Homer's The Odyssey, translated by Emily Wilson discussion

This thread is for discussion of Book 8 of The Iliad.

Beautiful passages at the end of this stormy and bloody book:

Mitchell:
And they in high confidence between the lines of battle553
set down the night long, and their many fires blazed.
As when in heaven stars about the bright moon
shine conspicuous, when the upper air turns windless,
and all the peaks and jutting cliffs are shown,
and valleys, and from heaven above the boundless bright air is rent with light
and all the stars are seen, and the shepherd’s heart rejoices,
so between the ships and streams of Xanthos560
in such multitude shone the watchfires of the Trojans’ burning, before Ilion.
A thousand fires were burning on the plain, and by each one
sat fifty men in the glow of fire’s gleaming;
and the horses munched their white barley and their grain
standing beside their chariots as they awaited Dawn on her fair throne.

Fagles:
And so their spirits soared
as they took positions down the passageways of battle
all night long, and the watchfires blazed among them.
Hundreds strong, as stars in the night sky glittering
round the moon’s brilliance blaze in all their glory
when the air falls to a sudden, windless calm . . .
all the lookout peaks stand out and the jutting cliffs
and the steep ravines and down from the high heavens bursts
the boundless bright air and all the stars shine clear
and the shepherd’s heart exults—so many fires burned
between the ships and the Xanthus’ whirling rapids
set by the men of Troy, bright against their walls.
A thousand fires were burning there on the plain
and beside each fire sat fifty fighting men
poised in the leaping blaze, and champing oats
and glistening barley, stationed by their chariots,
stallions waited for Dawn to mount her glowing throne.

I am constantly struck by the beauty, the power and the poetry of the Iliad during this re-reading, Kris. Perhaps it's the translation or maybe it's my place in life, but I am finding this an engrossing read, more and more so as I get deeper into it. Some books are wasted on the young---I increasingly believe! (at least this one when I was young)

I agree with you, Sue. I think this is such a rich text, and its poetry also resonates with me more now than when I was younger. I also think that we live in such a violent time that Homer's questioning of the value of honor against the violence and human losses of war seems especially powerful to me during this reading.

I've been wondering whether I was turned off the entire concept of an epic poem on war when I was in college because of the Vietnam War and the rapidly growing anti-war movement around the colleges in the Boston area at the end of the 1960s. Of course the anti-war elements of this poem itself either weren't discussed or I missed the discussion.

This is such a perfect poem/story for our time. What is a leader? What is a hero (if he doesn't have powers bestowed by gods)? So many thoughts about power, sacrifice, nobility, etc. And this just gets better and better as it goes.

After reading Caroline Alexander's The War That Killed Achilles: The True Story of Homer's Iliad and the Trojan War, I developed a greater appreciation for the Iliad. Alexander's reading brought out subtleties and nuances in the text I had not noticed before.

I followed that by reading The Watch by Joydeep Roy-Bhattacharya. It is based on Antigone but is situated at an isolated American outpost in Afghanistan.

I was struck by the similarity of themes: characters who question leadership and the decision-makers; characters who join the fight for a whole host of reasons, few of which have anything to do with belief in a just cause; the same sense of isolation; soldiers/warriors who just want to go home, etc. etc. And just as Homer gives us glimpses of happier, peaceful times in the midst of the horror and bloodshed, the characters in the novel have flashbacks of home and family. The similarities were amazing.

I have always loved Homer's Odyssey. But after reading Alexander's book and The Watch, I have developed a much greater appreciation for the Iliad. I used to dismiss it as a bunch of chest-thumping men reveling in the bloodiness of war. But it is really not about that at all. It is about the psychology of war and its impact on those who fight and those who are caught in its crosshairs.

It seems as if the more things change, the more they stay the same.

This is my review of The Watch in case any of you want to read about it.
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Tamara wrote: "...I used to dismiss it as a bunch of chest-thumping men reveling in the bloodiness of war. But it is really not about that at all. ..."

I wish we could get more to see those aspects of the Iliad. Thx for saying them here, Tamara. I think it took me until my second read in my sixties to realize the grandeur of this book and how deeply it touches the humane. While I am wary of the proverb about "the more things change," I do wonder how we bring humankind to recognize that we have choices about repeating history. Maybe that can be an especial challenge for those that may not historically have seen their responsibilities for holding up their half of the world so much as populating it. (And I may come back and retract that last sentence when I am more awake. But we need to learn from the observations of history as well as from those of our laboratories.)

Lily and Tamara, thanks for continuing this conversation. I agree that more should read The Iliad as adults (I'm in my 60s too) and also that commentators should attend to these themes when teaching it to younger readers. Perhaps they do now.

I do plan to read Alexander's book and will be looking into the other book mentioned.

The Iliad is so different from what I had expected, so much fuller, richer. Much to my surprise, I am finding that this is possibly going to be a fuller reading experience than the Odyssey.

Sue wrote: "I am finding that this is possibly going to be a fuller reading experience than the Odyssey..."

Sue -- hang on. I believe Tamara and Kris and perhaps others, including Emily Wilson, will bring special expertise to the Odyssey. These two Homeric epics are each magnificent, limitlessly mine able pieces of literature imho.

Lily wrote: "Sue wrote: "I am finding that this is possibly going to be a fuller reading experience than the Odyssey..."

Sue -- hang on. I believe Tamara and Kris and perhaps others, including Emily Wilson, wi..."

I think it is highly debatable that tamara is capable of bringing "special expertise" to the Odyssey. What she will bring is gushing enthusiasm, buckets of passion, and a whole cart load of praise :)

Tamara wrote: "I think it is highly debatable that tamara is capable of bringing "special expertise" to the Odyssey. What she will bring is gushing enthusiasm, buckets of passion, and a whole cart load of praise :) ."

As well as a valuable perspective that will open up new nuances and depth to our reading!

Sorry for not coming back to this discussion sooner. Work has been particularly crazy, which is likely to continue for the next few weeks.

Sue, I suspect that you will find The Odyssey just as rich a reading experience as The Iliad. There are themes in it that resonate just as much with contemporary concerns -- for example, exile and homecoming. For now, though it's wonderful that you are having such a rewarding experience with The Iliad. I suspect it will lead to your also loving contemporary takes on it, such as Alice Oswald's Memorial: A Version of Homer's Iliad and Christopher Logue's War Music: An Account of Homer's Iliad. It's going to be wonderful to explore them with you!

And Tamara, thanks for drawing my attention to The Watch. I'm planning to read it sometime this year, and I am hoping to start reading Alexander tonight. Your reviews have enriched my reading lists!

And Lily, I'm looking forward to your perceptive comments and insights as we move into The Odyssey, just as you have enriched my reading of The Iliad. Thank you!

I'm very thankful that the three of you are in this group!

Tamara wrote: "I think it is highly debatable that tamara is capable of bringing "special expertise" to the Odyssey. What she will bring is gushing enthusiasm, buckets of passion, and a whole cart load of praise :)..."

Your modesty becomes you, Tamara.

And a less enthusiastic self looks at the world tonight, perhaps most influenced by having spent some time today with the Economist. I know not the tasks in the bigger world that lie ahead. They may well test the core of what it means to be human.

Thanks to you all for your encouragement re the upcoming read of the Odyssey. As you point out, with this new translation, these new related readings, and the great discussions in this group, I have no doubt that I will discover new depths that I didn't plumb on my reading of a few years ago. Then I re-appreciated the poetry itself. Now I'll go for even more.

Lily, Tamara and Kris, I'm very much looking forward to all the coming discussions and the total experience.