WoTaLong (Wheel of Time Readalong) discussion

Remember these are spoilery discussions - so stay away unless you've finished this section! Also, please keep spoilers to the things we know in this section of the book.

What are your thoughts on this section of The Dragon Reborn?

Need a reminder? Here are the chapter summaries.

My favorite chapter: Probably Chapter 6 because that's when I realized that Rand had that kind of power over people in his general vicinty.

Happy reading!

I love the part in the early chapters where the party chasing Rand enters the town on the marriage spree and its strongly indicated Rands passing through caused a ripple in the pattern changing every bodies fate/thread.

I cracked up so much at "If you see the most beautiful woman you've ever seen, run!" "Why would I run from a beautiful woman?"

Reading the chapter summaries. This part in Perrin's dream is interesting " Three threads are woven together, if one is cut all fall."

All humanity really, not just Matt, Rand and Perrin.

This kind of goes to the bad guy motivation. Kill one of the three, get out of prison then rule the universe.

Bernal1221 wrote: "Reading the chapter summaries. This part in Perrin's dream is interesting " Three threads are woven together, if one is cut all fall."

All humanity really, not just Matt, Rand and Perrin."

Scott wrote: "I love the part in the early chapters where the party chasing Rand enters the town on the marriage spree and its strongly indicated Rands passing through caused a ripple in the pattern changing eve..."

All 3 are Ta'veren with Rand being the most powerful of the 3. Ta'veren pulling the pattern of the weave of fate to there needs and what needs to be done. If one tries to go of course the pattern will set them back on track by an unseen omnipotent way possible. If that makes any sense to you all. lol I may have used the omnipotent word wrong I couldn't find the right word to use for that sentence.

"The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills"

The Pattern creates an interesting blend of opposite concepts like free will vs predestination/determinism.

It seems like people keep thinking only Rand is important, but I liked that the book keeps emphasizing all three are important, as everyone is pointing out.

I also was surprised by Noam, the man who was lost to the Wolf part of himself. I hadn't really understood Perrin's desire to resist the wolf inside until that point - I thought the wolves were there to help him, and he should accept and appreciate them. I hadn't realized he could completely lose himself to it. How incredibly scary for him! The idea of avoiding sleep, though... that can't work out well.

In my opinion, everyone that left that night from Two Rivers were all Ta'veren. Rand, Perrin, Matt, Egwene, and Nynaeve. Egwene and Nynaeve always seemed to get what they needed and seemed to bend the pattern to they're will as well. They both were always in trouble and seemed to get out of it in some way. Well, when Matt wasn't around that is. Matt seemed to saved their asses all the time lol.

All 5 from the two rivers seem to have a special ability. Also it makes the series much longer as we have 5 main characters to follow. Also different books feature some more than others. The third really doesn’t have much of Rand and has bigger section on the others.

That's true, J.J. and Scott! I hadn't really thought about it, but Nynaeve and Egwene are also incredibly important and act like Ta'veren.

I never thought of the two females as travaren but it pretty clear they have specific powers related to the one power.

It’s also interesting looking at the travel pairings. As they change throughout the series

I also hadn't thought of the two female MCs as ta'veren, but they totally could be. And are just outshined by the stronger ta'veren of the 3 boys. I don't know if Mat always had a special ability or not - i feel like his Luck only starts becoming apparent after his tango with the knife from Shadar Logoth. I always attributed his luck to that, but he definitely could have had that all along too, it just got stronger. Still, the old blood runs strong in these kids from the two rivers!

Matt's luck is hard to explain. Maybe he was always lucky but his luck increases through the series just as the other Two Rivers character's powers increase.

The reason we know that Egwene and Nyneave are Ta'Veren is because in EOTW Min sees sparks around them just as she does Matt, Perrin, and Rand.

Keep in mind that the Shadow and the Light are Yin and Yang. The light cannot truly extinguish the dark and neither can the dark one really destroy the light, they are just locked in an eternal struggle. The wheel that turns history is powered by the light, and it's power will bend events to block the dark one. Ta'Veren are those people the light uses to shape events back towards equilibrium. It's a very interesting concept that I didn't fully grasp my first read through.

I think one of the themes of the series is yin and yang between the sexes. Both conflict and cooperation. It’s pretty clear the wheel is using the two females along with the three males from the two rivers. Perhaps it’s and oversight on Robert Jordan not to list egwene and nynaeve as taveren. Perhaps he didn’t intend to but their characters just grew as the series unfolded.

I think Egwene and Nyneave are simply not as strongly Ta'Veren as the three boys. What that means is that their actions and successes are more theirs than Matt, Perrin, or Rand. I think that is by design. Whereas Rand is fated to do awesome things... Nyneave does them by sheer willpower, and I think that was the original point. Artur Hawkwing has people do and say things uncharacteristically around him... as we read we should look for signs of this with the women. It would show that they are Ta'Veren.

I don’t think Perrin or mat have ppl around them do crazy stuff like rand does.

Scott wrote: "I don’t think Perrin or mat have ppl around them do crazy stuff like rand does."

It's not as obvious and extreme, but I believe it does happen. I was just reading the scene where Egwene finishes becoming accepted and Alanna from the Green Ajah demands to be punished. Several characters state she is acting crazy. This is likely proof of Egwene's pull as a Ta'Veren. It might be worthwhile to go back and review that scene for a moment. You will note that Egwene says she can see in her face that Alanna doesn't really want to be punished, yet she is asking for it. Doing things out of character are clear signs of Ta'Veren at work in my opinion.