Homer's The Odyssey, translated by Emily Wilson discussion

This is a thread for members to post links to their reviews of Emily Wilson's translation of The Odyssey. Reviews of other translations also welcome here, as are reviews of works that provide background or context for The Odyssey, or are related in any way to classical studies and the ancient world.

Kris,
Did you mean our own reviews or professional reviews?

Since I joined goodreads about two years ago, I have been posting reviews of books I read because it's the only way I can remember what I've read! I've got a couple of book reviews that are relevant to this thread, but I hesitate to post them in case you want professional reviews only.

Hi Tamara: I meant reviews written by group members -- I think it's great for members to share their reviews. It's another way to inform our discussions. So please do post links to your reviews!

Thanks, Kris. Here they are:

Classical Literature: An Epic Journey from Homer to Virgil and Beyond by Richard Jenkyns
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

The Iliad: A New Translation by Caroline Alexander
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

The Lost Books of The Odyssey by Zachary Mason
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

And if anyone is interested in retellings, one of the best novels I read all year was Ransom by David Malouf about Priam's meeting with Achilles to retrieve Hektor's body.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I also read Why Homer Matters by Adam Nicolson. I must have read it before I started writing book reviews, so I don't remember it other than that I enjoyed it. (The memory fadeth fast!) I might re-read it since you mentioned it in another thread.

I love mythology, especially Greek mythology, and especially anything Homer. So I'm hoping others will post their reviews because I would love to get their take on relevant books so I can expand my reading list in this area.
Thanks.

Tamara wrote: "Thanks, Kris. Here they are:..."

Thanks for posting these links, Tamara! As you know I'm also a big fan of Ransom.

Whoa, I feel taken aback that I did not know about Caroline Alexander's translation of The Iliad. Emily Wilson seems like such a groundbreaker, and is, but I hadn't realized a woman had already translated The Iliad. I have to say I totally love the Iliad. Even the catalog of ships. I will be buying this translation now.

Tamara wrote: "Thanks, Kris. Here they are:

Classical Literature: An Epic Journey from Homer to Virgil and Beyond by Richard Jenkyns
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show......"

Tamara, I heartily agree with your inclusion of Ransom. I would also add The Song of Achilles byMadeline Miller.

Regarding Caroline Alexander, Prior to her translation of The Iliad, consider her non-fiction work The War That Killed Achilles: The True Story Of Homer's Iliad And The Trojan War.

Lawyer wrote: "Regarding Caroline Alexander, Prior to her translation of The Iliad, consider her non-fiction work The War That Killed Achilles: The True Story Of Homer's Iliad And The Trojan War. .."

Lawyer, thanks for the reminder about Alexander's The War that Killed Achilles. I knew about it but for whatever reason had forgotten to add it to my list. Your message prompted me to include it.

I've read Miller's Song of Achilles and although I enjoyed it, I didn't think it was nearly as strong as Ransom.

Thanks, again.

Great discussion and recommendations here -- thanks so much for posting reviews too. I'm hoping to be able to read them soon, and to add more books to our group shelves.

There is an amazing reading list under construction here. I have a copy of Why Homer Matters on my shelf, unread. 2018 is looking to be quite a classical year!

I finished War Music: An Account of Homer's Iliad by Christopher Logue. I thought it was wonderful.

My review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Tamara wrote: "I finished War Music: An Account of Homer's Iliad by Christopher Logue. I thought it was wonderful.

My review:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show..."

This sounds really good. I think I should wait until I read the original since it's been far too long. Then I'll be better able to see the comparisons.

My review of the Fagles' translation isn't too deep, but then, neither am I:

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Sue wrote: "This sounds really good. I think I should wait until I read the original since it's been far too long. Then I'll be better able to see the comparisons. ."

That's a good idea. You'll have a much better appreciation of it when you see how he plays with the original.

Thanks Tamara.

I am gushing all over this incredible book.

I just finished An Odyssey: A Father, a Son, and an Epic by Daniel Mendelsohn. It is a brilliant combination of critical analysis of Homer's Odyssey, a family memoir, and a travelogue.

In the process of conducting a seminar on Homer's Odyssey, Mendelsohn interrogates his own relationship with his father. I thought it was an amazing book and gave it 5 stars.

My review on goodreads
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I'm so excited that you had this reaction to Mendelsohn's book, Tamara. It's been on my to-read list. Will definitely read it soon.

Kris, I just loved it! Since it is only the second book I've read this year, I can safely say it is the best book I've read all year :)

Your review expresses your enthusiasm well, Tamara. I'm looking forward to this one too.

I think I must be on some sort of Homer binge. I've just finished another great book on Homer's Iliad.
The War That Killed Achilles: The True Story of Homer's Iliad and the Trojan War by Caroline Alexander.

My review
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

From your review this sounds like another excellent book, Tamara. I'm adding it to my list (if I haven't already).

I really enjoyed Who Killed Homer: The Demise of Classical Education and the Recovery of Greek Wisdom by Victor Davis Hanson when I read it a few years ago. It is more about classical studies overall, but it is quite interesting. Has anybody here read it?

Haaze wrote: "I really enjoyed Who Killed Homer: The Demise of Classical Education and the Recovery of Greek Wisdom by Victor Davis Hanson when I read it a few years ago. It is more ..."

I haven't read it. But it looks interesting. I'm adding it to my ever expanding gotta read list.
Thanks for the recommendation.

Tamara wrote: "I'm adding it to my ever expanding gotta read list."

Hmm, yes, the TBR piles...

*looks nervously around the room*

Another book added to the list!

It is actually quite inspiring. As one reads it one wants to pack up and join a classical studies program! :P

Haaze wrote: "It is actually quite inspiring. As one reads it one wants to pack up and join a classical studies program! :P"

That's exactly how I feel!

I was a professor of English for a number of years before moving to administration. I retired 5 years ago.

I keep thinking I want to go back to school to study anthropology or archaeology or classical studies. I also want to learn to read Egyptian hieroglyphics. And then there are several poems in English I want to memorize. And then there's the recording from the Epic of Gilgamesh in ancient Babylonian from the University of London. I have it book marked and keep meaning to memorize it so I can conjure up the words at a moment's notice. Wouldn't it be amazing to be able to recite selections from Gilgamesh in the ancient Babylonian?

Decisions, decisions, decisions. I can't make up my mind what I want to be when I grow up!

Meanwhile, I'm just going to read and read and read.

I like the way you think, Tamara!!!

You've reminded me, The Epic of Gilgamesh is on my list too. And I do want to read more classical works, but then Pepys' diary is beckoning too. So many books of so many eras.

Sue wrote: "You've reminded me, The Epic of Gilgamesh is on my list too. And I do want to read more classical works, but then Pepys' diary is beckoning too. So many books of so many eras."

Sue, if you want to read The Epic of Gilgamesh, I highly recommend the Stephen Mitchell translation. Gilgamesh: A New English Version

I agree - Mitchell's translation was smooth and flowing, but there are more scholarly competitors.... ;-)
Mitchell seems more like a craftsman that sculpts previous translations into "smoother" English. It would make sense to read a version written by a person that can actually read the original clay tables!

Haaze wrote: "I agree - Mitchell's translation was smooth and flowing, but there are more scholarly competitors.... ;-)
Mitchell seems more like a craftsman that sculpts previous translations into "smoother" Eng..."

The Epic of Gilgamesh is one of those stories I have had to revisit in several versions across the years, from scholarly to cartoon to audio. I've not looked closely, but my impression is the story has shifted as archeological work has revealed more tablets? Anyone know if that is true, or just faulty memory on my part, or....?

Incidentally, the cartoon version was in a collection of classics done in that format, and surprisingly was one of the better versions I recall now and reinforced/amplified by later encounters in more traditional format. I'd have to do some searching to reconstruct its name; I don't think I kept a record at the time.

Lily wrote: "I've not looked closely, but my impression is the story has shifted as archeological work has revealed more tablets? "

If I recall correctly it is very complex with several different versions from different time periods - some with overlaps and others extremely fragmented. Occasionally archaeology turns up a new fragment and thereby adding another piece to the story. It is quite a puzzle and perhaps that is why it is so enticing in its many versions? I would love to check out the cartoon version you are referring to, Lily! :)

Haaze wrote: "I agree - Mitchell's translation was smooth and flowing, but there are more scholarly competitors.... ;-)
Mitchell seems more like a craftsman that sculpts previous translations into "smoother" Eng..."

Who would you recommend for this, Haaze?

Tamara wrote: "Sue wrote: "You've reminded me, The Epic of Gilgamesh is on my list too. And I do want to read more classical works, but then Pepys' diary is beckoning too. So many books of so many eras."

Sue, if..."

That's the version I bought and have waiting on my shelf.

Lily wrote: "Haaze wrote: "I agree - Mitchell's translation was smooth and flowing, but there are more scholarly competitors.... ;-)
Mitchell seems more like a craftsman that sculpts previous translations into ..."

I think I saw excerpts from the cartoon version once purely by chance on TV which may be what got me interested in reading this again. I believe I read at least some of this back in my college days but that was almost 50 years ago now so I remember nothing of it and I'm sure new discoveries have been made.

I notice I have also kept my old copy of Lattimore's Hesiod which sold way back then (hardcover) for $3.95.

I've just reviewed E. R. Dodds, The Greeks and the Irrational, which I first read as an undergraduate majoring in philosophy, some forty years ago. The book has gone down in my estimation, for the reasons I describe here, but it does offer a glimpse into the intellectual fads of the postwar era.

Also, this is a great thread! I have added most of the books under discussion to my "To Read" list. So glad to be a member of this group!

My review of Emily Wilson's Odyssey: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

A marvelous thread indeed!

Alexander's "War That Killed Achilles" was incredibly informative. "She was, as I recall, a fan of the Lattimore Illiad translation.) But had not heard of the Nicolson or the Hanson. So - yes - the TBR stack grows ever heavenward. Thank you to the group members who suggested them!

A digression, but Nicolson's "Seize the Fire" is hands - down the best book about the Battle of Trafalgar, IMHO. So...I'm eager to read his work on Homer!

Gregg wrote: "...Alexander's "War That Killed Achilles" was incredibly informative. "She was, as I recall, a fan of the Lattimore Illiad translation.) ..."

I wonder what drove her to try a hand at her own translation.
Caroline Alexander -- See list of books.

Tamara wrote: "I am gushing all over this incredible book.

I just finished An Odyssey: A Father, a Son, and an Epic by Daniel Mendelsohn. It is a brilliant combination of critical ..."

Yes, i thought it was brilliant too, have still not had time to write a review, but will get there!

I read Omeros by Derek Walcott, a complex epic poem in seven books. It's not a retelling of Homer's works although the characters are given Homeric names and frequently merge with their Homeric counterparts. The different narrative threads weave in an out with shifts in time and location.
It's quite a challenge to figure out who, when, where, and what is happening. But what blew my mind was the poetry. Absolutely stunning.

My review
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I hear the call of the library wanting its books back, not quite a Siren's song...my review

Of less interest: in search of the Trojan war, The Decipherment of Linear B, Schliemann Of Troy, Alberto Manguel's biography of the Iliad and Odyssey

More relevant: Ancient Greek Literature

I finished Circe by Madeline Miller. I found the portrayal of Circe disappointing and unlike the Circe of the Odyssey.
My review
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

"His lies were like the truth." Five stars are for the lovely rhythmic English in Emily Wilson's fluent translation (Homer is beyond stars). I read her translation twice, once for the content, and again for the poetry. It's all about style, hers is simple on the surface, a clear window that reveals the multiple layers of meaning in the text...starting with line one: "Tell me about a complicated man." "Complicated" is a simple word in itself, but warns the reader that Odysseus will not be one dimensional like Paul Bunyan. Odysseus is called "the lord of lies" just before he tells the truth of his story to strangers in Book 9"I am Odysseus, Laerte's son." Then in book 14, in disguise, he claims to hate liars, but goes on to tell the biggest whoppers to his slave who may or may not recognize him after 20 years absence: "Proudly I say, I come from spacious Crete." We may be dealing with a bronze age joke here. Since people from Crete, like Epimenides, are known to have said honestly or not that all Cretans are liars, leaving the paradox open. Mercifully, Wilson's introduction while helpful is succinct. No need to belabor the oceans of Homer scholarship that have accumulated over the past couple thousand years, starting with scholars in ancient Alexandria. Wilson makes it clear we do not know who the author or authors were, nor when it was composed, nor when it was first written down, nor how the text became standardized. She does point out, usefully, that there is no mention of reading or writing anywhere in the entire epic. The references to bards have them singing from memory. (The Old Testament in contrast does have many mentions of reading and writing, including by women.) She points out that her translation tries to be literal. If the Greek word is for a female slave, it's a female slave, not a "servant." And she avoids high flying rhetoric, since the Greek used is apparently a concise rhythmic narrative style, definitely not the kind of language ever employed in ordinary speech, but not ornate or grandiose either. There is such simple joy in story telling, even or especially the tragic stories: "But let us, you and I, sit in my cottage over food and wine, and take some joy in hearing how much pain we each have suffered." The central emotion is longing for home: "the worst thing humans suffer is homelessness." When Odysseus and Penelope are finally reunited after 20 years they probably recognize each other, but she makes him prove who he is and win her all over again. He tells her "my homeland is Crete." But "His lies were like the truth." After they test each other, and each passes every test, and after they have enjoyed making love in bed he built for them decades earlier, then they "shared another pleasure - telling stories."

Wonderful synopsis, Elena. I think at some point I would like to read Wilson’s Odyssey just for the poetry too. I had such a sense of it on my first read, but was also looking for meaning and differences from other translations. Reading it just for itself would be a pleasure.

I'm only about 50 pages into Emily's translation ... it seems quite a bit more simple than my Robert Fitzgerald translation.

I adore some of the passages for how she translated the fingers of the dawn, it reminds me of fallopian tubes and renewing life for some reason.

The majority of her language just doesn't have the poetic feeling of Fitzgerald's. Perhaps hers is more beautiful for the passages that include women rather than as a translation as a whole?

Totally missed the action here, but hey, better late than never. Here goes: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I read another re-telling of a myth. This time it was Ithaca: A Novel of Homer's Odyssey by Patrick Dillon, told mostly from Telemachus' perspective.
Disappointing--mainly because of inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

My review: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Greetings anyone still there!

Having stumbled across this group (and Goodreads generally) only recently, and liked reading the original discussions, and begun posting some thoughts, Lyn Elliot and Sue were kind enough to post that they were reading them.

Also, I notice that after I joined this group recently, I was one of 199 members; there are now 201, so a couple of people must only very recently have joined or rejoined.

So, in hope this is an appropriate place to mention them, my thoughts about 3 other books related to this group and its subject, the one I have most to say about taking up the rest of this post, the other two in a separate post to keep length manageable.

Emily Wilson's translation of Homer's other epic, the Iliad, is now published and on sale, even if it has not yet reached my local Waterstones.

Within the last week or so, reviews and articles about it have appeared in many publications that can be read on the internet. These include an article by the translator herself for the Daily Telegraph, and favourable reviews in the Guardian, New York Times, Washington Post and Spectator. From the last of these, by poet and classicist AE Stallings (female), I learn that in Ancient times it was customary for those performing Homer's poems for an audience to dress up for it. Traditionally, they wore a blue crown (for the colour of the sea) to recite the Odyssey, and a red crown (blood!) for the Iliad. There is also an interview with Emily Wilson in 'Esquire', from which I learn that the learned Professor has at least 4 tattoos, all with a Greek Mythology theme, including 2 of Achilles' horses from the Iliad. I don't know where on her body and that's possibly not my business.

Of course, you can't please everyone. There is a much less positive review on the 'Compact' website, whose authoress, employing suitably Homeric metaphors, complains that Emily W 'drags her translation behind her chariot' and 'sacks' Homer, and lets too much colloquialism and her own modern liberal attitudes get into her translation, obscuring the original poem.

Although, as I have said, the Spectator review is very favourable, the comments posted below it by Spectator readers who had read Emily Wilson's Odyssey, and/or articles by her about translating Homer, are mostly hostile, for the same reasons as the Compact review above, and because Emily W has been described, and I think described herself, as a 'feminist', and is therefore viewed with suspicion.

There are indeed lectures by and interviews with Professor Wilson on YouTube from within the past few years in which she has used some of the Critical Race Theory / leftie jargon that I understand has become trendy or compulsory within academia lately: acknowledging her 'white privilege'; detecting 'colonialism' in the Odyssey and treating that as a Bad Thing; and using the less clear and more long-winded but politically correct terms 'enslavers' and 'enslaved people' for masters and slaves.

Personally, I am so right-wing I am almost a vampire, so all this ought to make me feel dubious about her work.

However, Professor Wilson is a sufficiently intelligent person, and good translator, to judge by her Odyssey, that I doubt she would let herself become completely the prisoner of an ideology. I shall be very surprised if what she gives us is simply 'The Iliad by Robyn Di Angelo' and am definitely prepared to give her new translation a chance.

The beginning of the Audiobook version of her Iliad, read by American actress (mainly theatre) and singer Audra Macdonald may be sampled on Amazon, and it sounds really good, definitely making an impact.

On the other hand, reviews indicate that the book version has about 100 pages of Emily Wilson's Introduction and notes; I don't know how much, if any, of these are included in the Audiobook, but I am sure you lose many of them.

Thanks for the info on Wilson’s translation of the Iliad, Tim. Not sure when I will get to it as I am overloaded with reading now, but I plan to eventually.