The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Discussion for The Machine Stops being read as a companion to the January read of A Room with a View by E.M. Forster.

READING SCHEDULE
January 1 through January 28.

AVAILABILITY
wikisourse, click on the chapters heading to open the text.

This is available in print form, usually in short story compilations, at the library and on hoopla.com if your local library uses that service.

I haven't found a place to download this story (that works). Please feel free to post the information if you have a source.

BACKGROUND
"The Machine Stops" is a science fiction short story (12,300 words) by E. M. Forster. Initial published in The Oxford and Cambridge Review (November 1909), the story was republished in Forster's The Eternal Moment and Other Stories in 1928. After being voted one of the best novellas up to 1965, it was included that same year in the populist anthology Modern Short Stories. In 1973 it was also included in The Science Fiction Hall of Fame, Volume Two.

The story, set in a world where humanity lives underground and relies on a giant machine to provide their needs, predicted technologies such as instant messaging and the Internet.

I am getting a copy from our public library and look forward to reading this story.

I was able to download a copy from amazon for kindle. Price in US was $2.99

here's a free copy of this interesting story:

http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/praj...

if you want to download it, what I did was press Print for the webpage, and an option for Save as PDF came up. and so I saved it. I'm on a PC.

I thought it was a compelling story and certainly the ideas were very much ahead of their time.

I remember reading this in high school. I'm going to re-read it and join in on the discussion. It will be an interesting discussion, there will be several comparisons to technology today.

We are a bit late starting this discussion. My apologies. Discussion will be started soon.

I loved this short story!! I'm excited for the discussions....

Cami wrote: "I loved this short story!! I'm excited for the discussions...."

I need to catch up a bit here before I can read it.

Gem, who was to lead this discussion is ill. Rosemarie has kindly agreed to take this on. She will be posting some time after this weekend. Again, our apologies for the delay.

Since this is a short story I will be commenting one chapter at a time, using the same thread for each chapter.

In chapter 1, we are introduced to a society that has some similarites with present-day society, but many differences too.
What are some of the similarities?

Vashanti lives in her own room deep underground and dislikes physical encounters and leaving her home.
How does she respond when her son asks to see her in person?

How is communication impacted if the nuances are not present?

The room has an "isolate" function. Do you think that the use of this term is ironic, since everyone is already living physically apart from others?

The only book in the room is the user's manual for the Machine.
What do you think is the actual purpose of the book?

The phrase "No ideas here" is used more than once towards the end of chapter 1. How does this phrase sum up the society in this story?

Chapter 2

Vashanti visits her son Kuno.

He tells her he is threatened with homelessness. Why?

What phrase does Kuno use that the Machine would consider blasphemy?

What are those white worms?

In Chapter 3, the machine stops.

What message is the author conveying with this ending?

Is he giving us a warning?

I was looking at how Forster did at predicting the future. In a way, it has a steampunk vibe to it, in the importance of mechanical (though electrical) parts. And it's kind of charming that although light, music, etc. are built-in, the instructions are all in a physical book.

Interestingly, the sense of isolation as compared to our own society seems more accurate now than it would have 30 years ago. People don't need to leave home to access information, entertainment, and connection (of a sort) to each other. Everyone (except Kuno) prefers the virtual to the real. In a way, that happens today with people connecting online and being on their smartphones even when in the same physical room as others. Soon virtual reality will be available to everyone. Instead of going to a national park, ocean or mountains, it will come to you. Although we haven't yet evolved to be weak, I just read about myopia being much more prevalent in children because they spend so much time on devices and little out in the sun looking at longer distances.

(Of course, without our own equivalent of the Machine, this group wouldn't be in existence!)

We never learn who is controlling or fixing the Machine. Complaints just go to an anonymous committee. And we don't know if someone sabotaged the machine (Kuno?) or if it just broke down.

What do you think of the idea of original information being less valued than that filtered through many other people's views? Kind of like retweeting and posting on Facebook. It seems to declare that there is no truth. Only certain things are "interesting ideas" - nothing that Vashti sees from the plane, like that country of "no ideas", Greece.

Robin wrote: "I was looking at how Forster did at predicting the future. In a way, it has a steampunk vibe to it, in the importance of mechanical (though electrical) parts. And it's kind of charming that althoug..."
I think this short story is eerily relevant. We are becoming more and more isolated from one another. "Why call when I can text?" may soon become "Why visit when I can text or visit with VR?" for people and places. Why go to the Grand Canyon when I can see it all through VR goggles? Why visit Grandma when I can see her on FaceTime? Don't get me wrong, these options are great when you physically can't visit people or places, I just worry that it will become the default, regardless of circumstances.
I felt like the break down of the machine was just the system failing over time. Everyone looked upon the Machine as a god, instead of realizing they had created it and therefore it depended on them, not the other way around. So, after many years of neglect, the system eventually "died". That's my take on it anyway.
I would have loved this short story to be a full length novel and really get to know the characters, including the Machine, and especially the "homeless" who were living on the surface in hiding.
The idea of information only being communicated by passing it down is terrifying. No first hand experience is encouraged. Which really, feels a bit like the internet to me sometimes; Like people getting news from Facebook. They are hearing what other people think instead of trying to learn anything first hand and making up their own minds.
I wonder what Forster would think if he could see us now!!

Everything I'd want to say about the story is pretty much within Cami's post. Loved your thoughts on this.

I think that those who were there to look after the machine were so focussed on their specific task that no one actually knew how the Machine worked. Independent thought and action were actively discouraged, or even punished by Homelessness.
It occurred to me that the air on the surface may have been breathable again, but no one knew, except the Homeless who may have survived up there.

I started this, but alas ended up dragged into work. I found it a great read, and hope to be able to sit down and focus on it. It was amazing to me how closely it resembles our times with technology. How we are connected yet isolated. We each, they say, live in our own bubbleby clicking like or investigating a few things on the internet. Yet it’s very easy to avoid other people’s opinions, beliefs, and interests.

I have no idea whether or not I'll get round to reading and/or commenting on this one as my GR attendance rate lately is v erratic.

But I just wanted to say that I'm really glad the Short Story Salon is getting going again. Hooray!

Pip wrote: "I have no idea whether or not I'll get round to reading and/or commenting on this one as my GR attendance rate lately is v erratic.

But I just wanted to say that I'm really glad the Short Storyline Sa..."

Thanks Pip. We are going to try to have a short story each month by the same author that is the main selection. One has been chosen for next month too.

Good morning.

Thank you to Rosemarie and Deborah for stepping in. I'm slowly getting back on my feet. I've been sick on and off for months and wound up with several infections going on at once.

I just finished the story and definitely agree with Robin...
Robin wrote: "Interestingly, the sense of isolation as compared to our own society seems more accurate now than it would have 30 years ago. People don't need to leave home to access information, entertainment, and connection (of a sort) to each other."
The internet, texting, and chat rooms have caused us to be isolated from each other, which is not always a good thing.

However, the argument can be made that the internet provides us an opportunity to e-meet folks we never would have interact with in person.

~ How does she respond when her son asks to see her in person?
She was exasperated and didn't want to go. She couldn't understand the need to take a long trip with they could talk via the machine making it unnecessary for her to leave her home. she was push outside of her comfort zone.

~How is communication impacted if the nuances are not present?
I've been making this argument since my kids got phones. The don't call, they text. There is a lot the written word does not convey. Hurt, sarcasm, happiness, excitement can all be lost in a text.

~The room has an "isolate" function. Do you think that the use of this term is ironic, since everyone is already living physically apart from others?
Too true. Isolation, from my experience, can lead to many things, most of which are unhealthy. I understand a author or painter needing to be alone to brainstorm and ply their craft, but long term I think it's unhealthy.

~What do you think is the actual purpose of the book?
I viewed it similar to the Bible or other holy book, something to be revered because it had "all the answers."

~The phrase "No ideas here" is used more than once towards the end of chapter 1. How does this phrase sum up the society in this story?
It appears that the creators of the machine did not want individual thought in order to control the populace. If the machine was going to provided for, and as we saw continue to control additional areas, compliance was needed.

Good to have you back, Gem. Regarding texting, I have seen a group of five young people sitting together and all were texting.

I have chosen a story by Balzac for February and I'm fine with leading that discussion.

Rosemarie wrote: "Good to have you back, Gem. Regarding texting, I have seen a group of five young people sitting together and all were texting."

Yes, teenagers now drive around together all texting other people -or even each other. Both my youngest son's ex and current girlfriend, mothers of my 2 grandchildren, will sometimes sit over at our house looking at their phones and not us - as we are talking to then. It drives my wife and I crazy.

I agree with Robin and Cami's great insights and comments. This story combines a dystopian authoritarian outlook, as exists in other books, with a dystopian social communication outlook, which is its more intriguing and remarkable perspective. I waver between 3 and 4 stars on this one. If 3 stars, it's primarily because, as mentioned by others, this could have used a few more pages, at least to true novella size, to provide more insights and answers.