Reading the Chunksters discussion

Chapter 8 - The Party Line - This chapter discusses the attempts to convert all soviets to Communism, and of course violence was a readily available means of doing so. There is another digression about Bolshevik literature, including the get-togethers by the author of the Iron Flood to read the manuscript. The consequences of remaining in the minority were dire, and exile was a frequent punishment for non-conformity. Even the stalwart holdout Tania Miagkova ultimately recanted her opposition upon the entreaty of her husband. In certain ways the Communist lifestyle made life easier, with regulated food, fitness, and activities, but the price was steep.

I don't think you should view the explorations of Soviet literature as digressions - the further you get into the book, the more they seem central to Slezkine's vision. The Party Line section foreshadows the much more brutal events of 1936-1937 which are covered later in the book.

Part III and 300+ pages in, we finally reach the House!

This discussion has gone very quiet!

My library copy got recalled at the start of the week so while I can join in general discussion I no longer have specifics to comment on - there were a lot of post-it notes to be removed before handing the book back!

Roman Clodia wrote: "My library copy got recalled at the start of the week so while I can join in general discussion I no longer have specifics to comment on - there were a lot of post-it notes to be removed before han..."'

ack! Maybe you can re-request it since we will continue on for awhile? At least you have the post-its!

Hugh wrote: "This discussion has gone very quiet!"

it shall revive! Yes where is everyone?

Chapter 9: "The fact that socialism was inevitable meant that it needed to be built. The USSR had no choice but to become 'a gigantic construction site'"

Do you agree?

Chapter 9: Continuing along on the themes of the last section regarding intentional destruction of the family .... "Today's children were tomorrow's 'new men and women." Around age twelve... "children will no longer be 'the property' of their parents: they will be 'the property' of the state.... which will take upon itself the solution of all problems in child rearing."

"Emancipation- primarily of women, but also of children and eventually all - meant freedom from the family."

Chapter 9: What about these little gems:

"Whatever is not necessary must be discarded."

"If it is needed, it exists, if it is not needed, it will be destroyed."

"The Revolution's last and decisive battle was to be against "velvet-covered albums resting on small tables covered in lace doilies."

Chapter 9 - The Palace of the Soviets - wow, what if!




great youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cXDr...

Chapter 10 - Oh my goodness the husband and wife swapping! No wonder some of these people were determined to be mentally unstable! Did you find the pictures of the individuals referenced in this chapter to be helpful?

by the way, what would 'traumatic nevrosis' equate to today?

Chapter 10 - what did you think of the theater productions and the censorship process?

Chapter 11 - The construction process was interesting, as was the rationale behind the conscription of prison labor for that purpose. Nikita Kruschev was the man in charge of all Moscow construction -

from wiki: Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev[a] (15 April 1894 – 11 September 1971) was a Soviet statesman who led the Soviet Union during part of the Cold War as the First Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from 1953 to 1964, and as Chairman of the Council of Ministers, or Premier, from 1958 to 1964. Khrushchev was responsible for the de-Stalinization of the Soviet Union, for backing the progress of the early Soviet space program, and for several relatively liberal reforms in areas of domestic policy. Khrushchev's party colleagues removed him from power in 1964, replacing him with Leonid Brezhnev as First Secretary and Alexei Kosygin as Premier.

Khrushchev was born in 1894 in the village of Kalinovka, which is close to the present-day border between Russia and Ukraine. He was employed as a metal worker during his youth, and he was a political commissar during the Russian Civil War. With the help of Lazar Kaganovich, he worked his way up the Soviet hierarchy. He supported Joseph Stalin's purges, and approved thousands of arrests. In 1938, Stalin sent him to govern Ukraine, and he continued the purges there. During what was known in the Soviet Union as the Great Patriotic War (Eastern Front of World War II), Khrushchev was again a commissar, serving as an intermediary between Stalin and his generals. Khrushchev was present at the bloody defense of Stalingrad, a fact he took great pride in throughout his life. After the war, he returned to Ukraine before being recalled to Moscow as one of Stalin's close advisers.

Stalin's death in 1953 triggered a power struggle, from which Khrushchev ultimately emerged victorious. On 25 February 1956, at the 20th Party Congress, he delivered the "Secret Speech", which denounced Stalin's purges and ushered in a less repressive era in the Soviet Union. His domestic policies, aimed at bettering the lives of ordinary citizens, were often ineffective, especially in agriculture. Hoping eventually to rely on missiles for national defense, Khrushchev ordered major cuts in conventional forces. Despite the cuts, Khrushchev's rule saw the most tense years of the Cold War, culminating in the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Khruschev's popularity was eroded by flaws in his policies. This emboldened his potential opponents, who quietly rose in strength and deposed the Premier in October 1964. However, he did not suffer the deadly fate of previous Soviet power struggles, and was pensioned off with an apartment in Moscow and a dacha in the countryside. His lengthy memoirs were smuggled to the West and published in part in 1970. Khrushchev died in 1971 of heart disease.

Chapter 11 - The description of the ongoing preservation of Lenin's body was so disturbing - removing patches of mold, inserting paraffin - yuck!

Dianne wrote: "Chapter 11 - The description of the ongoing preservation of Lenin's body was so disturbing - removing patches of mold, inserting paraffin - yuck!"
Unforgiveable I know, but I found the gory detail of this chapter rather reminiscent of Evelyn Waugh's The Loved One!

Dianne wrote: "Chapter 9: "The fact that socialism was inevitable meant that it needed to be built. The USSR had no choice but to become 'a gigantic construction site'"

Do you agree?"

Of course not.

The difference between theory and reality is much, much greater in reality than in theory.

Hugh wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Chapter 11 - The description of the ongoing preservation of Lenin's body was so disturbing - removing patches of mold, inserting paraffin - yuck!"
Unforgiveable I know, but I found ..."

ah good point Hugh - I hadn't thought of that!

Dan wrote: "Dianne wrote: "Chapter 9: "The fact that socialism was inevitable meant that it needed to be built. The USSR had no choice but to become 'a gigantic construction site'"

Do you agree?"

Of course ..."


but I think there was a very connected effort here to MAKE theory into reality. The palace was a good case in point. It didn't happen, but there was every effort to make that real, absurd as it was.

I'm getting into chapter 9 and am still reeling with the passage on separate rooms for husband and wife. The impermanence of their marriage seems ... I don't know, I'm still reeling!! They can 'divorce' so casually just by closing the doors and then invite other folks into their pad from anywhere in the apartment. Talk about a Soviet version of Tinder O.o Pardon my bawdy joke that's wildly inappropriate. But that's the most modern way I can equate it. What would these doors do to the healthy minds of folks and how unstable or disposable lives with their loved ones will become?

In theory, sure having everyone's needs taken care of is always worthy of something to strive for. But these folks are looking after their own interests quite well and are not at risk of being called altruists with their own commissioned movie theatres. One of the fellows called it when he said folks will be late to work if they have to wait in line for breakfast. And a whole town can't function with only 1 laundry machine.

The very concerted effort to turn theory into reality cost millions of lives. I don't care how hard you try, Men (and women) will be men (and women).
The absurdity is the consequence of these efforts, which unleashed the worst in man, pretty much the world's history.

Dan wrote: "The very concerted effort to turn theory into reality cost millions of lives. I don't care how hard you try, Men (and women) will be men (and women).
The absurdity is the consequence of these effo..."
The full horror of the consequences become clearer later in the book - Slezkine is no sentimental romantic...

I agree, that folks will always be folks. Whenever 1 person or a teeny group of folks are given too much power, they become evil. History has shown this time and time again.

The Indigenous cultures in Canada (and perhaps elsewhere) had a traditional system of government that can be considered communism or communalism. The key different is there was no form of currency among each other, everyone had a role to play that contributes in a meaningful way to society, the children were the teachers and the elders were the guides. Women were revered as the creators of life and men were the fire keepers, protectors and destroyers. Also, the size of each tribe was far, far smaller than an entire country so I guess the tribe functioned more like a family rather than a system of government. Of course, leisure time was much shorter back then because food & shelter needs took far longer to prepare. Most of all, there were no stores, credit cards or TVs to distract. Folks chatted with each other throughout the day.

1 person or a teeny group of folks are rarely GIVEN too much power. They TAKE too much power.

They do take power, no question. But to achieve that end goal, folks around them must contribute to it by giving them. Every dictator had folks around to help with the housekeeping duties. If they stuck to their guns, followed the ethics that are part of their profession & refused to help the budding dictator surely it would have hindered their take over?

Hugh wrote: "Dan wrote: "The very concerted effort to turn theory into reality cost millions of lives. I don't care how hard you try, Men (and women) will be men (and women).
The absurdity is the consequence o..."

I love your comments about what is to come Hugh - looking forward to it!