Black Coffee discussion

This will be the official discussion thread for the February Group Read: Nowhere Is a Place by Bernice L. McFadden.

I have a fan of Ms. McFadden, but somehow I've never read this. I'll be excited to start on the 15th.

Will anyone else be joining?

I'm a fan of Mcfadden also and I have not read this one. Putting a copy on hold today

What a treat! I entirely missed the nominations and voting for February, but am delighted that we're reading this. Definitely joining.

I have this one ready to go. I love her work and this one I have yet to read.

I’m in as well.

My copy just arrived at the library pickup desk - looking forward to starting it!

I’m also a big fan of McFadden. I’m ready to read!

I’ve been a fan of McFadden since “Gathering of Waters” and already have this one on loan from my library. Ready to get started!

Today is the day we start reading!! I don’t have a hard copy of the book, but I was thinking we could split the book into thirds and finish it over the next three weeks.

The first third of the book ends in “The Book of Lou” after the subheading “Oklahoma City, Oklahoma”. If you have a physical copy of the book, feel free to update us with the page number! We will begin discussing this section on 2/22.

How does this work for you guys?

This works really well for me - right now my life is so crazy that someone else putting me on a measured schedule is a great idea!

I can't give you the page count since the book is currently in my car, but I'll do it soon if no one gets there before me

Thanks Rachel!

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma starts on page 87. It’s not quite 1/3 of the way through but it looks like a good place to read up to. A new storytelling section seems to start there.

How's everyone's reading coming along?

I'm only on page 30. I'm traveling so I don't know how much I will get in before discussion starts

When is the first discussion?

I originally said 2/22 which is a Thursday, but I guess we can move it to that Saturday, 2/24.

I am in. Only a few pages away from Oklahoma. Glad we are breaking into sections. Life is a whirlwind right now.

Saturday would be great, Lulu. I'm looking to start this mid-week and read to our first discussion break in one sitting.

I’m ready. The pace picks up a bit a few chapters in.

Elissa wrote: "I’m ready. The pace picks up a bit a few chapters in."

I was feeling the same way about the pace. Good to know it will pick up Elissa lol

I'm at 106, just before Oklahoma.

Discussion: Beginning to - “The Book of Lou” after the subheading “Oklahoma City, Oklahoma”

WOW!!! After reading the first 1/3 of the book, all I can say is wow!

So lets start off with Sherry and her interracial relationship with the white jazz musician. I got the feeling that this wasn't just a one time thing, I feel like this was a one in a string of tumultuous relationships. The heartbreak of her finding him in the act of cheating on her, the verbal assault, the physical abuse, witnessing him have an intimacy with a white woman that he never had with her and it being because it was "something he didn't do", all of this was just kind of traumatic. We got a very brief glimpse of something that might have occured in her childhood, and I'm just wondering if Sherry is attracted to dysfunctional people and their behaviors.

And we are introduced to Lou and Buena Vista and the whole Native American slave trade, which I had no idea was an actual part of history (until I started reading Stamped from the Beginning by Ibram X. Kendi) and their tragic story. Which also brought into play Henry, Verna, and April.

I'm really trying my best not to finish this book before our three weeks are up, but I'm not sure I'll be successful.

How do you feel about the book so far? What are you thoughts of the characters and situations introduced so far? How do you like the two narratives, the conversation between Sherry and her mother Dumpling and the history of their ancestors?

Our Next discussion will start on 3/3, pages 94-192

Well first of all McFadden is a magnificent writer. I am on page 241. There is something deeply troubling about Sherry that has something to do with her childhood. She is very family oriented although her family drives her crazy. She is trying to experience things outside of the 'Black experience' - but why we don't know yet.
I enjoy how the author interweaves the story of Sherry's ancestors with the reconnection between Sherry and Dumpling. I was floored when I read of the Native American trade slave. I really thought Sherry made it up. She is a very good story teller and have some humorous parts to it.

I’m really enjoying traveling with Sherry and Dumpling - McFadden is a wonderful writer and the hints and clues are intriguing indeed. Clearly something happened to sherry, and also possibly to Dumpling, but we don’t know what.

On the other hand, while the introduction of the slave history as Native American is a bit of a twist, it feels a little by the numbers to me. At each step, with the exception of the obscenely fat daughter, the characters and their actions are pretty much straight out of central casting.

Edison is something else.

Who is Edison?

Edison is Sherry’s ex boyfriend. The white jazz musician in the beginning of the book.

And you're right Lee. He is a hot, funky mess!!! lol

Would you classify him as a typical white man - “who came looking for you”; “picking you” quoting Dumpling. Pg 5,6.

Sometimes men look for women, sometimes women look for men, sometimes they find each other. I think Edison and Sherry found each other, even if it wasn’t for the best of reasons on either side. That scene with Edison and the white woman was a shock - I’m routing for Falcon - I like his sweet nature.

I concur Elissa! Lol

Lulu wrote: "Discussion: Beginning to - “The Book of Lou” after the subheading “Oklahoma City, Oklahoma”

WOW!!! After reading the first 1/3 of the book, all I can say is wow!

So lets start off with Sherry an..."

To your question re Sherry, I can't tell if she's purposefully attracted to dysfunctional people or if she lacks the skill set to distinguish between functional and problematic. It's interesting because she's learned to establish barriers with her family -- hanging up on or not talking to her sisters, ending conversations with her mom when they cross over into topics she doesn't want to discuss. She's either been in therapy or learned these tactics through trial and error, but why wouldn't she apply the same self-care tactics to her romantic relationships? Or maybe she does now, but she didn't used to?

The Lou and Buena Vista story was heart-breaking, even when you're expecting it and waiting for the horror to hit. The subsequent tale of her twin boys is worse because she doesn't flag it the way she does with the baby's departure, so it hit me harder. I admire her strength. I'm appalled at the circumstances and world that required she develop it.

The Native American slave trade was a new story to me, and I took a couple of hours to Google and read. Just when you think you've heard all of the worst of our history, at a high level, at least, there's something new and enlightening to find out.

One of the things I have to watch out with McFadden, as a reader, is that her ability to describe awful events can bring me down for days. I have to consciously plan on an upbeat activity and pace my reading of her books. Is it just me? Warmest December and Loving Donovan were really tough. I still recall how I felt while reading each.

OTOH, the parts of the book between Sherry and Dumpling are so real and they frequently crack me up. I am one that always felt that I didn't quite "fit" in my family, in my interests, perspectives, style, everything, so I identify with Sherry acting like an outsider and an insider at the same time, but knowing she's not close to Dumpling in the same way her siblings are, and knowing that Dumpling doesn't get her one bit.

Elissa wrote: "Sometimes men look for women, sometimes women looking for men, sometimes they find each other. I think Edison and Sherry found each other, even if it wasn’t for the best of reasons on either side. ..."

Yes!

I finished. I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.

Carmaleeta wrote: "Would you classify him as a typical white man - “who came looking for you”; “picking you” quoting Dumpling. Pg 5,6."

Not sure what a typical "white man" is but I think Edison was only fulfilling a fantasy of being with a black women and then tossed Sherry to the side like trash

On pg 7 Did Dumpling slap Sherry for sitting the uncles lap because Dumpling was once molested as a child? Why not just explain that to Sherry instead of slapping her without an explanation

Edison is a hot mess. I feel like Sherry was in a relationship but he was clearly not. Very abusive. I dont think sherry had enough self confidence or was even aware of what a good man is

Maya wrote: "On pg 7 Did Dumpling slap Sherry for sitting the uncles lap because Dumpling was once molested as a child? Why not just explain that to Sherry instead of slapping her without an explanation"

That's the suggestion, but, yes, what did she learn without Dumpling ever explaining why that's a risky move? I get that Dumpling's relationship with her own mother and then Love(y) didn't exactly give her a lot to go on in terms of parental communication, but still ....

Do think Sherry is writing a book to find herself in the world? I get a sense she wants to know who she is and maybe even know the woman that is her mother

Maya wrote: "Do think Sherry is writing a book to find herself in the world? I get a sense she wants to know who she is and maybe even know the woman that is her mother"

I think she knows who she is, but she doesn't understand why she is who she is and she wants to solve for the stories that would explain herself. Her mother, with all due respect, is not a deep person and it seems like Sherry has never gotten much of Dumpling's attention. By trapping Dumpling in her car for the duration of a cross-country trip, Sherry can get Dumpling to tell her the facts Dumpling knows about their people, and from those facts, Sherry creates a fuller story. I don't know if that makes sense, but it seemed in the first half of the book as though Dumpling was maybe providing 10% of the material, and Sherry was creating the other 90%.

Carol wrote: "Maya wrote: "On pg 7 Did Dumpling slap Sherry for sitting the uncles lap because Dumpling was once molested as a child? Why not just explain that to Sherry instead of slapping her without an explan..."

I feel the slap was a reflex reaction because she had put the incident way behind her, deep in her self-consciousness. She was not capable of speaking intelligently to Sherry about sitting on her Uncle's lap.

I don't know if I would classify Edison as a typical white man, but I have always been skeptical about white men who are attracted to black women. It's just my personal opinion, but I always have the sinister thought that they are just trying to fufill some type of fetish. I think I read too many books..... lol.

Dumpling's reaction to Sherry sitting on her Uncle's lap was shocking, but I think it's probably how things were back in the day. I know that where I'm from a lot of families don't discuss molestation at all, and if it is brought up you are taught to "stay away from...., you know he isn't right". So the issue is never truly addressed. I really hope this mentality is changing.

Carol, I hadn't put my thought completely together on the story writing, but I think you did hit the nail on the head when you said "I don't know if that makes sense, but it seemed in the first half of the book as though Dumpling was maybe providing 10% of the material, and Sherry was creating the other 90%."

I need goodreads to have a like button LOL

Good call Carol "I don't know if that makes sense, but it seemed in the first half of the book as though Dumpling was maybe providing 10% of the material, and Sherry was creating the other 90%. "

on page 79 Dumpling did sneak and read some of her book. She stated "sure 'nuff you got some 'magination"

Maya wrote: "I need goodreads to have a like button LOL"

I agree!!! lol

Carmaleeta wrote: "Carol wrote: "Maya wrote: "On pg 7 Did Dumpling slap Sherry for sitting the uncles lap because Dumpling was once molested as a child? Why not just explain that to Sherry instead of slapping her wit..."

Yes - this is exactly what I thought. With something as deep in the gut as childhood abuse, the naked, lash-out reaction of "No!" comes long before the rational thought of "I should calmly explain to my child ..."

****Discussion: Pages 94 -193 ****

Henry has pretty much lost everything to Charles Lessing in a poker game. Lessing allows Henry and his family to stay on the plantation and work for him. Verna hates every moment of it and takes her and April's life. We aren't sure what happened to Henry, he either committed suicide or went back to England...which do you think it was?

Alright, lets talk about Malfoy. I didn't like him. I'd considered him Lessing's flunkie, but maybe that isn't the right word, I mean...Malfoy, really didn't have a choice.....but he kinda did have a choice. lol. He didn't have to discuss his thoughts about Buena fleeing to Lessing and he didn't have to bring Jim (the challenged twin) to fight.

"The strong have a better chance of surving, " she whispers as she starts out the door. "The strong have better chance of living to fight or run another day." How do you feel about Lou sacrificing Jim to save Jeff?

Lessing (What an A-hole!!!) never told his slaves that their freedom had been won, he just kept them on, abusing them...killing them, "because....".

How realistic do you think it would have actually been for Jeff and his crew to take over the Lessing plantation they way they did?

I thought it was cute how all of them decided they wanted to venture out into town after Willie's return with supplies. I also thought it was funny how Willie was the Guinea pig. lol.

When the strangers show up asking after Lessing and claiming to be his brother and son, I thought they were scam artist, but Brother (Jeff) felt they had the same eyes. But later on, the way the Lessings are talking about the property ("He would put it in the middle of no-man's-land, where nobody could find it.") makes me think they were imposters. Do you think Brother (Jeff) was mistaken? Or were these the real Lessings?

The idea of changing the will and actually being able to do it seemed kind of far fetched, but anything is possible right? Your thoughts?

What are you thoughts and questions on this section?

*****Full book discussion will begin on 3/10, unless everyone has already finished and we can start now. *****

I think Henry committed suicide. It seems like he may have drowned himself in the river, but it was not clear.

That part was so sad when Lou had to choose Jim to save Jeff. I think her slave mentality made her do it. I was thinking I could not do it. They would have had to kill me. There was a point in the story she said something along the lines and people leave so she would get over it in time. That part of story broke my heart. I also remember Lou had no emotion when Buene was sold off.

When they ventured out in to town it felt unrealistic because we all know back then they questions blacks everywhere they went but its fiction so I just rolled with it. LOL

I felt the men claiming to be family were scam artist as well

They way Lou died was strange. Everyone thought she was pregnant even though she may have been walking around with a mass in her stomach. Her life ended as if she was giving birth. I was wondering if there was type of meaning behind all that

Lulu wrote: " *****Full book discussion will begin on 3/10, unless everyone has already finished and we can start now. *****"

Trying to finish up this weekend