The History Book Club discussion

This is the discussion thread for the March Book of the Month Read - H is for Hawk by Helen Macdonald.

This discussion kicks off on March 9th.

by Helen Macdonald

Publisher's Synopsis:

About The Book

One of the New York Times Book Review 10 Best Books of the Year

A Best Book of the Year: TIME, NPR, O, The Oprah Magazine, Vogue, Washington Post, Boston Globe, Chicago Tribune, Seattle Times, Miami Herald, St. Louis Post Dispatch, Star Tribune, Library Journal, Publishers Weekly, Kirkus Reviews, Slate, Shelf Awareness, Book Riot

When Helen Macdonald’s father died suddenly on a London street, she was devastated. An experienced falconer—Helen had been captivated by hawks since childhood&mdashshe’d never before been tempted to train one of the most vicious predators, the goshawk. But in her grief, she saw that the goshawk’s fierce and feral temperament mirrored her own. Resolving to purchase and raise the deadly creature as a means to cope with her loss, she adopted Mabel, and turned to the guidance of The Once and Future King author T.H. White’s chronicle The Goshawk to begin her challenging endeavor. Projecting herself “in the hawk’s wild mind to tame her” tested the limits of Macdonald’s humanity and changed her life.

Heart-wrenching and humorous, this book is an unflinching account of bereavement and a unique look at the magnetism of an extraordinary beast, with a parallel examination of a legendary writer’s eccentric falconry. Obsession, madness, memory, myth, and history combine to achieve a distinctive blend of nature writing and memoir from an outstanding literary innovator.

Genre(s): Personal Memoirs, Essays, Animals/Birds - Animal Science

About the Author:



Helen Macdonald

Helen Macdonald is a writer, poet, illustrator and naturalist, and an affiliated research scholar at the Department of History and Philosophy of Science at the University of Cambridge. She is the author of the bestselling H Is for Hawk, as well as a cultural history of falcons, titled Falcon, and three collections of poetry, including Shaler’s Fish. Macdonald was a Research Fellow at Jesus College, Cambridge, has worked as a professional falconer, and has assisted with the management of raptor research and conservation projects across Eurasia. She now writes for the New York Times Magazine.

Praise

“Breathtaking . . . Helen Macdonald renders an indelible impression of a raptor’s fierce essence—and her own—with words that mimic feathers, so impossibly pretty we don’t notice their astonishing engineering.” —Vicki Constantine Croke, New York Times Book Review (cover review)

“Helen Macdonald’s beautiful and nearly feral book, H Is for Hawk, reminds us that excellent nature writing can lay bare some of the intimacies of the wild world as well. Her book is so good that, at times, it hurt me to read it. It draws blood, in ways that seem curative.” —Dwight Garner, New York Times

“One of a kind . . . Macdonald is a poet, her language rich and taut. . . . As she descends into a wild, nearly mad connection with her hawk, her words keep powerful track. . . . [She] brings her observer’s eye and poet’s voice to the universal experience of sorrow and loss.” —Barbara Brotman, Chicago Tribune

“Captivating and beautifully written, it’s a meditation on the bond between beasts and humans and the pain and beauty of being alive.” —People (Book of the Week)

“One of the loveliest things you’ll read this year . . . You’ll never see a bird overhead the same way again. A-” —Jason Sheeler, Entertainment Weekly

“Had there been an award for the best new book that defies every genre, I imagine it would have won that too. . . . Coherent, complete, and riveting, perhaps the finest nonfiction I read in the past year.” —Kathryn Schulz, New Yorker

“An elegantly written amalgam of nature writing, personal memoir, literary portrait and an examination of bereavement. . . . It illuminates unexpected things in unexpected ways.” —Guy Gavriel Kay, Washington Post

“To categorize this work as merely memoir, nature writing or spiritual writing would understate [Macdonald’s] achievement . . . her prose glows and burns.” —Karin Altenberg, Wall Street Journal

“Dazzling.” —Kate Guadagnino, Vogue

“[A] singular book that combines memoir and landscape, history and falconry . . . it is not like anything I’ve ever read . . . what Macdonald tells us so eloquently in her fine memoir [is] that transformation of our docile or resigned lives can be had if we only look up into the world.” —Susan Straight, Los Angeles Times

“The art of Macdonald’s book is in the way that she weaves together various kinds of falling apart—the way she loops one unraveling thread of meaning into another. . . . What’s lovely about [it] is the clarity with which she sees both the inner and outer worlds that she lives in.” —Caleb Crain, New York Review of Books

“Extraordinary . . . indelible . . . [it contains] one of the most memorable passages I’ve read this year, or for that matter this decade . . . Mabel is described so vividly she becomes almost physically present on the page.” —Lev Grossman, TIME

“One of the most riveting encounters between a human being and an animal ever written.” —Simon Worrall, National Geographic

“Assured, honest and raw . . . a soaring wonder of a book.”—Daneet Steffens, Boston Globe

“One of the best books about nature that I’ve ever read. Macdonald’s wonderful gift for language and her keen observations bring pleasure to every page.” —Karen Sandstrom, Cleveland Plain Dealer

“The echoes of myth in Macdonald’s writing, however subtle and unobtrusive, lend her book an emotional weight usually reserved only for literature, and a grace only for poetry. But this is one of the book’s great achievements: to belong to several genres at once, and to succeed at all of them.” —Madeleine Larue, The Millions

“A unique and beautiful book with a searing emotional honesty, and descriptive language that is unparalleled in modern literature.” —Costa Book Award

“An inspired, beautiful and absorbing account of a woman battling grief—with a goshawk. . . . Writing with breathless urgency . . . Macdonald broadens her scope well beyond herself to focus on the antagonism between people and the environment. Whether you call this a personal story or nature writing, it’s poignant, thoughtful and moving—and likely to become a classic in either genre.” —Kirkus Reviews (starred review)

“In this profoundly inquiring and wholly enrapturing memoir, Macdonald exquisitely and unforgettably entwines misery and astonishment, elegy and natural history, human and hawk.” —Donna Seaman, Booklist (starred review)

“Unsparing, fierce . . . a superior accomplishment. There’s not a line here that rings false; every insight is hard won . . . Macdonald has found the ideal balance between art and truth.” —David Laskin, Seattle Times

“Gorgeous.” —Diane Rehm, The Diane Rehm Show

“A wonder both of nature and of meditative writing.” —Maureen Corrigan, Fresh Air with Terry Gross

“To read Helen Macdonald’s new memoir is to have every cell of your body awake and alive.” —Robin Young, Here and Now

“[With] sumptuously poetic prose . . . there is deft interplay between agony and ecstasy, elegy and rebirth, wildness and domesticity, alongside subtle reminders about the cruelty of nature and our necessary faith in humanity.” —Malcolm Forbes, Minneapolis Star Tribune

“[Macdonald’s] writing—about soil and weather, myth and history, pain and its slow easing—retains the qualities of [her hawk] Mabel’s wild heart, and the commanding scope and piercing accuracy of her hawk’s eye.” —Joanna Scutts, Newsday

“A triumph.” —Nick Willoughby, Salon

“A genre-busting dazzler of a book, worthy of the near-universal accolades that it’s received so far.” —Elisabeth Donnelly, Flavorwire

“Extraordinary . . . Macdonald elegantly weaves multitudinous and extremely complex issues into a single work of seamless prose.” —Lucy Scholes, The Daily Beast

“The hawk-book’s form is perfect. It prickles your skin the way nature can when you are surprised by an animal in your path. Some books are not books but visitations, and this one has crossed its share of thresholds before arriving here, to an impossible middle perch between wilderness and culture, past and present, life and death.” —Katy Waldman, Slate

“It sings. I couldn’t stop reading.” —Mark Haddon

“H is for Hawk is a work of great spirit and wonder, illuminated equally by terror and desire. Each beautiful sentence is capable of taking a reader’s breath. The book is built of feather and bone, intelligence and blood, and a vulnerability so profound as to conjure that vulnerability’s shadow, which is the great power of honesty. It is not just a definitive work on falconry; it is a definitive work on humanity, and all that can and cannot be possessed.” —Rick Bass

“A lovely touching book about a young woman grieving over the death of her father becoming rejuvenated by training one of the roughest, most difficult creatures in the heavens, the goshawk.” —Jim Harrison

“In addition to being an excellent memoir of loss and grief, H is for Hawk is a wonderful exploration of how birds of prey can function as metaphor to produce art and a roadmap for human lives. Read it and enrich your life.” —Dan O’Brien

“Rich with the poetry of ideation, the narrative flows through the author’s deeply textured story of personal loss like a mountain wind, swirling seamlessly through fields of literature, biology, natural history, and the art of hunting with hawks. Readers might do well to absorb this book a bite at a time—but be prepared for a full meal.” —Lynn Schooler

“A beautiful book on so many levels. Macdonald fearlessly probes each facet of grief and traverses its wilderness to reach redemption. But most beautiful of all is the complex, layered bond that builds between her and Mabel, her hawk. Who would have guessed that human and bird could share so much?” —Jan DeBlieu

“My favorite book, reincarnated: If you ever wondered what would happen if Sam from My Side of the Mountain grew up, loved, ached, and discovered himself in the heart of an ugly creature, you’ll find the answer in H is for Hawk. ‘The wild can be human work,’ Hawk tells us, which is one reason you’ll have to buy a copy—I’m never lending mine.” —Christopher McDougall

“In this elegant synthesis of memoir and literary sleuthing . . . Macdonald describes in beautiful, thoughtful prose how she comes to terms with death in new and startling ways.” —Publishers Weekly

“A dazzling piece of work: deeply affecting, utterly fascinating and blazing with love . . . a deeply human work shot through, like cloth of gold, with intelligence and compassion—an exemplar of the mysterious alchemy by which suffering can be transmuted into beauty. I will be surprised if a better book than H is for Hawk is published this year.” —Melissa Harrison, Financial Times

“More than any other writer I know, including her beloved [T.H.] White, Macdonald is able to summon the mental world of a bird of prey . . . she extends the boundaries of nature writing. As a naturalist she has somehow acquired her bird’s laser-like visual acuity. As a writer she combines a lexicographer’s pleasure in words as carefully curated objects with an inventive passion for new words or for ways of releasing fresh effects from the old stock. . . . Macdonald looks set to revive the genre.” —Mark Cocker, Guardian

“A talon-sharp memoir that will thrill and chill you to the bone . . . Macdonald has just the right blend of the scientist and the poet, of observing on the one hand and feeling on the other.” —Craig Brown, Daily Mail

“What [Macdonald] has achieved is a very rare thing in literature—a completely realistic account of a human relationship with animal consciousness. . . . Her training of Mabel has the suspense and tension of the here and now. You are gripped by the slightest movement, by the turn of every feather. It is a soaring performance and Mabel is the star.” —John Carey, Sunday Times

“A well-wrought book, one part memoir, one part gorgeous evocation of the natural world and one part literary meditation . . . lit with flashes of grace, a grace that sweeps down to the reader to hold her wrist tight with beautiful, terrible claws. The discovery of the season.” —Erica Wagner, Economist

“The magnificent H is for Hawk [has] grabbed me by its talons . . . [it’s] nature writing, but not as you know it. Astounding.” —Caroline Sanderson, The Bookseller

“This beautiful book is at once heartfelt and clever in the way it mixes elegy with celebration: elegy for a father lost, celebration of a hawk found – and in the finding also a celebration of countryside, forbears of one kind and another, life-in-death. At a time of very distinguished writing about the relationship between human kind and the environment, it is immediately pre-eminent.” —Andrew Motion

“A deep, dark work of terrible beauty that will open fissures in the stoniest heart. . . . Macdonald is a survivor . . . she has produced one of the most eloquent accounts of bereavement you could hope to read . . . A grief memoir with wings.” —The Bookseller

“A book made from the heart that goes to the heart . . . It combines old and new nature and human nature with great originality. No one who has looked up to see a bird of prey cross the sky could read it and not have their life shifted.” —Tim Dee, author of The Running Sky

“The most magical book I have ever read.” —Olivia Laing

Awards

Winner of the 2014 Samuel Johnson Prize for Nonfiction
Winner of the Costa Book Award
Finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award
Finalist for the Kirkus Prize for Nonfiction
A Bookseller and Waterstones Book of the Month
One of O, The Oprah Magazine‘s 10 Best Books of the Year

Table of Contents:

1. Patience 3
2. Lost 12
3. Small worlds 20
4. Mr White 34
5. Holding tight 46
6. The box of stars 56
7. Invisibility 64
8. The Rembrandt interior 74
9. The rite of passage 82
10. Darkness 90
11. Leaving home 99
12. Outlaws 107
13. Alice, falling 120
14. The line 133
15. For whom the bell 144
16. Rain 153
17. Heat 158

Part II

18. Flying free 167
19. Extinction 178
20. Hiding 185
21. Fear 195
22. Apple day 205
23. Memorial 214
24. Drugs 221
25. Magical places 232
26. The flight of time 242
27. The new world 249
28. Winter histories 258
29. Enter spring 269
30. The moving earth 276

Postscript 281
Notes 285
Acknowledgements 299

Syllabus

Week One - March 9th, 2018 - March 11th, 2018 - pg. 3 - 63

1. Patience 3
2. Lost 12
3. Small worlds 20
4. Mr White 34
5. Holding tight 46
6. The box of stars 56

Week Two - March 12th, 2018 - March 18th, 2018 - pg 64 - 119

7. Invisibility 64
8. The Rembrandt interior 74
9. The rite of passage 82
10. Darkness 90
11. Leaving home 99
12. Outlaws 107

Week Three - March 19th, 2018 - March 25th, 2018 - pg. 120 - 166

13. Alice, falling 120
14. The line 133
15. For whom the bell 144
16. Rain 153
17. Heat 158

Week Four - March 26th, 2018 - April 1, 2018 - pg. 159 - 231

Part II
18. Flying free 167
19. Extinction 178
20. Hiding 185
21. Fear 195
22. Apple day 205
23. Memorial 214
24. Drugs 221

Week Five - April 2nd, 2018 - April 8th, 2018 - pg 232 - End of Book

25. Magical places 232
26. The flight of time 242
27. The new world 249
28. Winter histories 258
29. Enter spring 269
30. The moving earth 276

Postscript 281
Notes 285
Acknowledgements 299

H is for Hawk

“H is for Hawk by Helen MacDonals is a non fiction book/memoir that speaks to the need to develop one’s own mechanism for coping with life’s ups and downs".



Chapter Overviews and Summaries:

Chapter One:

The book opens with Helen talking about an area east of Cambridge known as the Brecklands. She call it one of her favorite placed and she realize that seven years ago she wasn’t aware of it but she was looking for Goshawks.

Her father had taught her about patience when looking for birds and she recalled that. And her patience paid off

Chapter Two:

Helen is shocked by news. And thinks back to a project her Dad was involed in. She recalled a connection to a Goshawk years ago.

Chapter Three:

The protagonist - Helen - thinks back to her childhood and when she was twelve. And how out of place she felt around falconers but she thought that she would like to be one. Helen had read a book when she was younger by T.H. White and it made hawks look like monsters which she did not like at the time.

Chapter Four:

Helen senses a connection between the author T.H. White and herself. She realizes that the author was hurt just like she was. But when she read moe about him - it appeared that he was trying to train a hawk so that he and the bird could learn about being free and ferocious. He wanted to write a book about his experiences when the war was over and live in peace with nature.

Chapter Five

Helen and Christina travel to Scotland so that Helen can purchase a Goshawk. She meets two hawks that the breeder has and pleads for the smaller female one because she senses more of a connection to it.

Chapter Six:

Helen thinks back about how hard it was to lose somebody. She feels like she is trying to reinvent herself with the Goshawk.

We will be opening this book discussion on March 9th.

1) Please introduce yourself and tell us why this book interested you and where you are from - city/state (general area) or country.
We love to know where all of our global members are from who are reading and discussing a book with us. It is a lot of fun.

2) Let us know how you are enjoying the book and your first impressions. Remember we are only reading Chapters One through Chapter Six this week. We will not have to use the spoiler html as long as you stay within the pages assigned with each week of the discussion.

All, I have set up the thread so that we can begin discussion on March 9th - remember this is a single thread discussion so you must be careful about spoilers. We do not have this problem on a multi thread discussion.

However for my benefit and for everybody else's I am changing things a bit. If you are posting during the week of the reading schedule and you are only posting information about that week's reading and not going ahead - then you do not have to use the spoiler html. However, if you go ahead of the weekly reading and want to post ahead about some topic or page or quote that we have not been assigned yet and have not read - you are bound to use the spoiler html with the header or your post will be moved to the spoiler glossary thread.

At any time you can post on the spoiler glossary thread but on this discussion thread we are posting and staying with the assignments and not getting ahead if in fact you do not want to be bound to use the spoiler html.

So it is up to you. If you stay with the assignments and do not post about something ahead that is coming up - you do not have to use the spoiler html but if you don't and you get ahead or you want to talk about something expansive then you MUST use the spoiler html or post it on the glossary spoiler thread.

Those of you who are going to read H is for Hawk. Use the spoiler html if you plan to post about pages ahead of the weekly discussion because this is a single thread discussion.

1. Read messages (9, 10, 11, 12, 13); those messages show you the rules for the BOTM discussion and how to do the spoiler html.

2. Messages and actually show you the spoiler html code. Use it on this thread if you plan to go ahead of the weekly assigned reading or if you become more expansive. You can post expansive material on the glossary thread with spoiler html but here you must use the spoiler html if you get ahead or become too expansive.

3. Where is the Table of Contents and the Weekly Reading Assignments? - for this selection - check message 5 for the table of contents and message 6 for the syllabi for all four weeks - so that your reading schedule matches the assigned reading for that week.

Remember the following:

Everyone is welcome but make sure to use the goodreads spoiler function if you get ahead of the assigned weekly pages.

If you come to the discussion after folks have finished reading it, please feel free to post your comments as we will always come back to the thread to discuss the book.

The rules

You must follow the rules of the History Book Club and also:

First rule of Book of the Month discussions:
Respect other people's opinions, no matter how controversial you think they may be.

Second rule of Book of the Month discussions:
Always, always Chapter/page mark and spoiler alert your posts if you are discussing parts of the book that are ahead of the pages assigned or if you have become expansive it your topics.

To do these spoilers, follows these easy steps:

Step 1. enclose the word spoiler in forward and back arrows; < >

Step 2. write your spoiler comments in

Step 3. enclose the word /spoiler in arrows as above, BUT NOTE the forward slash in front of the word. You must put that forward slash in.

Your spoiler should appear like this:
(view spoiler)

And please mark your spoiler clearly like this:

State a Chapter and page if you can.
EG: Chapter 24, page 154

Or say Up to Chapter *___ (*insert chapter number) if your comment is more broad and not from a single chapter.

Chapter 1, p. 23
(view spoiler)[I know everything now about chapter one and I am going to post it here - oops I better place this in a spoiler alert so I do not ruin the book for others (hide spoiler)]

If you are raising a question/issue for the group about the book, you don't need to put that in a spoiler, but if you are citing something specific, it might be good to use a spoiler.

By using spoilers, you don't ruin the experience of someone who is reading slower or started later or is not reading the assigned pages.

Thanks.

All, we do not have to do citations regarding the book or the author being discussed during the book discussion on these discussion threads - nor do we have to cite any personage in the book being discussed while on the discussion threads related to this book.

However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.

You can copy and paste below to get your spoiler right:

You can copy and paste below to get your spoiler right:

<spoiler>Put Text Here</spoiler>

This is the discussion thread folks and is the non spoiler thread.

The other thread is the glossary which is the spoiler thread.

Welcome Folks to the Week One assignment and discussion of H is for Hawk.

It may seem like you have a lot of reading for a short week but next week you will have a full week so whatever you do not complete this week - you can carry over to the next week's assignment. Try to stay up with the group and it makes it a lot better for the discussion and the interaction. Remember no spoilers.

Syllabus

Week One - March 9th, 2018 - March 11th, 2018 - pg. 3 - 63

1. Patience 3
2. Lost 12
3. Small worlds 20
4. Mr White 34
5. Holding tight 46
6. The box of stars 56

Be sure to remember that on this thread for this week you cannot discuss anything beyond the end of chapter six without spoilers. Additionally for this week if you want to go beyond that page - you must post your comments in the glossary thread for this book.

Let us kick this off by introducing yourself (tell us where you are from - city/state (general location) and country - we are a global community and this is fun for all of us) and tell us why this book interested you and why you wanted to read and discuss it. You can call yourself your avatar name if you like - that is up to you - but give us a general location where you are from so we can all feel united across this big world of ours.

Also if you have begun Chapter One - what are your initial impressions?

My name is Bentley and I am from the Metro NYC area and I am very interested in reading this book because of my love of animals and nature. This book also appeals to me because I lost a parent not that long ago. Some folks turn to family, some spirituality and in Helen's case - she turned to nature and birds. I think that this book will have a connection with everyone who has ever read Ecclesiastes for solace, comfort, inspiration and for anyone who loves animals, nature, nonfiction and beautiful writing.

Here is the verse and the well known song:

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, a time to reap that which is planted;

A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;

A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Pete Seeger almost took this verse verbatim for his folk song in the 50's. He changed a few words and added Turn, Turn, Turn.

It was recorded by the Byrds later on.

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4ga_...

And so shall we begin anew on March 9th with what should be a beautiful read.

Regards,

Bentley

And so we begin:

I.
Patience

”Forty-five minutes north-east of Cambridge is a landscape I’ve come to love very much indeed. It’s where wet fen gives way to parched sand. It’s a land of twisted pine trees, burned-out cars, shotgun- peppered road signs adn US Air Force bases. There are ghosts here: houses crumble inside numbered blocks if pine forestry. Thre are spaces built for air-deliverd nukes inside grassy tumuli behind twelve-foot fences, tatoo parlours and US Air Force golf courses. In spring, it’s a riot of noise: constant plane traffic, gas-guns over pea fields, woodlarks and jet engines, It’s called the Brecklands - the broken lands - and it’s where I ended up that morning, seven years ago in early spring, of a a trip I hadn’t planned at all.”

Discussion Questions:
Chapters One - Six (pages 1 - 63)



1. In the book’s opening pages, Macdonald writes, “The wild can be human work” (p. 8). She wrote this sentence to explain how British goshawks were literally brought back from extinction by falconers who imported birds from the continent that were lost or released and subsequently bred. What other meanings could this line have? What does this tell us about the kind of narrator Helen will be?

2. Helen writes about a time when she was nine and impatient to see hawks. Her father explained, “[W]hen you wanted to see something very badly, sometimes you had to stay still, stay in the same place, remember how much you wanted to see it, and be patient” (p. 10). How well is Helen served by this advice throughout the book?


Alisdair MacDonald - age 21 - Photographer

3. Macdonald was eight years old when she first reads T. H. White’s The Goshawk, a book that proves a formative experience. She initially dislikes the book (p. 30): “Why would a grown-up write about not being able to do something?” How does Macdonald’s views on White’s book evolve over time?


Helen and her Dad

4. “The book you are reading is my story,” Macdonald writes. “It is not a biography of Terence Hanbury White. But White is a part of my story all the same. I have to write about him because he was there” (p. 38). What does Macdonald mean? How does understanding White’s life inform her own journey? How does our understanding of White’s book help us understand her own?



5. When Macdonald arranges to buy her hawk, she’s initially shown the wrong bird. When the correct bird appears, she notes, “I looked into her eyes and saw something blank and crazy in her stare. . . . This isn’t my hawk” (p. 55). Why does Macdonald change her mind?

6. Macdonald writes, “What we see in the lives of animals are lessons we’ve learned from the world” (p. 60). Through closely observing her hawk’s life, what lessons does Helen ultimately learn from the world?


HAWKISH WRITER English author Terence Hanbury “Tim” White (1906-1964)

by T.H. White

We are open folks - please introduce yourself and jump right in.

Hi, I am Lisa A and reside on the central coast of California. (We are currently experiencing another dry winter season here and are worried about ongoing drought conditions.) This book is of interest to me due to the mix of themes: environment, psychology, grief, depression and self-healing. A book solely about the history and training of goshawks, wouldn't be very interesting to me.

I have read chapter one and my initial thoughts are (view spoiler)[ Ms MacDonald developed an attachment to nature at early age and she seemed to be deeply influenced by her father's interests. (hide spoiler)]

Although I am new to the group, I wanted to take a moment to thank Bentley for all time and effort put into this discussion topic.

Hi Bentley. I started listening to Helen's reading of this a couple days ago and have just reached the halfway point. I first became interested in the book because a pair of Cooper's hawks visit the park where I walk my dogs every year and I wanted to learn more about their habits. The book is a lot different than what I expected but I am still enjoying it immensely. As a happy coincidence, I was walking the dogs yesterday and listening to the book when one of the hawks flew right in front of me, the first sighting of the year.

Very good Tom and welcome - just remember that we are talking about only the first six chapters this week without spoilers. What a wonderful coincidence about the Cooper hawks. I would have been so excited. And I am delighted that you are enjoying the book - take a look at some of the discussion questions and take a stab at them.

Lisa A wrote: "Hi, I am Lisa A and reside on the central coast of California. (We are currently experiencing another dry winter season here and are worried about ongoing drought conditions.) This book is of inter..."

Lisa hello and welcome - I am sorry about your drought. We are experiencing a very cold and wintry winter this year on the East Coast.

This book has many interwoven themes and the goshawks are deeply symbolic as you are finding out.

You are very welcome Lisa and you can discuss all of the first six chapters without spoilers but delighted that you took the time to use the spoiler html since we are just starting out and I opened the thread early since the thread was ready.

Yes the author did have that early kind of relationship you alluded to in both instances.

The discussion questions which you should look at are in message 16 for this first week. Enjoy and respond to as many as you feel you can.

Message 16 - any thoughts on the discussion questions for this segment.

My thoughts on a few discussion questions:
1. In the book’s opening pages, Macdonald writes, “The wild can be human work” (p. 8). What other meanings could this line have? In a general sense, the wild or nature, isn't a ecosystem independent of humans. People just going about their daily tasks can impact nature, for better or for worse. The training of goshawks or even domesticated animals are also part of the realm of human work. What does this tell us about the kind of narrator Helen will be? The author may mention some specific memory or idea, but there often seems to be some deeper meaning attached to it.

5. When Macdonald arranges to buy her hawk, she’s initially shown the wrong bird. When the correct bird appears, she notes, “I looked into her eyes and saw something blank and crazy in her stare. . . . This isn’t my hawk” (p. 55). Why does Macdonald change her mind? Perhaps two reasons: Helen was looking for some immediate connection to the bird. Also, perhaps the second goshawk's crazy blank stare, was a self-reflection of her own feelings? I am assuming she was attempting to train a goshawk to achieve some sense of grounding and healing.

Lisa A - thank you - maybe though she was looking for a connection that would reflect - her connection to the animal - much as the connection we are seeking when we select a new puppy or kitten, and she just does not feel that in the first case.

Hi there. I'm Anna from London. I was recommended a couple of nature books last year and having never really tried any before discovered that it is a genre I enjoy.

I was excited to read this as a great book in that genre and came to this book knowing nothing about it other than the title and the cover - which on my edition shows a wild goshawk. My first thoughts therefore were slight befuddlement that this doesn't really seem to be nature writing, or at least it's not just nature writing.

Patience started off as I expected with beautiful descriptions of the woods, but when the grief memoir and literary criticism start (as mentioned in the outline above), I was a bit thrown off. I think I need to readjust my expectations.

The other thing I hadn't really picked up on is that this is about training hawks, not hawks in a natural habitat (as shown on the cover if my edition). I've recently become quite uncomfortable with zoos and am not sure how I feel about falconry as a pastime, even if it is a method of confronting grief. Maybe this book will help me clarify my thoughts on keeping birds in captivity.

AnnaG wrote: "....am not sure how I feel about falconry as a pastime, even if it is a method of confronting grief. ..."

Hi Anna- I share some of the same concerns, but also wonder how I will feel about things by the end of the book.

Bentley wrote: "Lisa A - thank you - maybe though she was looking for a connection that would reflect - her connection to the animal - much as the connection we are seeking when we select a new puppy or kitten, an..."

That was well stated, Bentley. I agree with your thoughts.

AnnaG wrote: "Hi there. I'm Anna from London. I was recommended a couple of nature books last year and having never really tried any before discovered that it is a genre I enjoy.

I was excited to read this as ..."

Anna G I will get back to responding to you and others after church this morning and lunch with friends. But I will be right back.

Thoughts on questions in comment 16:
1. In the book’s opening pages, Macdonald writes, “The wild can be human work” - When I read this, it occurred to me that many people believe that the wild is something inviolate and that any change is, by definition, bad and that any human efforts to bring about change is devoutly to be condemned. Granted, where ecosystems are involved, we humans are the proverbial bull in the china shop and the list of unforeseen and unwanted consequences to our efforts to improve or eradicate a species is endless. Nevertheless, there are some cases where human intervention is beneficial and the best examples of this to be when we try to reintroduce species that we have previously tried to eliminate. There is an excellent video that describes how the recent reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone National Park has triggered trophic cascades that actually change the physical landscape of the park. It’s fascinating.
How Wolves Change Rivers

Thoughts on questions in comment 16:
4. “The book you are reading is my story,” Macdonald writes. “It is not a biography of Terence Hanbury White. But White is a part of my story all the same. I have to write about him because he was there” (p. 38). What does Macdonald mean?
One of my first Impressions when I started reading this book was that it wasn’t really a book about hawks. It was a book about Helen MacDonald, a journey of self-discovery as she came to terms with the loss of her father. By coming to know her goshawk, she is actually learning to know herself. Later on, when she met the two birds and said “This isn’t my hawk” I interpreted it to mean that she didn’t see herself in the larger hawk so she was essentially saying, “This isn’t me.”
Her inclusion of T.H. White in her book serves as a roadmap for her journey. As White did in The Goshawk, MacDonald does in H is for Hawk. Both are wounded, solitary individuals and both retreat from the world and dedicate themselves to training hawks in their efforts to discover and come to term with who they are.

Tom wrote: "Thoughts on questions in comment 16:
4. “The book you are reading is my story,” Macdonald writes. “It is not a biography of Terence Hanbury White. But White is a part of my story all the same. I ha..."

I'm Connie from Connecticut. I wasn't intending to reread this book, but I got wrapped up in the wonderful writing today.

I love your last sentence, Tom. I felt the same way about White and MacDonald. She also learned about training a hawk from White's successes and, maybe more importantly, his mistakes.

Hi, I am Mark from Moscow, TN (about 30 miles east of Memphis). This book kept popping up. I am constantly on the prowl for books. I listen to the NY Times book podcast, I subscribe to the book section of NPR. I get book bub in my emails. H if for Hawk popped up several times in various lists, and when I saw this discussion I decided to see if my library had it. They have the audiobook read by the author, and so I started listening.

One passage that in the book which resonated for me was when Helen as a child hung out with some gentlemen hawkers and their goshawks for the day. The day ended with dusk, but not all the goshawks returned to their handlers, and those gentlemen resignedly said cheerio and waited for their birds below the trees in which they perched. Human mastery of nature is not absolute, and many things we try to tame still maintain a degree of independence. You can either fight it or accept it. The gentlemen hawkers accepted it and thus were able to maintain a relationship with their little slice of nature. Goshawking is not for those who demand total obedience.

Mark, welcome glad to have you.

Be careful of spoilers - this is a single thread discussion so you have to keep up with the reading and not go ahead otherwise you need to use the spoiler html.

For this week we are reading the following:

Week One - March 9th, 2018 - March 11th, 2018 - pg. 3 - 63

1. Patience 3
2. Lost 12
3. Small worlds 20
4. Mr White 34
5. Holding tight 46
6. The box of stars 56

If the passage that you refer to is in these chapters then you do not have to place your passage in spoiler html but I cannot remember where that passages is that you are referring to. So check messages 12 and 13. If the passage is from the first 6 chapters you do not have to that. But if it isn't then you do. I like your passage though and what it represents very much and that is why I love animals and nature too - you cannot dictate your terms - there is a give and take and patience.

These are directions:

All, we do not have to do citations regarding the book or the author being discussed during the book discussion on these discussion threads - nor do we have to cite any personage in the book being discussed while on the discussion threads related to this book.

However if we discuss folks outside the scope of the book or another book is cited which is not the book and author discussed then we do have to do that citation according to our citation rules. That makes it easier to not disrupt the discussion.

Also we need to use the spoiler html if you discuss passages ahead of the assigned reading.

You can copy and paste below to get your spoiler right:

(view spoiler)[Put Text Here (hide spoiler)]

It is in like chapter 2 or 3. It is an audiobook and it was early on in her childhood, I think she was about 9.

Hello to one and all,

I am Richard W. Buro, retired public education professional, avid reader, and becoming a writer or one stripe or another. I am enjoying by . I am having a wonderful reading this book, as it reminds me of the times I have spent enjoying our versions of raptors in our fields and parks - red-tailed hawks, great horned owls, a golden eagle or two, and migrating bald eagles as well.

In question 1 Ms. McDonald states,"The wild can be human work” (p. 8)." This is directly describing the environmental impact of humans in the Brecklands. The shifting sands, the consistent thunder of the jets from RAF Lakenheath occasionally basing USAF B-52s as well as their own nuclear deterrent bombers, and the habitat destruction and reclamation efforts the Ms. McDonald has seen and has also taken efforts to help with the restoration of the Brecklands to a more pristine environment for the reintroduction of goshawks, one of the original inhabitants of the Brecklands. Ms. McDonald is also glad to see that the efforts at habitat restoration seem to be working as goshawks once again grace the Brecklands.

In the quote

Richard welcome - you are correct concerning the environmental impact in the Brecklands. And I liked that phrase too.

Mark wrote: "It is in like chapter 2 or 3. It is an audiobook and it was early on in her childhood, I think she was about 9."

Thank you so I missed that in my reading.

Connie wrote: "Tom wrote: "Thoughts on questions in comment 16:
4. “The book you are reading is my story,” Macdonald writes. “It is not a biography of Terence Hanbury White. But White is a part of my story all th..."

Welcome Connie from Connecticut

Tom wrote: "Thoughts on questions in comment 16:
4. “The book you are reading is my story,” Macdonald writes. “It is not a biography of Terence Hanbury White. But White is a part of my story all the same. I ha..."

Tom another good analysis of this passage. Excellent post.

Tom wrote: "Thoughts on questions in comment 16:
1. In the book’s opening pages, Macdonald writes, “The wild can be human work” - When I read this, it occurred to me that many people believe that the wild is s..."

That is an excellent link - when I first saw it - I was amazed at the circle of life which impacts the environment and "the results".

AnnaG wrote: "Hi there. I'm Anna from London. I was recommended a couple of nature books last year and having never really tried any before discovered that it is a genre I enjoy.

I was excited to read this as ..."

Anna you are correct - it is not just about Hawks. But it is writing about nature as well as an introspective analysis of how the hawk helps Helen come to terms with her loss. But then again - all of nature can help with mending of spirit whether it is a long walk in the woods, a day at the ocean, a canoe trip down a lake or even those brave souls who climb Mt. Everest. It is invigorating and releases something which makes us all feel better, stronger, and more attune to the world around us.

Falconry was what helped Helen - would I raise hawks - probably not. But I do admire those that do and their attachment to the hawk and vice versa. I think though I will stick with my dogs who are my two buddies (smile).

For all of readers - here is this week's assignment:

Week Two - March 12th, 2018 - March 18th, 2018 - pg 64 - 119

7. Invisibility 64
8. The Rembrandt interior 74
9. The rite of passage 82
10. Darkness 90
11. Leaving home 99
12. Outlaws 107

Remember no one is ever behind here and everybody can catch up as they find the time. However, since we are in Week Two - we can discuss anything from page one through the end of Chapter 12 without spoilers. If you go beyond Chapter 12 and want to post anything make sure to use the spoiler html and show us what section of the book you are talking about.

Example:

Chapter 13
(view spoiler)[ This is about a spoiler Chapter (hide spoiler)]

Also the Glossary thread is a spoiler thread - and you can put any comment on there regarding the book. Also if you have any links that you would want to add about the book or its subject matter - or anything else of interest - you can also add it there.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...

Chapter Overviews and Summaries

Chapter 7 - Invisibility - p. 64

Helen wakes up feeling like the house is wilder because of the hawk's presence. She remembers her father's lessons on patience and that she needs to be patient with the bird and act as if she is invisible. She remembers her father's words about how to deal with fear. The hawk is named Mabel.



Chapter 8 - The Rembrandt interior - p. 74

Helen thinks about White and how he first attempted to train his hawk. White thought that the hawk hated him. Trying to train the hawk was like his own attempts to try to train himself.

PBS Nature special - Helen and Lupin
Link to video trailer: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/h-hawk...

Chapter 9 - The rite of passage - p. 82

To Helen, her hawk is a marvel and a beauty But just like White - she believes that she is trying to project her own personality onto her hawk. When she names Mabel - she finally says her own name.



Chapter 10 - Darkness - p. 90

White did not know how to train hawks - so he always caved when training Gos. Helen tries to get the hood on Mabel but she is forced to give up. Stuart comes to visit and encourages Helen to bring Mabel outside. Helen is not as much worried about Mabel as about herself feeling overwhelmed.




Chapter 11 - Leaving home p. 99

Helen is more jittery outside than Mabel when a jogger surprises them. Helen realizes that she is looking at the world through the eyes of the Hawk just like White tried to do as well with Gos. She remembers the day of her father's death and her mother with her Dad's camera.



Chapter 12 - Outlaws p. 107

Helen is able to teach Mabel how to jump. She begins to socialize with people who stop to talk like a man from Kazakhstan named Kanat who asked her when she is going to take Mabel hunting. But she feels somehow that people are outsiders. Accidentally, she ends up playing with Mabel and realizes how playful hawks can be.
Mabel makes Helen feel that she is traveling through history.

Discussion Questions - Chapters 7 - 12

Pages 64 - 119

1. When Macdonald first trains her hawk to become accustomed to her presence, she explains that “making yourself disappear is the greatest skill in the world” (p. 68). Later, Macdonald says about being thrilled that her hawk has forgotten she’s there because it’s a sign of acceptance: “But there was a deeper, darker thrill. It was that I had been forgotten” (p. 73). Why does this excite Macdonald?

2. After living several days with her hawk in her flat, Macdonald observes, “I was turning into a hawk” (p. 85). What does Macdonald mean? How does she explain her “transformation”?

3. Macdonald goes through various emotional stages training her hawk. On one particular day, within a couple hours she goes from feeling like a “beneficent figure” to “the worst falconer in the history of the world.” Ultimately, she realizes, “I have lost the ability to disappear” (p. 93). How critical was this loss at this stage of her training? How important of a turning point is this for Macdonald?

4. A big step in Macdonald’s hawk training is “walking” Mabel in public. Macdonald fears what Mabel’s encounter with people will be like: “They are things to shun, to fear, to turn from, shielding my hawk” (p. 100). Is Macdonald also shielding herself? Why or why not?

5. Macdonald writes that each picture her father took was “a record, a testament, a bulwark against forgetting, against nothingness, against death” (p. 71). Later, she looks just once at the last photo her father took before he died. “[A]n empty London street . . . a wall tipped sideways from the vertical and running into the distance; a vanishing point of sallow, stormy sky.” It is a photo that she can “never stop seeing” (p. 106). Does Macdonald’s memory of this photo serve as a bulwark against forgetting her father? Or against her father’s death?

6. Macdonald cuts between her attempts to train Mabel with T. H. White’s attempts to train his goshawk. How much kinship does she see in their respective journeys? What are the similarities in their training routines? What are their differences?


Helen Macdonald with her green-cheeked conure, Birdoole CREDIT: ANDREW CROWLEY

And so Chapter Seven begins:

Invisibility

Part. Prrt. Prrt. One interrogatory note over and over again. like a telephone call from a bird deep in leaves. That's what pulled me from sleep. The noise came from a chaffinch in the lime tree outside my window, and I lay watching the day grow bright listening to the sound move about in the tree behind the glass. It was a rain call, a beautiful name for a noise like an unanswered question. No one knows why chaffinches make it, but the name comes from an old tradition that it portends bad weather.



Chaffinch

Chaffinches are cheerful garden visitors that have been known to live for a remarkable 14 years. Males are recognisable for their pink cheeks and chest and blue-grey nape and crown; both sexes have distinctive white flashes on their wings. During winter European chaffinches migrate to Britain.

Curiously, it's typically the females that migrate as the males prefer to remain in northern Europe. These remaining lone males give rise to their Latin name "coelebs" meaning bachelor. Chaffinches are one of the most common birds in Britain, with almost six million breeding pairs. Their distinctive, jangling songs vary from bird to bird, and there are even regional dialects in different parts of the UK.


Common Lime Tree

Interesting Facts:

Common lime is a deciduous broadleaf tree, native to the UK and parts of Europe.

Common name: common lime

Scientific name: Tilia x europaea

Family: Malvaceae

UK provenance: native

Interesting fact: During the war - lime blossom was used to make a soothing tea.

Sources: BBC Nature Wildlife, The Woodland Trust in the UK

All, we can begin posting about Chapters 7 through 12 now. You may respond to any of the discussion questions that I have posted or you can bring up some interesting ideas of your own about the chapters and the book. If you do quote from the book, please note the chapter and page number - it always helps our readers.

You may discuss anything from the beginning of the book through the end of Chapter 12 without spoiler html. However, always try to assist your fellow members by indicating what chapter and if you can tell us - what page you are referring to. It always helps.

If you discuss books aside from the book we are reading - please provide the full citation.

If you have not introduced yourself and you are new to the conversation, please introduce yourself and tell us where you are from globally - city and state if USA, city and country if you are global - we love to know where everybody is from who is reading with us.

So we begin week two of the reading and discussion. Welcome all.

All, just jump right in and if you have not introduced yourself - please do and try to respond to some of the discussion questions or post something that you were interested in within any of the chapters 1 - 12 so far.

There are quite a few books researched and cited by the author Helen MacDonald. I have added all of the books cited from chapters 1 - 12 in the glossary.

Here is the link:

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/...