Classics for Beginners discussion

This will discuss Part 2 which is chapters 8-16.

Just beginning Part 2.

Yikes! Thank God I haven't posted anything yet. I'm done with part 2, just finished the first chapter in part 3. GWTW is one of my favorite books of all time, so it is a fast read for me.
I'll wait for your guys to finish this part.

Joy wrote: "Anyone still reading? I'm taking it pretty slow. Rhett Butler is delightfully naughty, isn't he?"

Yes! Rhett is delightfully naughty and extremely intelligent! Even though Ashley is still in the picture, Scarlett is falling for Rhett without her even noticing!

Just finished part 1. I'm beginning now part 2.
I didn't know Scarlett had a baby with Charles Hamilton. I've only seen the movie and it was a total surprise!

I was surprised about the other baby stuff too, having only seen the movie before.

Joy wrote: "It's been so long since I saw the movie. So she didn't have the baby boy in the movie?"

That is correct. The movie, I feel, leaves a lot out. The book is so long and I am sure it was difficult to get it all into a movie, but I never understood why the movie did not have all of Scarlett's children in it.

Yes, I don't understand why they cut him from the movie. Even though she's not the world's greatest mom, he was part of Scarlett's transformation, imho.

Joy wrote: "It's been so long since I saw the movie. So she didn't have the baby boy in the movie?"

In the movie she had the girl with Rhett, Bonny, but that's it.

I think maybe they figured the audience would connect less with the new marriage if she had other children, or else the struggle of finding three good child actors in that day, who knows. It would have made it more difficult with the scenes.

I just completed up to Pt 3. So far, I'm enjoying the book much more than I thought. I went so far as to buy myself a better copy of the movie and hope to see much more of the character development in it. Does anyone else see the movie character every time a person speaks? I do and it's unnerving to say the least. Wish I'd read the book first but it was daunting at the time of my first viewing of the film. Now.. I think I like the book better.

GWTW is my favorite book of all time, too. I did see the movie first, and did "see" the characters as I was reading, but thought the book was SO much better than the movie!

I think they did an exceptional job with the movie and carried almost everything over. The casting was spot on. I do envision the characters of Scarlett and Rhett from the movies, they had the perfect look and mannerisms.

Yes, it's inevitable not to see the movie characters while reading. When you read the descriptions of everyone and everything you have to admit like Erin said, that they did such an exceptional job with the movie. I can't imagine it otherwise.

This section should be a discussion of the book and not the movie. I have never seen the movie and have no intention of seeing it. However, I have read Part 2 and would like to discuss some of it. Would it be helpful to add a thread to this book discussion where the movie can be discussed?

Who is taking care of Scarlett's baby? What do you think of her maternal skills? Is she capable of loving anyone other than herself? I feel sorry for her child.

What kind of person reads someone else's mail? I dislike Scarlett more and more, although I did like how the author showed how Scarlett handled this dishonorable act. "When Scarlett first began secretly reading these letters, she had been so stricken of conscience and so fearful of discovery she could hardly open the envelopes for trembling. Now, her never-too-scrupulous sense of honor was dulled by repetition of the offense and even fear of discovery had subsided." Scarlett thought about what her mother would say, "but the temptation to read the letters was too great and she put the thought of Ellen out of her mind. She had become adept at putting unpleasant thoughts out of her mind these days. She had learned to say, 'I won't think of this or that bothersome thought now. I'll think about it tomorrow.' Generally when tomorrow came, the thought either did not occur at all or it was so attenuated by delay it was not very troublesome." This is what the Bible means when it talks about hypocrites "having their conscience seared with a hot iron." Rhett knows Scarlet is a hypocrite, but I am not sure Scarlett recognizes it yet.

Margaret Mitchell is accurate with the Civil War battles and their generals and how the residents of Georgia reacted to the changes in the war. However, she ignored a very important historical event. She acted as if the Emancipation Proclamation was a non-event. On January 1, 1863, Abraham Lincoln proclaimed the freedom of slaves in the ten states that were still in rebellion.

Wikipedia says this: "In every Confederate state (except Tennessee and Texas), the Proclamation went into immediate effect in Union-occupied areas and at least 20,000 slaves were freed at once on January 1, 1863." This includes Georgia! As the Union troops started invading and conquering the South, they freed the slaves. In addition, many slaves fled to the Union lines in order to gain freedom. This must have never happened in Margaret Mitchell's Georgia since all the slaves were happy.

It will interesting to see what happens when the Union captures Atlanta. Do the slaves still remain loyal? I will have to wait and see in Part 3.

Rhett says the following: "All wars are sacred to those who have to fight them. If the people who started wars didn't make them sacred, who would be foolish enough to fight? But, no matter what rallying cries the orators give to the idiots who fight, no matter what noble purposes they assign to wars, there is never but one reason for a war. And that is money."

Do you agree with his assessment?

Rhett Butler says,"There'll always be wars because men love wars. Women don't, but men do--yea, passing the love of women." Isn't it interesting that most of the men killed so far were the characters in the beginning of the book who glorified war and its "sacred" cause?

☯Emily has reviews on Booklikes wrote: "This section should be a discussion of the book and not the movie. I have never seen the movie and have no intention of seeing it. However, I have read Part 2 and would like to discuss some of it..."

I don't think mentioning that for those of us who have seen the movie it's impossible not to picture the movie characters while reading detours the thread or is discussing the movie. For me it was just a simple commentary on the reading experience. So to answer your question, I don't think we need a thread for the movie.

☯Emily has reviews on Booklikes wrote: "Who is taking care of Scarlett's baby? What do you think of her maternal skills? Is she capable of loving anyone other than herself? I feel sorry for her child.

What kind of person reads someon..."

Emily, I have a feeling that you haven't liked Scarlett from the get go. Scarlett's son is being taken care by his nanny as all the babies of that time where. Scarlett and her sisters where raised by a nanny. Ellen wasn't a sanctified mother either. As far as I know, all the rich women from that time had nothing to do in their taking care of their kids. They had nannies to look after them, even wet nurses to feed them. Kids saw their parents when their parents requested to see them to spend some time with them. (For those of you who would like to read about the relationship between a white child and her wet nurse Yellow Crocus is a compelling fantastic read.)

Yes those were poor parenting skills, but these skills were not exclusive to Scarlett. Almost all the women from that time did it that way.

Scarlett is not a role model and I don't think she was ever portrayed that way. She isn't flawless. She is a young overprotected and capricious child that had to grow up without any adult direction during the War. This doesn't justify her actions, but questioning her faults and lack of judgement doesn't make the whole reading experience of this book enjoyable.

☯Emily has reviews on Booklikes wrote: "Rhett Butler says,"There'll always be wars because men love wars. Women don't, but men do--yea, passing the love of women." Isn't it interesting that most of the men killed so far were the charac..."


Yes, Rhett has a good point. It always has been about the money.

And yes, it's interesting that all the war supporters died. It's interestingly ironic.

Bloggeretterized wrote: "I don't think mentioning that for those of us who have seen the movie it's impossible not to picture the movie characters while reading detours the thread or is discussing the movie. For me it was just a simple commentary on the reading experience.

Yes, agreed.

☯Emily has reviews on Booklikes wrote: "Rhett Butler says,"There'll always be wars because men love wars. Women don't, but men do--yea, passing the love of women." Isn't it interesting that most of the men killed so far were the charac..."

No, I think just the majority died because that is the way of the war. I do agree - men love war and violence and I think they were all amped up for this war. I agree with Rhett's statements about it.

☯Emily has reviews on Booklikes wrote: "Who is taking care of Scarlett's baby? What do you think of her maternal skills? Is she capable of loving anyone other than herself? I feel sorry for her child.

What kind of person reads someon..."

I do think she loved her parents, at least as much as she was able. Her children were born out of a surprise and not love and got in her way, at least in her view, making things more inconvenient. I think she sees the child as a burden and nothing else, so I definitely feel sorry for the child.

Despite this, I'm sure she took care of him as well as she could. Times of war made it hard and children then would have had a bad childhood during the duration.

Joy wrote: "Bloggeretterized wrote: "Scarlett is not a role model and I don't think she was ever portrayed that way. She isn't flawless. She is a young overprotected and capricious child that had to grow up wi..."

Bloggeretterized, I was trying to generate some discussion and I think I was successful!

Joy wrote: "Bloggeretterized wrote: "Scarlett is not a role model and I don't think she was ever portrayed that way. She isn't flawless. She is a young overprotected and capricious child that had to grow up wi..."

Why would I slap you? No need to! This is the fun of discussions. Sharing your POVs and reading those of others is what opens and feeds your mind. ;)

☯Emily has reviews on Booklikes wrote: "Joy wrote: "Bloggeretterized wrote: "Scarlett is not a role model and I don't think she was ever portrayed that way. She isn't flawless. She is a young overprotected and capricious child that had t..."

Yes you were! :)

Regarding Sacrlett's parenting skills, I know this thread is for part 2, but there's a breakfast scene in part 3 where it shows you the boy interacted with her mother like any other kid does, despite being brought up by his nanny.

☯Emily has reviews on Booklikes wrote: "Rhett says the following: "All wars are sacred to those who have to fight them. If the people who started wars didn't make them sacred, who would be foolish enough to fight? But, no matter what r..."

I'm not sure I agree with Rhett. I am sure it is true of some wars but I like to think there are some that are fought from an ideological base.

I suppose I'm thinking of WWII - no money in that for England - the war broke it's back. And those who went to the war (based on the entirely reliable anecdata of my relatives ;) ) went for ideological reasons to support the mother country (England).

Probably someone will come and dispel my myths and there was money involved. Still, I think stopping Hitler was a worthwhile cause, even if it was secondary to the cash.

I think that Rhett Butler is saying wars "start" because of economic reasons. WWII certainly fit into that category. I'm sure most Americans fought for ideological reasons, but Hitler started on his path because of the economic woes of Germany. Our country gained economically because of the war and there has been an active movement since then to always have a war or rumors of wars so we Americans can have economic prosperity. Prime example is Iraq.

Fair call. I missed the nuance of 'start'. I had stayed away from Iraq as an example as because I agree absolutely it was a war for economic reasons!