ManBookering discussion

This is a discussion thread for Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders. Please be courteous of spoilers; if you are going to discuss them, give fair warning of page/chapter number or use the spoiler tag. Thanks! Happy discussing.

Finished today, it was really quite short. I thought he did an excellent job with all of the different voices and excerpts but still getting it to flow. Really interesting read.

I read this back in February this year, and I just do not understand the hype surrounding it at all. I cannot applaud the experimental fiction that it is, which I hope to never see again.

So much I have read about this novel talks about understanding the soul of another person and the binds that tie the dead and the living. I think neither of these things about the book are successful. If in understanding the souls of the characters, we are supposed to have empathy, then it failed for me. The style and the structure alone put me off of this book. I think the bardo is an interesting concept for the novel, but to write it this way is distracting, and it fails to gain any sort of momentum as you turn each page.

Disappointing. Lackluster. Forgettable.

I do not think this should be on the longlist or the shortlist, but based on what I've been reading about it, sounds like it has the backing to come out on top. I remain thoroughly confused.

Incidentally one longlisted author interviewing another - Zadie Smith seems to be a fan

http://www.interviewmagazine.com/cult...

Indeed she apparently even joined in a discussion on Goodreads

Paul wrote: "Incidentally one longlisted author interviewing another - Zadie Smith seems to be a fan..."

Thanks for sending! That was really interesting, but still not sold, even with all of Zadie Smith's comments, almost none of which I felt while reading this novel. We definitely did not have the same experience.

The general discussion they have is fascinating though, and Smith even brings up The Underground Railroad. The parts discussing race and multiplicity are quite thought-provoking.

I am only 23% through but was curious to see how others were finding or found it. On my part, I agree with Ernie so far. I can see the craft and artistry but can't help but think that I carry out similar copy and paste exercises in my day to day work. Hope it picks up.

When I read this book, the first thing I did on finishing it was buy the audiobook and listen to it through again. It's all down to personal taste, but I really loved it. I had more of a Zadie Smith experience with the book, I guess - I could relate to a lot of what she said when she described it and her feelings about it.

Is this one best read, listening to the audiobook at the same time (as I found the Eimear McBride books are) - or best read first then audiobook later.

Paul wrote: "Is this one best read, listening to the audiobook at the same time (as I found the Eimear McBride books are) - or best read first then audiobook later."

Now that's a GOOD question! Obviously I did it in series, but in parallel might work better. I'm trying to imagine what it would be like doing both together. I think McBride benefited from the rhythm and flow of the speaker helping to make sense of the words that were quite difficult when just on the page. Lincoln benefits from the multitude of voices that help differentiate each character.

I think if I had to choose, I'd go for reading then listening. But I'm not sure.

I'm so torn between audiobook and physical book for this one! I love listening to books while I read them, but don't do it often because who has the resources to shell out for both audiobook and physical. Maybe if my library comes through with both simultaneously I'll be lucky enough to do that.

Wait...so listening to the audiobook while following along? I've never tried that. I have heard that the audiobook for this one was fantastic, and that they managed to find something like 150+ people, including some big name celebrities, to read. Is that correct?

Ernie - yes - 166, I think, including Saunders himself, Ben Stiller, Susan Sarandon and Miranda July. Plus some people who are apparently famous but not to me!

I value the reading experience too much to go straight to audio, but after I read the book I just might give the audiobook a try!

Ernie wrote: "Wait...so listening to the audiobook while following along? I've never tried that. I have heard that the audiobook for this one was fantastic, and that they managed to find something like 150+ peop..."

Yeah I've read the book while listening to the audiobook in the past to help me get through longer books or ones that I wasn't loving to help me push through. But when the narrator is good, as I've heard for this one, it definitely enhances the experience for me. :]

I know its almost heresy to say that but I couldnt get through the book & gave up after about a third... I might try again if it makes the shortlist.

Paul wrote: "Is this one best read, listening to the audiobook at the same time (as I found the Eimear McBride books are) - or best read first then audiobook later."

When I was reading the book I found myself almost distracted by constantly wondering whose voice I was reading so I kept flipping forward to see who the section was attributed to. When I listened to the audio, however, i just enjoyed it. It seemed to flow easier for me.

You often hear the phrases "written for television"/"film" but sounds like this one is written for Radio!

Switched to audiobook as suggested which made a difference but not enough for me. Parts of the Book are brilliant and the artistry is great but as a whole I didn't enjoy it.

I was shocked by how much I love this book, as Saunders is very much an acquired taste. It's a fast, almost frenetically-paced read, but it's by no means easy! I had to really surrender myself to the atmosphere and the barrage of narrators. I absolutely think this would reward multiple reads, as I know I missed a lot, so I will probably listen to the audiobook in the future, as Paul mentioned. So, I'm not sure which format I'd recommend!! But the novel is certainly NOT for everyone, but I really adored it.

I finished this yesterday and wasn't a fan. My main problem was with all the characters at the graveyard, I thought there were far too many and they were difficult to keep track of and distracted me from the main story. If these had been cut down I think they'd have been more development with Lincoln, his son and the three main characters from the graveyard. As it was, there was too much focus on the format of the book and not enough on the characters. I found it an entirely unemotional read, as there were only glimmers of this from Lincoln or his son but they didn't have nearly enough time devoted to them. This is also my first book by Saunders, so his writing style might not be to my taste anyway, though it felt hard to determine what his prose is like from this book as it was so choppy.

Becky wrote: "For those who are curious (like myself), here is a link to the full cast of the audiobook narration (including Saunders himself).

http://www.penguinrandomhouseaudio.co..."

Thanks for the link. It might be something I refer to later.

I started it yesterday, was really confused at first but found a NYT article that helped. I'm rather enjoying it now. Love the humour 😊

Do you have a link to the article?

Paul wrote: "Do you have a link to the article?"

Sure, it was the New Yorker though, not NYT:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/201...

Thanks

Just finished this one and wasn't really a fan. Conceptually I thought it was fresh and interesting, but the execution fell flat in my opinion. I wish it hadn't been all told through the characters' dialogue. I'm not a fan of that style because it makes the book go by so quickly and I have a harder time getting invested in the characters. I thought the parts about Lincoln's emotions, his psyche and dealing with the grief, were the most interesting.

Also I could see this being a really interesting radio drama (like the audiobook) or even a stage play. Not sure how they'd accomplish it, but I'm sure there's some really interesting production that could be made with the material.

Thanks for the New Yorker link. Reading the article when it was originally published was what caused me to read the book earlier in the year. Unlike some of the recent comments I loved it first time round and am going to try the audio version now it has been longlisted.

I loved it when I read it and I bought the audiobook immediately and listened to it straight away. For me, the multitude of voices did not distract but enhanced. I thought the creativity in the writing was wonderful. I still can't quite decide if I preferred the book or the audiobook.

Maxwell wrote: "Just finished this one and wasn't really a fan. Conceptually I thought it was fresh and interesting, but the execution fell flat in my opinion. I wish it hadn't been all told through the characters..."

This is exactly how I feel. The chapters with the excerpts were much better - because they gave a good kaleidoscopic view of how the nation felt. I loved that bit. I think around 70% mark this stops and the story of the Ghosts continues - it's a bit stretched from there - especially the last 10% of it. The characters and story get repetitious and their transformation less interesting.

I'm not sure how to rate this. I can see the literary value of the book and I enjoyed the ideas but I would lie if I said I enjoyed reading the book from beginning to end. Shouldn't a book that wins a prize like the Man Booker be thoroughly enjoyable, too? I think it's not accessible enough to win.

I was hesitant going into this one because it had a lot of "hype," but I was totally swept up in it. The writing is gorgeous and the format did not confuse me or turn me off at all. I got this from the library, but I think I want to invest in it for my own collection.

Surprised at the more 'meh' ratings on here. My experience was the opposite - in many respects brilliant although with some glaring flaws.

Having completed the book, I think in many respects it is flawed but brilliant. Genuinely moving yet funny at the same time, profound but witty, technically impressive - one I will remember for a long time.

Certainly one I would be delighted to see win - although the same is true, if not more so, of Reservoir 13, Autumn, Exit West and Solar Bones.

On the positive side it is highly original (yes others have done the voices from the grave thing before but not many and not in such a witty fashion), both funny and yet at times genuinely moving, technically highly accomplished and a book I will remember for a long time.

I was though troubled by the mixing of the real and invented sources in the parts using historic quotes. Both made me feel a little uneasy in an era of both fake news, and the use of the accusation of fake news to discredit real sources. And I think it also diminishes from the technical achievement: telling a story by a range of real quotes is made rather easier if one can simply invent ones to fill the gap.

Maxwell wrote: "Just finished this one and wasn't really a fan. Conceptually I thought it was fresh and interesting, but the execution fell flat in my opinion. I wish it hadn't been all told through the characters..."

"stage play" That's exactly what I said in my review. It kept coming to me as I listened.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I am not surprised by the very different opinions on this book because it is a very different book. It's a book where the form can easily overshadow the story within. However, from my point of view, this was not the case. I was confused for the first couple of pages, mostly because I thought it was supposed to be about Lincoln and it wasn't but I got into this way of telling the story rather quickly and just loved it.
I loved how the ghosts helped each other tell their stories, interrupted each other, bickered - and how the quotes told the rest of the story (although I agree with the point about having an issue with fictive quotes and these not being clearly identifiable).
I enjoyed the ghosts' conversations and the quotes showing that memory is fallible.
But mostly I loved the intimate portrayal of a grieving father.
I will be very surprised if this is not on the shortlist!

As mentioned in the general thread, here is a brief comment from the podcast interview with Lila Azam Zanganeh (LAZ) and Colin Thubron (CT) on the longlist selections.

Lincoln in the Bardo
LAZ: Well, there’s another remarkable book. First, it’s George Saunders first foray into the novel, and what’s completely extraordinary about this book is that he tries to reinvent and effectively reinvents what a novel is. It really blends aspects of the theater and biography, poetry, the novel, a new kind of essay. Even the title, I think, which is so unusual, is already something novel and original. He does it with a verve and a vigor and a sort of fearlessness that is extremely seductive and very, very beautiful.

Christina wrote: "I am not surprised by the very different opinions on this book because it is a very different book. It's a book where the form can easily overshadow the story within. However, from my point of view..."

I believe that, in a way, the conversations of the ghosts showed their "humanity." That's how we talk to (and at) one another. It was one of the things I really enjoyed about the book as well.

I had so much fun reading this. A brilliant, funny and oddly poignant book. I was off Saunders for a while but now my admiration for him has returned. Definitely the best thing he's done since Pastoralia.

Paula wrote: "Christina wrote: "I am not surprised by the very different opinions on this book because it is a very different book. It's a book where the form can easily overshadow the story within. However, fro..."

I agree completely, Paula. The conversations between the ghosts felt like real humans talking :) I was very impressed with his ability to write dialogue that felt so real.

Neil wrote: "Paul wrote: "Is this one best read, listening to the audiobook at the same time (as I found the Eimear McBride books are) - or best read first then audiobook later."

Now that's a GOOD question! Ob..." I actually started reading the audiobook because of the hype around it, but got hopelessly lost. Ended up reading and listening in parallel. Reading helped breaking down the structure and listening connected me to the emotional side. First time I read any book in this fashion.

Pink wrote: "I finished this yesterday and wasn't a fan. My main problem was with all the characters at the graveyard, I thought there were far too many and they were difficult to keep track of and distracted m..." Yes I too felt the structure got in the way and the characters could use some downsizing. however, the audiobook did help with the flow and the emotional connection.