Existential Book Club discussion

Some people say that the definition of "dying" is broader than just "being very & irreversibly ill for a certain period before you die". If you think of the definition of "dying" as "fading out of life" then it might mean that we are all dying since the day we are born.

Once you've began your living process, it's moving onwards, and that action of going through life, consuming life, means you have less and less of it as you go – that means you're dying!

Now I'm not trying to be a pessimist. and please excuse me if you find this topic a bit morbid... I'm just thinking: if we take that fragility of life in to account and live with its presence, maybe it would encourage us to live more deeply and make the most out of every moment.

What do you think?
Do you see dying as a continual process that starts at birth or does it only relate to the last period of life – when vitality starts to fade?

Do you see dying as a continual process that starts at birth or does it only relate to the last period of life – when vitality starts to fade?

Freud reckons we all have the death instinct - Thanatos. It is the slow realisation that death is coming, and even a welcome call for some. I agree with Freud. (Sitting on the metro one can see some people are already dead!)

Now I'm not trying to be a pessimist. and please excuse me if you find this topic a bit morbid.

Not at all. Heidegger thinks we only live authentically when we have fully realised the notion of death. I agree.

Thank you Jhon,

"Sitting on the metro one can see some people are already dead!"
How so sadly true…

Maybe people are subconsciously afraid of getting attached to their lives (the more we live well and love living, the more painful it is to acknowledge that life is finite)
or as Yalom said "some refuse the loan of life to avoid the debt of death”.

I also agree that accepting the notion of death can help us live more authentically, but (a) the notion of death is terrifying and depressing to most people so accepting it is not easy (b) does "authentically" mean "happier/better" or just "more emphasized" or "with greater awareness"?
For example, if we struggle with a negative experience (like grief) in an authentic way, does that lessen our sorrow? Or just gives us a little sense of order about what is going on. (Meaning that we acknowledge the pain of grief, we don't deny or escape it… and we authentically feel pain)

Thank you Armando,

I liked the term "absurdity of human existence". – We enter this life with no instructions on what it is and how to live it and so, we make up our own meaning, and our happiness depends on how strongly we manage to BELIEVE in that meaning.
Now, those who believe strongly don't need to use reason… but those with weak belief have to use reason, because they really want to KNOW that their meaning is true. And that's also part of the absurd – the more you try to prove it's true – the more you are at risk of finding that it's false.

And that leads me to think maybe reason is indeed not a good tool for understand life with (as it, maybe we should use emotions instead? (Though I guess that a swirl of emotions could lead to the same chaotic feeling we get from lack of understanding).

"What is your definition of dying?" Loss of everything we know. Loss of body, loss of choices, loss of possessions and everyone we know. Yes, there is a real death. Even if there is "something else after."

thank you, John

Indeed! It is the loss of anything that is defined "the self" or belongs to it.

I think the saddest think about losing someone to death is that each person is unique and irreplaceable (due to all this things which made him/her themselves)

"Even if there is "something else after." - that's very interesting because if one moves on to an "afterlife" but he/she are not their usual known self - is that the continuation of life (in another form)?
That would make death just the middle of the road, not the end of it...

Recently, I have been frequenting a local "death group". We discuss all aspects of death and dying. Much of our discussions are practical - about making wills and so on. But we also talk about the approach of death and how we can adjust to it.

Hi John, how are you?

"the approach of death and how we can adjust to it" - that sounds very interesting. Can you explain some more?

So far, I found Irvin Yalom's approach to death very appealing...
What exactly is this "death group"?

Hi Sivan and John,

Great questions. From what I understand the answers to your questions, Sivan, about whether we are dying our entire life or just towards the end are no and no.

Your questions are to assume the definition of death accurately depicts the true nature of life. The definition(s) of death and dying were created assuming that life ceases to exist at the time one's heart stops beating. Likewise, it postulates that we are essentially these bodies.

However, it's been proven that all things in life are energy and that energy never dies. Energy changes form but never ceases to exist. Therefore, all we do when we exit these bodies are 'shed' them. We go on living and miss not one beat. The definitions of the words death and dying are, therefore, illusions. They are, in fact, one of Earth’s most destructive misconceptions. (That is, after the definition of “God.”)

My definition, John, of what it is to die is to exit Earth and be free and whole once again. When we exit Earth, we are free to be who we essentially are, no longer confined to these bodies and a prisoner to our programmed cranial brains. Not to mention, we’re home with all our memory back. The closest I believe we come to “death,” is what happens when we forget all this because of the amnesia.