SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

I'm hearing murmurings about trying out Way of Kings, and possibly wanting a little impetus.

Interested in a buddy read? If so, I'll change the topic and this will be where we discuss how amazing this series is what you think about Way of Kings and possibly Words of Radiance, gearing up for Oathbringer, which I'm totally gonna devour in less than a month.

I'm in except I have already read Way of Kings. However, I have Words of Radiance sitting near my bed needing to be read before my audible pre-order of Oathbringer arrives.

I could use some refresher on Way of Kings.

I’m in!

Cool! Hank, I think that's fine. I want a refresher with WOK, and WOR, (anyone else mad Oathbringer changes the whole naming schema? No? Just me?) so we'll probably move fairly quickly.

I have my book queued up and will start either tomorrow or the day after. That work for y'all?

Oh thanks for reminding me about Oathbringer. I love these books but there's no way I could find the time to reread them. Good luck.

Kim wrote: "Oh thanks for reminding me about Oathbringer. I love these books but there's no way I could find the time to reread them. Good luck."

IDK where I'm finding the time either, but lack of planning's never stopped me before!

I just finished Way of Kings Saturday, but am more than willing to participate in the conversation.

Excellent! I just ask that anything beyond say the first chapter or two, we try our best to use spoiler tags. I like to include the chapter or page number so people can check spoilers as they read without fear of getting a future thing ruined.

Reshuffling the tbr list so I should be able to start tonight or tomorrow.

I'm likely not going to be re-reading WoK because I skimmed the Kaladin sections (AGAIN) recently, but I will be staking this thread and making comments. //nodnod

Well like I said it’s staring at me so if everyone starts commenting I may have to start it!!

I'm doing Oathbringer with my own group, but I may chime in here with comments. The books are too long for me to do a reread. I'm planning one before book 6 because he's said their will be a big break between 1-5 and 6-10.

Probably not 100% necessary but I thought that the novella Edgedancer really added to the story line and glad I read this before Oathbringer comes out.

I’m in, just started WoK yesterday :)

sweet! Good call on edgedancer Conal. I don't know if I'll be able to make all of it but I would like to try! Sounds like we have a good group for it!

I'm in too!

Cool. Let's get this thing rollin! I can't believe I'm stopping to read 2000 pages of something I've already read but it's gotta be in my top 5 series. If you can't stop for what you love, then what are we reading for?

Got up to Part 1 last night.

Has any formula ever stressed the "epic" in "epic fantasy" quite as emphatically as [Title Page + Map + Prelude + Another Title Page + 4,500 Years Later + Another Map + Prologue]? Well, then. *Deep breath.* Yes, I'm reading epic fantasy!

I'm going to
Be starting WOK in the next few weeks, so I may wind up a few chapters behind, but I'll be reading along with.

Travis wrote: "Got up to Part 1 last night.

Has any formula ever stressed the "epic" in "epic fantasy" quite as emphatically as [Title Page + Map + Prelude + Another Title Page + 4,500 Years Later + Another Map..."

hahaha!

Yeah man. This is legit epic fantasy. Hold onto your wizard hat, it might blow you away!

Starting in the relative now.

An initial impression about the Prologue to Book One, which I'll hide under the spoiler tag:

(view spoiler)[I was worried at first because the violence felt like a cartoonish video game: the very easy killing, the changing perspective (ceilings becoming floors, etc.), the hallways with new targets around every corner. But then I got to those sentences on page 19 about people dropping "round him like toys knotted over by a child's careless kick" and "weapons created to fight nightmares turned against common soldiers." Those made me relax a bit, thinking that I'm in the hands of an author who's doing something more with violence and killing than I yet realize.

The ambiguity at the end of the section was fantastic, Szeth's confusion about what's right, what wrong, who's good, who's evil matching my own.

Very excited to keep reading! (hide spoiler)]

Travis wrote: "An initial impression about the Prologue to Book One, which I'll hide under the spoiler tag:"

(view spoiler)[Yeah, the reason it felt so cartoonish was definitely intentional. (hide spoiler)]

Travis, I had the exact same impression the first time.

Another prologue discussion:

(view spoiler)[When I first read the prelude, it felt like an anime. And then I wondered if this was Mistborn the Fantastical Edition. But like you said, you soon realize that's not quite accurate. (hide spoiler)]

I'll also pop in from time to time on this discussion - I've already read WOK and WOR, and am hanging out for Oathbringer :)

Man my timing sucks - I read WOK earlier this year and I've just finished WOR. I would have loved a buddy read! I will deffo be reading Oathbringer when it comes out so I hope we can buddy for that too :)

Hi everyone, I'm in too! I'm right in my first read of WOK (about 2/3 in), and planning to go on with WOR as soon as I finish.

This is actually the first Sanderson's book I'm reading, so my first impressions are both about his writing generally and this specific book/series. So far I want to mention a couple of things.

The beginning felt somewhat over-saturated and confusing: however much I appreciate the careful and detailed world building, here it felt like the first few pages were a funny kind of information dump, with all those peoples, countries, appearances, names, and constantly changing POVs being dropped on you but without actual explanation of anything. (I'm not saying I wanted an explanation, by no means, it just felt like there was too much of everything and it was all too disparate.) So during the first few chapters I mostly felt only curious, but once those separate narratives started showing signs of being interconnected, I immediately took my hat off for Sanderson and decided that I'm really enjoying both the book and his writing. Once I stopped having a hard time remembering who is who and what is where, the book really drew me in.

And then came the moment when I realised I don't just like, I love this book already before I'm done with it, and it was in Chapter 45. (view spoiler)[The whole sequence of Shallan sketching the symbol heads just blew me away. It is so hair-raisingly, perfectly crafted, it had me literally gasping. (hide spoiler)] I'm excited to read on!

Woot! Great to have so many people. This is one of my all time favorite series (nascent, though it is).

Elena, I love the reveal in this series. Szeth teaching us about Lashings, seeing all the spren (I love spren on about the same level I love daemons), all of it. It's like waking up in a myth that some other culture knows perfectly well. Even down to the findings at the beginning of the chapter that don't make any sense at first. It's clear that someone gets all of this, and when we finally do, the pay off is tremendous. But I don't want to get too far ahead.

For now, I'll just say I love poor, gloomy Kaladin.

Question at around pg 100

(view spoiler)[ Was anyone else as horrified when they read the first bridge scene as I was? I could feel myself running at the Parshendi, barefoot and bewildered. (hide spoiler)]

It was a pretty intense scene. It caught me off guard lol. I told myself at first “at least he’s in the front (so he can see what’s ahead and set pace)” then things went bad really fast after I realized the front might not be the best place.

I love the Shattered Plains! (view spoiler)[ It is a world within a world, adventures both above and within the chasms (hide spoiler)]

Hank wrote: "I love the Shattered Plains! [spoilers removed]"

Oh man yes, the world building is simply phenomenal. I'm really appreciating how thorough he was this time around.

Allison wrote: "Question at around pg 100"

(view spoiler)[Yes! I could barely breathe through that entire scene. The moment when one of the other bridge builders gave Kaladin a piece of advice--breathe and count your steps--brought home the horror of the scene for me as much as the descriptions of physical agony. (hide spoiler)]

Comment re. Chapter 7

(view spoiler)[Um, Shallan, maybe it's just me, but this theft plan seems like it could be a really, really bad idea. (hide spoiler)]

Ok - I’ve started! Got through the prelude at least!

Hahaha! Travis, I totally agree with both your comments. There are so many little things where we get to see in subtle but visceral ways how awful his world is. And yes. Definitely (Ch 7 spoiler ahead) (view spoiler)[Shallan's plan feels a lot like one of those Step 1: Steal soulcaster. Step 2: ???? Step 3:Profit plans that makes me nervous for her even with the little we know of her. (hide spoiler)]

Woohoo! Rachel! You've only got 99% to go! lol What are you thinking so far?

This here's the problem with these books. I had to do things today, like laundry and personal projects. At some point I'll want to turn the heat on in my house, and I should probably, like, clean filters and such beforehand.

Instead I read all day. All. Day. End of Part 2.

I am figuratively dying at all the stuff I missed the first time.

I would like to talk about the gender roles, question in spoilers. (view spoiler)[ What are your thoughts on this take? What stands out as most interesting or unusual for you? Why do you think Sanderson decided to include this in the story? (hide spoiler)]

I just finished the book, and, without planning to, found myself writing a review right away. I'm new so I don't know if it's even acceptable for me to link it here - if not, just let me know and I'll get rid of it. If it's ok and if anyone's interested, my spoiler-free review is here

There are so many things I'd love to talk about, but I'm ahead so I'll wait for you guys to catch up and then take part in the discussions.

For now a spoiler-free comment: I found Wit a fascinating character!

Allison, you mentioned the reveal in a previous comment - now I understand what you were talking about! It is indeed utterly glorious. A few words on your gender roles question are hidden behind the spoiler alert. (view spoiler)[I found the gender roles quite fascinating. I think Sanderson managed an awesome balance of something typical it's kind of a cliché (a man's greatest calling being a warrior), and something unexpected and new (women being given the nearly exclusive power of scientists, engineers, artists - the power of knowledge and creation). It was startling to find out (largely) only women can read and write in this world, it definitely gave me pause as a kind of a reversed situation from most of Western history where men have had the privilege of pursuing knowledge, learning and teaching a lot more often and readily than women. As I read on, I loved the hints that the current situation might not have existed forever, and I'm so so curious about how that will be addressed in later books. The same goes for the wonderfully novel (for me at least) notion of a safehand. To be completely honest, I thought Sanderson gave too much attention to the way everyone dresses in his world (I agree it added a lot to both the immersion and even rounding particular characters, it was just a bit too much for my taste), but the detail of women having to cover their left hand for the sake of decency is intriguing. And I must say the first book has left me expecting Sanderson to answer those questions later - and I can't wait to find out. (hide spoiler)]

So glad you liked it, Elena! Wit is fascinating, and I will do my best just to say that for now. This book is just so jam-packed with Very Important Things that I want to dissect right now but that's not fair.

I love your comments about the gender roles! I think very similarly :-)

Well I'm around the 270 page mark. (Only the demands of small children and the new ST: Discovery kept me from reading all day.) At that page mark, I guess I'm about 1/40 of the way through the 10-volume series, but it's already enough to make me feel very excited about the remaining 39/40 to go!

I need to read more before commenting much on the gender roles. There have been a few generalizations about what men are like and what women are like in the Dalinar / Alodin sections that brought me out of the narrative -- in part because they felt super broad and not necessarily part of the world being built. So far, heterosexuality seems to be all-but-universal and that could be related. But I'm not yet sure....

The Shattered Plains are such a breathtaking and remarkable setting. Knowing that Sanderson is from Utah, with all of its monumental landscapes, is influencing how I'm imagining them...

Don't know if any of this comment qualifies as spoilers but I'm sure you guys will keep me in check ;)

Elena & Allison, I would like to think that Wit has a dream job. He works under the King, carries a sword, and just talks crap to everyone all day without them being able to do anything about it (unless they want to lose their land).

The gender roles for me are very interesting. All the roles work with each other and so far the people are happy with them and stick to it. An example I thought was cool is when they go to war, it's not just the men that go, the women go as scribes. Even when men talk "long distance" (I forgot what it is called), they need a scribe. But the roles seem to spread deeper than just everyday activities and into the types of food each gender's eat and other feminine or masculine traits.

I am most curious about Syl. (view spoiler)[ How did she come to be self-aware? Why is she tied to Kaladin? It could be just me but she has a larger role than what it seems. (hide spoiler)]

All I have to say about Kaladin is that he's a badass.

Mason wrote: "Don't know if any of this comment qualifies as spoilers but I'm sure you guys will keep me in check ;)

Elena & Allison, I would like to think that Wit has a dream job. He works under the King, car..."

...Read fassterrrrrr.

I hope that my comment was both insightful and encouraging. lol. No, good question. I'd like to understand a lot of that better, too.

I did really like what Brandon (I can call him that, we've now spent something like 100 hours together through his books) did here with genders. I'm assuming we learn more about why safehands are a thing, which is why he keeps bringing it up. I have some spoilerific ideas that I'll share when we finish Words of Radiance! More in spoiler comments. I think if you're baout 50% in, nothing should be new. (view spoiler)[I like how he tackles all of the buzz words within feminist circles without making it feel like the "main" plot. Like there's a weird divide between men and women and they're both a little worse off for it, but I'm glad that he didn't make them of different value. So many times in fantasy the author makes only the "main" women characters worthy of respect and love, like they're different for being clever or strong or whatever. I like that it's clear that that doesn't hold here, even if there's still a fairly arbitrary and biased society that surrounds them. (hide spoiler)]

And eff yeah! Kaladin rocks. (again 50% mark) (view spoiler)[ But I think Brandon has a bit of a Thing for martyrs. (hide spoiler)]

Mason wrote: "All I have to say about Kaladin is that he's a badass. "

Spoiler from, I think, chapter 17
(view spoiler)[I just finished the chapter where he took over the front position in the bridge crew and then took it upon himself to heal and save as many of the injured as possible. Wow! What an amazing character. (hide spoiler)]

That is such a good moment, Travis.

Also I just bought Edgedancer, because let's be very honest, there's no way I'm not going to read it, likely often.

...It's 270 pages! That's not a short story, Brandon! That is a book!

Travis wrote: Spoiler from, I think, chapter 17
[spoilers removed]"

That's when I really started to enjoy Kaladin's storyline. (view spoiler)[ When he decided not to take the leap and fight to help himself and the other bridgemen. (hide spoiler)]

Allison wrote: "...Read fassterrrrrr."

Lol, I feel like I haven't stopped since I started. I was also reading Dune but I find it increasingly difficult to stop reading WOK. I even got a friend to start reading it because I talk about it all the time. It is crazy to think that's there is so much left even after reading 60%. Definitely reading Edgedancer as well.

In terms of the gender discussion (view spoiler)[ I had the same thought. He made them separate but not any lesser than one another which I thought was eventually going to happen (glad I was wrong). They're worse off like you said but they "complete" each other, for lack of better term. (hide spoiler)]

Mason wrote: "Travis wrote: Spoiler from, I think, chapter 17
[spoilers removed]"

That's when I really started to enjoy Kaladin's storyline. [spoilers removed]Allison wrote: "...Read fassterrrrrr."

Lol, I feel..."

Haha! Yess, convert them all. That is *my* Calling ;-)

Re gender(view spoiler)[ though, of course, the warrior calling is highest, so technically others are lower. But that's again what I like about it. He's drawing really strong parallels in different ways. "Okay, Mr. holier-than-thou Highprince. Go ahead and make food, and provide heat for yourself, and communicate with your generals without women. I double dog dare you." That's a fun twist I haven't seen much in books. Usually we have the struggle to be accepted as "one of" the group, not the struggles of being respected but in a separate group. (hide spoiler)]

Allison wrote: "That is such a good moment, Travis.

Also I just bought Edgedancer, because let's be very honest, there's no way I'm not going to read it, likely often.

...It's 270 pages! That's not a short story..."

I got it as part of his Cosmere collection Arcanum Unbounded: The Cosmere Collection. It's nice that you can pick it up by itself now, but that book was still worth it for me since I like all of his cosmere stuff.

I think it's more akin to a Novella, and could just as easily be an interlude in the novels themselves. They already get pretty long. I do think he commented how this particular story was too long/wouldn't fit in one of the novels until much latter, so he released it by itself.

Rob wrote: "Allison wrote: "That is such a good moment, Travis.

Also I just bought Edgedancer, because let's be very honest, there's no way I'm not going to read it, likely often.

...It's 270 pages! That's n..."

270 pages pushes the boundary of novella, even. Like I get it, it's a short story, like the Rothfuss books that surround Kingkiller, but novellas are usually under 40,000 words, which translates to ~150 pages. This is two novellas in a book jacket, just like I assume Brandon is two authors in a man-suit.

Yeah well Sanderson doesn't know how to write short..Whatever you categorize it as, it's a good addition to the series. Especially since I really like that character from her interlude in Words of Radiance

Rob wrote: "Yeah well Sanderson doesn't know how to write short..."

To say the least! ;)

I ain't mad! I will read all of this world in all of the pages. I just am further behind than I had anticipated. Agreed, this character was cool. And I feel like we need to append sanderson to the book types to clarify. "it's a Sanderson short story." "Oh, so like 80,000 words, got it."