Victorians! discussion

Anne Brontë is dealing with some serious issues in this section.

First there is the alcohol abuse, the violent scenes and the relationship between the alcoholic husband and his wife.

I am surprised that Helen is so calm throughout. What do you think of this relationship with an alcoholic husband?

Then Helen discovers that he and a guest are having an affair, right there, under her roof and surrounded by a group of friends. What do you think of Annabella’s attitude towards Helen? I was appalled.

These things happen in all countries, all social classes and throughout all ages.

Yes, her treatment of these issues is powerful and so far ahead of her time. We know she was disparaged for it during her lifetime. Perhaps the most tragic aspect of the sisters' lives is that, especially Anne and Emily, never knew how important their work would become for centuries to come.

This section drags a bit. But the psychological and emotional abuse is very well-portrayed. One guesses Anne combined observations from her bad governess experience with those of her brother. I love that she bravely chose to be realistic, in part to save others, probably also because she was so horrified and felt a deep need to work out her feelings and experiences in the novel.

I am curious to learn what finally drives her to escape. I never expected this novel to be so unusual, powerful, important, so glad we are reading it.

Charlotte wrote: "Anne Brontë is dealing with some serious issues in this section.

First there is the alcohol abuse, the violent scenes and the relationship between the alcoholic husband and his wife.

I am surpr..."

I read this part with difficulty. The atrocious treatment by Huntingdon towards Helen is shocking. Helen keeps calm to avoid any violent scenes and also to keep her sanity.

Annabella taunts Helen in the knowledge of her 'secret affair' with Huntingdon. Even when Helen finds out and contfronts her, she behaves like a heroine saying that she is the only woman who can make Huntingdon happy and content. Such a nerve! It is really disgusting how she thinks so proudly of her infidelity.

Charlotte wrote: "These things happen in all countries, all social classes and throughout all ages...."

That is the beauty of this classic. It is timeless. It is still the story of numerous women/men in the world.

Kathy wrote: "I love that she bravely chose to be realistic, ..."

This is the difference of Anne from her more famous sisters. Her writing is literal and realistic. She tells us a powerful story influenced by her real life experience with her brother Branwell simply and directly, without leaving room for reader interpretation.

What I find to be most sad in this section is that Helen is at points willing to forgive Huntington if he will repent. If his behavior seems to be improving - not abusive- she cannot maintain her strict coldness toward him. Does her love for him run that deep- even while at the same time she asserts that he will make her hate him?
I think Annabella finds enjoyment in taking Huntington away from Helen as much as she is in love (is she?) with Huntington. Taking pleasure in tormenting Helen is something she shares with Huntington.
Anne's portrayal of Helen's concern for her son and Huntington's influence on him certainly rings true and is a testament to her skill as a writer as she was not a mother herself.
The fact that Helen had to ask Huntington's permission if she could leave him with her son and her money- her money-, only to be denied, highlights the absolute lack of rights married women had at the time.

I could not believe that Huntington would go away for months and leave her alone. The way he treated her after he returned home was more than awful. I wondered what he was doing in London. I am sure it wasn't a business trip.

Annabella seems to be very much like Huntington in personality. They both enjoy manipulating others. They both have little use for morality or empathy. They enjoy flouting the rules of conduct. And in seeing/creating misery in others... As though the power to do so is somehow like additive and pleasurable drug. They are both absorbed with themselves and their own desires.

But, as someone said, as a man of his times Huntington has unlimited power and the law behind him. He truly can behave as he wishes with no repercussions. (Unless he falls down the stairs in a drunken stupor. Maybe Helen will push him! And now has to hide away in secret!)

Rampant speculation, but I'd love to see that happen!

I found it very sad that the babies are named Arthur and Helen. They play together so innocently--.."my Arthur supporting the feebler steps of her little Helen, and sagaciously pointing out to her the brightest beauties of the border as they passed, with semi-articulate prattle, that did as well for her as any other mode of discourse. " What Helen imagined a companionate marriage would be like, I suspect.

Helen's religious faith sustains her, but I wonder if it also holds her back from finding a real life for herself. She believes that her marriage vows have been made to God, and the fact that Arthur breaks them does not release her from them. When she finds the lovers in the garden, she is comforted by her God--he takes on the role that a husband should. And she truly believes that her suffering in this life will be made right in heaven.

"Then, while I lifted up my soul in speechless, earnest supplication, some heavenly influence seemed to strengthen me within: I breathed more freely; my vision cleared; I saw distinctly the pure moon shining on, and the light clouds skimming the clear, dark sky; and then I saw the eternal stars twinkling down upon me; I knew their God was mine, and He was strong to save and swift to hear. ‘I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee,’ seemed whispered from above their myriad orbs. No, no; I felt He would not leave me comfortless: in spite of earth and hell I should have strength for all my trials, and win a glorious rest at last! "

Annabella really is a horrid specimen! She exploits the connection between her and Huntingdon in order to punish Helen. But for what? She seems to thrive on cruelty towards others. It almost appears as though she has met her 'soulmate' in Arthur, but no. Once the ardour were to cool on either side neither would be seen for dust!

Well, all good things come to an end, yes, and even bad! The time comes when Annabella has to leave the country home of Arthur and Helen. Arthur 'was peevish and low' (like a spoilt child who wasn't allowed his candy). As a consequence, Helen says Arthur was 'particularly ill-tempered to me: everything I did was wrong; I was cold-hearted, hard, insensate; my sour, pale face was perfectly repulsive; my voice made him shudder; he knew not how he could live through the winter with me; I should kill him by inches.' Had I been in Helen's shoes I might just have taken this last admonition quite literally except that I would perhaps consider a foot at a time; why prolong the agony?! :D

Seriously though I am very cross at the whole situation. I am glad that Helen has a strong Christian faith, but I wish that they had had a look at the New Testament exceptions which made divorce allowable: unfaithfulness, for example. When reading this I feel that in a way much has improved in the roles of husband and wife, but we're still not there yet, not by a long shot!

I meant to say earlier that I lost quite a lot of interest with the throwback and its being brought to us via a diary. I was enjoying the developping relationship between Gilbert and Helen and then suddenly we're whisked back to a different time and place. I am beginning to enjoy it more now for which I am hugely grateful!

Two thoughts- Helen does ask Huntington to let her and young Arthur leave him and that she have her money, so she is looking for a way out of the marriage. His refusal leaves her no,option but to stay.

At the time Tenant was written, married women were not really able to initiate divorce proceedings.
From Wikipedia and other sources--Marriages for Victorian women became contracts,one which was extremely difficult if not impossible to get out of during the Victorian era. Women’s rights groups fought for equality and over time made strides to change rights and privileges, however, many Victorian women endured their husband's control, cruelty targeted against wives; including sexual violence, verbal abuse and economic deprivation and were given no way out. While husbands participated in affairs with other women, wives endured infidelity as they had no rights to divorce on these grounds and their divorce was considered to be a social taboo.

Great change in the situation of women took place in the 19th century, especially concerning marriage laws and the legal rights of women to divorce and/or gain custody of children. The situation that fathers always received custody of their children, leaving the mother without any rights, slowly started to change. The Custody of Infants Act in 1839 gave mothers of unblemished character access to their children in the event of separation or divorce, and the Matrimonial Causes Act in 1857 gave women limited access to divorce. But while the husband only had to prove his wife's adultery, a woman had to prove her husband had not only committed adultery but also incest, bigamy, cruelty or desertion.

How would a woman even prove her husband was guilty of all these conditions even after the 1857 act was passed? I'm sure it was extremely difficult and perhaps costly. Still little way out for women.

Piyangie wrote: "Kathy wrote: "I love that she bravely chose to be realistic, ..."

This is the difference of Anne from her more famous sisters. Her writing is literal and realistic. She tells us a powerful story i..."
Yes! Well-said. It is so interesting that the most pious of the sisters was also the bravest in her writing. But as we've noted, she saw herself truth-telling to save lives...

Renee wrote: "Annabella seems to be very much like Huntington in personality. They both enjoy manipulating others. They both have little use for morality or empathy. They enjoy flouting the rules of conduct. And..."

Great points, I did not notice this while I read, but now I see it.

Ginny wrote: "Helen's religious faith sustains her, but I wonder if it also holds her back from finding a real life for herself. She believes that her marriage vows have been made to God, and the fact that Arthu..."

Great point, missed that - fitting with Anne's deep faith.

Linda wrote: "Two thoughts- Helen does ask Huntington to let her and young Arthur leave him and that she have her money, so she is looking for a way out of the marriage. His refusal leaves her no,option but to s..."
Thank you, very interesting and overwhelming. We are lucky to have been born in the 20th C.

Linda, that is a horrendous list to have to prove. I had assumed that once divorce became legal, adultery was all that was necessary. Pretty ghastly!

It's difficult to think that until the 1960s (in the U.K. and Ireland, at least) a woman had to have written permission from her husband in order for her to leave the country.

1960?!?!?!