Queereaders discussion

This thread is for discussing one of our group reads for November and December 2017, They Both Die at the End by Adam Silvera.

I'm about a third of the way into the novel. I thought I was not going to like it at the beginning when Mateo's ruminating about his situation. But it has really grown on me and has caused unexpected emotional responses.

I finished this wonderful, disturbing, yet uplifting novel—thinking about a review. It's the sort of book I have trouble explaining its effect.

Glad you liked it Bill! I ordered a copy, but it won't arrive until next week.

I finished this one recently for another group and I really liked it. The premise was really interesting and the writing was pretty solid. I like the world building, I liked the characters, and I absolutely loved seeing a book populated almost exclusive by characters of color. That was a great touch, and I'll be keeping an eye for more work from this author in the future.

Just picked up my copy from the library, so when I finish what I'm reading this will be next.

Bill wrote: "Just picked up my copy from the library, so when I finish what I'm reading this will be next."

Me too!

Summer wrote: "I finished this one recently for another group and I really liked it. The premise was really interesting and the writing was pretty solid. I like the world building, I liked the characters, and I a..."

Glad to hear that Summer! I plan to start as soon as I finish The Master and Margarita

I’m already on chapter ten. Hmm it has a dystopian vibe to it... i dont really read dystopian. i was into it sometime ago but not now. But i think it will turn out as good story idk i have this feeling

I have just started to read this.

I've finally managed to locate a copy - the UK cover is quite different, so I kept failing to spot it!

I just finished the book this morning. Here are my initial thoughts (hidden in a spoiler, 'cause I'm not sure if you guys like open plot discussion in these threads :P):(view spoiler)[
- The form was easily digestible, broken into little first-person narratives with a standard intro about who is/isn't going to die today.
- The interweaving of characters' lives with each other was fun to discover as the story unfolded.
- The characters and the plot were all spectacular, and Silvera's writing is colorful, modern, unpretentious, and well-crafted.
- The romance aspect was well-done. I'd been hoping and patiently waiting for it to kick in, and when it finally did, I wasn't disappointed.
-Most of all, I really enjoyed the author's answer to the question that plagues one's mind (or did mine, anyway) while taking all this in: "Is one protagonist to blame for the other's untimely death?" Seeing as they each cheat death a couple of times in the course of the novel, and Mateo's and Rufus' deaths are consequences of their own individual circumstances, you can still feel satisfied (relatively speaking) with how it all plays out. Otherwise, the reader would've been left in Mateo's bedroom with Rufus' thoughts, alla "Am I the reason you're going to die?" (hide spoiler)]

Greg wrote: "I just finished the book this morning. Here are my initial thoughts (hidden in a spoiler, 'cause I'm not sure if you guys like open plot discussion in these threads :P):..."

I agree completely Greg! What do you think about the Sci-Fi meme, Would you like to be informed you have only 24 hours to live so you can live it up. Did it work for our protags?

I would have been interested in the fictional science that allowed such a thing to be possible, though not in this novel.

I found both Mateo and Rufus very appealing, though in much different ways.

Bill, the sci-fi premise is, what I interpreted as, a nice nod to Greek tragedy, and begs the question of the role of fate in our real lives. I imagine having such a thing in real life would cause a lot of mass hysteria at first before anyone could get a handle on it! But then, is there such a thing as fate? Only if the answer’s “yes” could we even fathom such a thing as DeathCast!

I'm about a third of the way in, not quite sure about it at this stage but I'll save any thoughts until I'm finished.

I was originally not going to join in with this group read because of the YA classification of the book. However, I am really glad that I gave it a try after Bill's comments to me.

I found the book easy to read and I was really drawn into the developing relationship between Mateo and Rufus and I wanted to see where this would go, even though the title is a massive spoiler. I also liked the interplay with the other characters, some major and some minor, whose paths crossed with them.

All in all this book really worked for me.

Andrew wrote: "I was originally not going to join in with this group read because of the YA classification of the book.

I just finished the book, I'm sitting here amazed at the effect it had on my emotions. I also wasn't expecting that in a young/adult work. I will definitely recommend this to readers I know who might not be aware of it.

I had slightly more mixed feelings about this one. I liked the concept, and I like Mateo - his social anxiety was well-done and gave him an effective journey through the book - and I enjoyed the romance when it eventually came together, but I wasn't quite so sure about Rufus. Something about him didn't ring quite true to me, though he was certainly likeable enough.

I thought the plotting was fairly well-interlinked and well-done in how all the characters came together, and the writing's mostly pretty good, although a couple of bits of dialogue didn't quite work for me, and I felt that the book sometimes repeated its central theme more often than it needed to.

I think my main issue, though, is that I wanted to see more done with the central idea - it has a lot of potential to be mined and explored and tested - but that would make for a rather different book, whereas I appreciate that this one's mostly about the central relationship.

Benjamin wrote: "...I think my main issue, though, is that I wanted to see more done with the central idea - it has a lot of potential to be mined and explored and tested ..."

That's what I meant by wanting to find more about the "fictional science'. It would have made the book more Sci-Fi than about young people facing death, as you said a much different book.

Can you be more specific about why Rufus bothered you?

Benjamin wrote: "...I think my main issue, though, is that I wanted to see more done with the central idea - it has a lot of potential to be mined and explored and tested ..."

That's what I meant by wanting to find more about the "fictional science'. It would have made the book more Sci-Fi than about young people facing death, as you said a much different book.

Can you be more specific about why Rufus bothered you?

I think, to me at least, he came across as more someone's vague idea of a street-savvy gang kid than an actually convincing example of one - not that I can claim any personal knowledge of that culture! He just didn't strike me as quite convincing, whereas Mateo's anxieties had more of an authentic ring to them.

Benjamin wrote: "I think, to me at least, he came across as more someone's vague idea of a street-savvy gang kid than an actually convincing example of one..."

Interesting! I actually thought Rufus was pretty well drawn and he reminded me a lot of the kids I grew up with: If you just looked at their behavior, they weren't exactly stellar people. But they often a lot of heart and caring that most people didn't see. I can see how that reads a little After School Special from central casting, though.

I thought the book had a good idea, but just didn’t do enough with the concept. The characters were likeable enough, but like the story, not challenging enough to make me go “wow” at any point. I gave the book 3 stars—a decent read, not enough to where I force it into the hands of other readers!

Benjamin wrote: "I think, to me at least, he came across as more someone's vague idea of a street-savvy gang kid than an actually convincing example of one - not that I can claim any personal knowledge of that cult..."

I didn't get the idea he was really part of a street gang, but just went after the one guy who was trespassing on his poontang.

Bill wrote: "I didn't get the idea he was really part of a street gang, but just went after the one guy... "

The Plutos seemed kind of borderline to me - not so much a criminal gang, but that kind of close-knit culture?

Bill wrote: "I didn't get the idea he was really part of a street gang, but just went after the one guy who was trespassing on his poontang. ..."

Could we maybe call her a girl and not his poontang? That's gross.

Could we maybe call her a girl and not his poontang? That's gross.

*applauds*

I just started a couple days ago, and last night I finished up part 1. It does go fast, a quick read.

At this very early stage, I kind of agree with you Benjamin that the Marco perspective is a little more authentic, though I don't dislike Rufus and there's a long way to go. Maybe it's because I don't feel much damage in Rufus yet, which is a little unusual for what he's been through? I can't put my finger on it yet, and I might still change my mind as I get further.

Bill, I definitely agree though that the Plutos aren't criminal - they're close knit and occupy the fringes of society in a gang-like way, but it did say this beatdown was the first thing like that Rufus had done.

The story really took off for me when Marco and Rufus start messaging. The author is very good with this sort of dialogue, I think.

What a great quote in the front flap for part 2: "A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."

Summer wrote: "If you just looked at their behavior, they weren't exactly stellar people. But they often a lot of heart and caring that most people didn't see...."

I like the way you put this Summer!

I have only skimmed the discussion, because I'm only about halfway through. I love this book so much so far! I was hesitant to read it, because I like happy endings, and the title implies it won't be, but so far I consider it well worth the read. Sometimes the slang gets to me (I'm listening on audible) but I think it's appropriate for the characters.

I keep thinking about whether knowing the date of your death is a good thing or a bad thing, and in what circumstances it's better...it's what whole age old debate of whether it's better to have cancer and say good bye or get hit by a bus and not suffer for months...something my high school friends and I used to debate.

Hi I’m late but i finished it. It took me long and I’m gonna tell u why. Despite of me being so emotionally unorganized that i couldnt focus on reading, the book had a dystopian vibe to it and to me that was such a turn off at first so i read it really slow. But also it was sad an made me feel like a useless human being.
Do i want this world to have death-cast? hell no. I felt like this whole thing takes human’s ability to choose away. Don’t u think if mateo didn’t move he would have stayed alive or if rufus paid attention he would’ve survived. He clearly gave up.

I am listening to this on Audible. I am finding their love unbelievable. Like, I didn't feel any tension or build up. It occurred to me that this could be because of the audible narration—I wonder, to those who read the book instead of listened—did you think it had sexual tension or chemistry?

Amy wrote: "Lara wrote: "I am listening to this on Audible. I am finding their love unbelievable. Like, I didn't feel any tension or build up. It occurred to me that this could be because of the audible narrat..."

I like the idea of it, and I want to believe it. I just wanted a bit more in terms of admiring glances or something I guess. I did notice that the book in general is sparse with physical description or interior motivation...maybe I'm not bringing enough imagination to it to fill in the details.

Amy wrote: "I read this book in one day and it was relatively enjoyable. I didn’t like Mateo at first because I found his narrative a little grating and Rufus’s stilted but I enjoyed Rufus’s attitude and confi..."

I'm about halfway through. I do kind of get your finding Rufus' narrative a little stilted Amy. Maybe it's all the slang usage that feels foreign to me as it does to you Lara, but it does feel a little bit off.

Aida, I am not sure I'd like death cast either - it would make the phone fairly terrifying. :)

I like it, but I don't love the book so far. It hasn't fully deepened or taken off for me yet.

Amy wrote: "I read this book in one day and it was relatively enjoyable. I didn’t like Mateo at first because I found his narrative a little grating and Rufus’s stilted but I enjoyed Rufus’s attitude and confi..."

I thought I wasn't secretly hoping they'd live—that I had accepted the premise was that they'd die...but apparently I was because when I got to the end I was bummed out. I wanted at least a romantic death of some sort. But i did really like the book.

Just started the final part, part 4. I'm warming up to the characters, but the book is still falling in the 'like but not love' category. I do find myself rooting for Rufus and Mateo to at least have their moment though. Not sure if they'll get it, but I hope so!

I can't stop thinking of this idea of a last friend; the idea appeals to me, depressing as it is. There's a charity "No One Dies Alone" in my area where people in hospice who have no relatives or friends left living ask for a volunteer to sit with them toward the end. I thought of joining it as a volunteer once, but I never quite had the courage. It's hard enough to know the right things to say with close long-time friends & relatives, much less a stranger.

I did join as a volunteer for Volunteer Action in Aging (VAA) though .. where homebound elderly request a weekly volunteer visitor through their social worker - weirdly, I guess I was sort of a 'Last Friend' for someone through that service; we were friends for a few years after I started seeing her before she passed away. I hope when I'm older that if everyone I know has passed away before me that some "Last Friend" will sit with me and talk with me. It's weird to think of .. I guess fairly morbid to think of actually. Sorry about that. :)

What does everyone think of the "Last Friend" app idea? If there was an app like this, would you use it?

It's interesting, as an adult I'm always sad that there isn't a friend app for adults that doesn't mean relationship! There are plenty of dating apps, but when I wanted to make more friends (I was one of only two employees at work, and had moved to a new town) I couldn't believe there was no sort of friend to friend thing. So at certain times in my adult life I would have checked it out for sure.

I do think that a last friend is a compassionate idea, and I agree with you that it would also be hard to do. I guess I also was a sort of last friend for someone once, but not through a service or anything. I became friends with someone in his last year of life, before he succumbed to AIDS. He didn't have anyone to drive him to the doctor, so I started doing that and hanging out with him. If he hadn't been sick, I don't think we would have been friends. I thought about volunteering with the local AIDS group to volunteer in the same way for other people with AIDS that had no family, but I couldn't bring myself to go through it all over again. I've always been ashamed of myself for that.
Wow, this is an upper of a comment. I'm sorry.

Greg wrote: "...I hope when I'm older that if everyone I know has passed away before me that some "Last Friend" will sit with me and talk with me. ..."

Chris and I have been discussing which of us we'd like to die first. Generally we agree we'd like to go together, but that is unlikely. So we each hope we'd go first so we wouldn't have to deal or be alone. They we worry about the effect of that on the other and it gets confusing. It's not so weird anymore, esp hearing about celebs or others we know our age checking out.

A last friend would definitely help me deal with the loss of a spouse, esp since my support system people are all over the country.

An app? I'd probably use it. There is Dealing with grief? There’s an app for that This is a site not an app. Search for Grief in an app store and there a number of apps.

I like the idea of a Last Friend and if it existed, that’s something I’d like to do. I don’t think we do a good job in the U.S. when it comes to talking about or preparing people for death, but it seems like the book’s universe changed positively because of the ubiquity of Death Cast. If death was more a part of our everyday lives, we’d probably have a better handle on it.

And thanks for posting about the No One Dies Alone programs. I hadn’t heard about this wand they sound so valuable.

So I just came across this book on Goodreads, which I haven't read:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3...

But the premise is that people know they are going to die, and then go around getting revenge and killing people. I thought it was a similar premise, but took an altogether different (and darker) track. In Silvera's world, people are focused on creating memories and connecting. I'm now wondering which is more likely.

Oh wow. That seems like a really interesting (and dark) premise.

I'd like to believe more would focus on making memories / connecting Lara!

anyone wanna buddy read this book? :)

I discovered this book at summer camp and have since wanted to buy it. This seems like the perfect excuse >:)

(My previous comment is very late)