meet him but has no way or concept of how to escape it but one and it back fires on her.

I like Fran... she's kind of a twit though, her speech is so affected... she's not unlike Harold in that way. What I do really like is the way she gets the giggles all the time... it's almost a dangerous characteristic

Joanie wrote: "I have had the song "The Stand" by The Alarm stuck in my head the whole time I've been reading this but I really didn't know any of the lyrics other than the chorus "Come on down and meet your make..."

Joanie, Everytime I reread the Stand I also can't help but have the song by the Alarm in my head as well. Great book, great song!!

I think Gen Bateman is an interesting character. For a guy who wanted nothing to do with civilization, he ends up taking quite a role in forming the new society. Kind of the Thomas Jefferson of the Free Zone. I always picture King contacting some university somewhere and saying I'm Stephen King I'm writing a novel and I want to talk to the best person you have who knows about... whatever (Sociology). Glen's observations are well founded and important and contribute a lot to the story. I'm already impressed that King wants to include so much about the founding of a new society, but that he gives it to us through the voice of this curmudgeon is even more interesting. And I just take it for granted that the info is well researched. That's another hallmark of Mr. King. When I want this kind of information the best thing I can do is ask my wife. :-)

LOL, Nick. It sounds like you have a good source of information.

I think Glen was spot on with his predictions. He is definitely the pessimist though. I really enjoyed him even though he was somewhat long-winded. I got a good feel for him as a character and I think I would enjoy knowing someone like him in real life.

Ok got a question I need to discuss a few things with someone who is reading the unabridged version of the stand I have read both but need to clarify a few things concerning the Trashcan man.

mrbooks... don't know if I can help or not but what do you want to know about trashcan man?

mrbooks wrote: "Ok got a question I need to discuss a few things with someone who is reading the unabridged version of the stand I have read both but need to clarify a few things concerning the Trashcan man."

I just rolled over into Chapter 56. But this is my third read of the unabridged version of The Stand (once in print twice on audio) so I may have an answer or two.