Navigating Indieworld Discussing All Things Indie discussion

I know there have been a number of discussions over time regarding the pros and cons of using CreateSpace. For my part, I've been happy with the services they provide and especially like the expedited printing of proofs that often result in their getting to me within days of my submitting a manuscript.

Given signs Amazon may be moving the paperback side of the house to KDP, and because I do like CreateSpace, I've taken steps (I hope) to lock in my next several paperback books with the latter by opening New Book files on these books and taking out free CS ISBNs for these books on the CS Website. In all, I have four books in this "category" and hope, at the least, it will grandfather me into CS should Amazon make any global changes to its publishing operations.

We are turning all our Createspace books into DYI- Many of the earlier ones have to be unlocked by CS to make changes. I am changing them to DYI- because I think after April 1 they won't offer that service anymore.

I did the same thing, opened new files for the remaining books in my current series, in hopes of keeping the continuity in the series. I haven't tried a paperback with KDP, but hope that if the change happens, the process and product are similar to what is currently available with CreateSpace. I'm not good with change!!

Carole wrote: "We are turning all our Createspace books into DYI- Many of the earlier ones have to be unlocked by CS to make changes. I am changing them to DYI- because I think after April 1 they won't offer that..."

What is DYI? Also, I don't understand by having to "unlock" CS.

Sorry for my ignorance.

T

Do it yourself. lol. If you use their services they lock it up- Their editing and such.

Carole wrote: "Do it yourself. lol. If you use their services they lock it up- Their editing and such."

That's what I thought LOL I was beginning to think someone had a new publishing service out there.

I have my own editors, do my own formatting, covers, etc., etc. I've never had a problem with CreateSpace (save that one time when I was submitting one of my children's books that had a RED component in the BLUE cover I was using (I submitted the cover in RGB, and their printing process kept turning out all kinds of different shades of purple from print job to print job)).

As far as eBooks are concerned, I only publish in Kindle these days. Simply too much of a kabuki dance to fiddle and fool around with other distributors, given my experience with meager sales a few years ago.

I moved the first of my books to KDP because I am writing an article about the changes for Indie Author's Monthly magazine. This book has been published for over a year through CS and IngramSpark. I have both the paperback and hardback version with Ingram.

The initial process was simple. If the book is on CS, KDP grabs the interior file and cover file. No new upload is required. They do, however, put the book through another review. Mine got rejected. I had added an excerpt at the back of the book from the second book in the series. I started with page 1 for the excerpt. KDP rejected because of the break in the numbering system. This wasn't an issue with CS or with Ingram.

I have been trading emails for the last two weeks trying to get this resolved. You can't get a person on the phone, which is a negative. Current status is that I have to redo the manuscript and change the numbers, then resubmit the manuscript. I was also advised that CS made a mistake not rejecting the book.

Margaret wrote: "I did the same thing, opened new files for the remaining books in my current series, in hopes of keeping the continuity in the series. I haven't tried a paperback with KDP, but hope that if the cha..."

I started with CS and then switched to KDP - I actually like KDP better since now everything is in one place and it's easier to get the book loaded after I already have the ebook set up. Would not want to go back. The only downside I found in the beginning was KDP didn't offer author copies at a discounted rate but now they do.

Carole - I agree with doing the formatting yourself. In the beginning, I got quotes from CS for formatting but decided that it wasn't worth the price because I wanted to be able to make changes in the future. I figured out the formatting and did it myself - now I own the files and don't have to worry about paying someone to make changes.

Yes, I also used Ben's company- His wife is affordable Chrissy from Indie Publishing and quick. I'd give her something in the morning and sometimes she got it back by the end of the day.

I bought all my own ISBN's too. That made a difference. I'm selling well on Draft to Digital. I sold about 10 copies of Bulwark on there this week. I was pretty happy with that. I used one of those book promotion things- Brit knows which one.

Why, if you have your book already published on CS, would you move it to KDP? In my case, the paperback and Kindle files are NOT identical. The Kindle editions have hotlinked footnotes and endnotes, something (of course!) the paperback editions do not. This makes a huge difference in the formatting. In any event, why fix something that isn't broken by moving a CS paperback to KDP?

What am I missing?

At times I found dealing with CS a struggle. I tried KDP on one book and never went back. I like having one dashboard for everything. Also, I found I could sell my paperbacks at a price point that was more competetive. And last time I ordered author copies the shipping was much less than CS.

I create my books in word. I first create the ebook file and then drop it into a template I made myself for the print file. I upload directly so moving to KDP was easy.

There is also rumor that Amazon is moving to shut down createspace and make everyone move to KDP. Just rumor at this point, but it makes sense. Why would you have two different platforms that do the same thing? I haven't moved to KDP, but am preparing a backup plan incase they do end createspace.

When I first got the message that KDP was available for paperbacks, I felt like I was being encouraged to move. Correct me if I'm wrong but the main downside to moving is that CS has broader distribution options.

I spoke to someone at CS and they said they will be closed down eventually.

Theodore wrote: "Why, if you have your book already published on CS, would you move it to KDP? In my case, the paperback and Kindle files are NOT identical. The Kindle editions have hotlinked footnotes and endnotes..."

Rumor mill is that CS will be closing down and books will be shifted to KDP. Layoffs in the CS division have started in Washington and North Carolina. CS discontinued the paid services they offered for cover design, editing and formatting. KDP has new procedures to move a print book from CS to KDP. One of the reasons touted is to consolidate all books under one account.

When the print book title is loaded to KDP, there is a yes/no, for CS. If the author clicks that the book is on CS, KDP transfers the files, cover and manuscript, that were uploaded to CS, and moves them to the KDP system. It is not necessary to reload files. The book is automatically removed from the CS dashboard. When one is sold, the sale will be recorded on the KDP account. The process is transparent to the sale of the book. It is still online and can be purchased. It is still printed at the same printing facility.

My last shipment of CS books came in an Amazon box (last week).

Erica wrote: "My last shipment of CS books came in an Amazon box (last week)."

Interesting. I received a box of proofs yesterday, and they came from CS.

Anita wrote: "Theodore wrote: "Why, if you have your book already published on CS, would you move it to KDP? In my case, the paperback and Kindle files are NOT identical. The Kindle editions have hotlinked footn..."

So, Anita, do I have this right? It was a very simple thing to transfer the book from CS to KDP? One just begins the process to load a book at KDP, but you don't actually have to upload it because it transfers? And does the book retain all reviews already attached, as it is a seamless transfer in the background with nothing changing on the Amazon site? I had read somewhere that this is the case, but did not know if the person describing it was correct or not.

Hmmm...mine came from Columbia SC

if your book is still on CS, it will show as CS. CS is not automatically transferring to KDP. The author has to initiate the transfer. There shouldn't be an issue with reviews because the reviews are posted against all versions, which includes the eBook on KDP.

Anita wrote: "if your book is still on CS, it will show as CS. CS is not automatically transferring to KDP. The author has to initiate the transfer. There shouldn't be an issue with reviews because the reviews a..."

Thanks!

So is it only a matter of time until Amazon closes Createspace entirely? With KDP Print up and running I can't see why they would keep both available.

The service at Createspace has gotten terrible. They got rid of everybody and all the services and are trying to move authors to the new platform. I think u couldn’t buy copies at cost from there but I think I heard they changed that. Not sure

Carole wrote: "The service at Createspace has gotten terrible. They got rid of everybody and all the services and are trying to move authors to the new platform. I think u couldn’t buy copies at cost from there b..."

It doesn't sound like it makes much sense to place a new book there. Does anyone know what happens to the books already there if Amazon shutters Createspace?

I have to admit...I'm puzzled by the problems people say they are having with CS. I currently have four books "in process" on CS. I go in and out every week or so, updating my drafts because the books are scheduled to come "live" in April, June, July, and August. The turnaround for approval and interiors has never taken more than 24 hours.

I recently had 17 copies of a recently released book printed for my personal use. One of the copies was printed backwards. I called CS early in the morning EDST (when I knew I would get an agent in South Africa) and explained the problem to him. The agent asked for all the pertinent information, but did NOT ask for a photo, which I was prepared to provide. He promised to have the book reprinted, which they did. That copy was delivered within two days by FedX Air Express.

So, again, I'm puzzled by the recent comments re CS service. It's basically what I've experienced for the last four to five years.

BTW, KDP also is great...turnaround on approval of interiors has, in many cases, taken only a few hours.

Theodore wrote: "I have to admit...I'm puzzled by the problems people say they are having with CS. I currently have four books "in process" on CS. I go in and out every week or so, updating my drafts because the bo..."

Is the quality of KDP comparable to Createspace?

I can’t compare because I’ve only used KDP. I saw nothing wrong with the paperbacks I bought of mine.

Eldon wrote: "Theodore wrote: "I have to admit...I'm puzzled by the problems people say they are having with CS. I currently have four books "in process" on CS. I go in and out every week or so, updating my draf..."

I have only used CS for the last four to five years. And the quality has always been great. The only problem I had was with the printing of the covers of one of my children's books, which was a dark blue. The problem was mine...I submitted an RGB jpg that had a red component, but the subtractive printing process they use created all kinds of shades of blue, ranging from light purple to blue to dark purple. I finally created an GB jpg cover (no R component) and that solved the problem. But CS was very patient during the process, even reprinting the books on one occasion at their expense to determine whether the problem might be theirs.

Carole wrote: "The service at Createspace has gotten terrible. They got rid of everybody and all the services and are trying to move authors to the new platform. I think u couldn’t buy copies at cost from there b..."

Through the options for the paperback on kdp, you can order proof or author copies. The only difference in the two that I could see is a proof copy has 'proof' printed across the cover.

C.C. wrote: "Carole wrote: "The service at Createspace has gotten terrible. They got rid of everybody and all the services and are trying to move authors to the new platform. I think u couldn’t buy copies at co..."

KDP writes proof across the cover?

If you purchase the proof copy - I think it says something like not for resale. Didn't realize this until after I ordered the 'proof copy' option and got the book in the mail. After the book was published, I chose the 'author copy' option and this looks like the normal book.

C.C. wrote: "If you purchase the proof copy - I think it says something like not for resale. Didn't realize this until after I ordered the 'proof copy' option and got the book in the mail. After the book was pu..."

Was the process easy to use?

Life keeps sucking times two. I've never a problem with Createspace. And now it seems that any future books I want to publish I won't be able to on Createspace since it seems it won't be long before the do a final shutdown. I've never used KDP print option. I'm not sure how I'd fair with that. But I have other options I've been looking into. But what will happen to our books on Createspace. Will we have to manually move them? Or will that be done by Amazon electronically?

Eldon wrote: "C.C. wrote: "If you purchase the proof copy - I think it says something like not for resale. Didn't realize this until after I ordered the 'proof copy' option and got the book in the mail. After th..."

On the KDP bookshelf page, choose the ... next to paperback options for the book. From the drop down menu, choose 'request printed proofs' or 'request author copies'. From there, you input number of copies and choose marketplace. When you submit this, Amazon places an order in your cart on Amazon.com (if that's your marketplace). From there, you place an order like you do for anything else on Amazon. I think you pay taxes, but if I remember correctly, shipping was less than what CS charged when I ordered copies from them.

Alex wrote: "Angel wrote: "Life keeps sucking times two. I've never a problem with Createspace. And now it seems that any future books I want to publish I won't be able to on Createspace since it seems it won't..."

Hopefully they will let us know.

Alex wrote: "The alternatives to Createspace/KDP involves spending a bundle on ISBNs and setup fees."

There are other ways. We might just have to invent them ourselves.

Alex wrote: "If we come up with something really good we could challenge Amazon, that would be great."

Yes. We indie authors could create our own publishing company.

If Createspace ceases to exist- do our ISBN's vanish? I suppose they will be transferred to Amazon.

When you buy a book on KDP is there a wholesale price?

Why would CS deliberately destroy books already in their library that are generating revenue? It makes no sense. Either they will migrate our book files to KDP or grandfather them in a CS space that will be closed to newcomers. Let's not get upset over things into which we have very little visibility at this time.

Again, from my end, I have seen ZERO change in the way I interface with CS and in the way CS agents have been working with me. And my most recent interaction with them was last week regarding the misprinting of a book that they reprinted and air shipped to me at no cost.

I think you make sense, Ted. I'm sure that's what they'll do.

When I spoke to them about a year and a half ago, they said they were not going to close it for a long time.

I just created a new book on CS and so far everything is the same. They gave me a chance to buy a proof at the usual price but I opted for the PDF for speed. I just up loaded a new file and if this one works out I will be ordering copies next week. So I will see if they let me. Recently I saw a listing for author's copies on a previous book when I was looking for something else. But next week I will see.

I had a problem with my recent paperback. I called them they sat on the phone with me for 30 mins until I had the problem figured out. Same RGB thing as Theo, then he offered to call me back. I had no reason to believe he would. He did. On time and as he waited as i reuploaded the file I asked about the shut down. He told me they weren’t shutting down anytime soon but their services department had stopped generating revenue and it made no sense to keep them. He said they were focusing more on a Do It Yourself platform but that they weren’t going anywhere. It could have been lip service but I believed him. Anyway they sent me my new proof 2 days later for free and it was perfect. For now I’m staying until I absolutely have to leave.

I didn’t have a problem with KDP and have used it twice. The last time was almost a year ago. I found it straight forward. When I used it I had to buy my books at full retail price and then get the royalty later on. At the time I did think if they’ve got any sense they’d change that. Seems like they have.

More problems converting from CS to KDP:

https://www.indiesunlimited.com/2018/...

Amazon has hurt itself and its authors; revenues certainly must have taken a hit on the book side and will continue to do so as long as authors don’t fix the problems Amazon created with this move from CS to KDP. Remarkable for a firm like Amazon to not have thought this through better.

I want to thank you, Ted. I didn't know what happened to our books. We went from triple digits in paperbacks every month to a minimal amount when we changed over to KDP.

Brit has been busy updating the book information on KDP and sales have increased overnight.

Carole wrote: "I want to thank you, Ted. I didn't know what happened to our books. We went from triple digits in paperbacks every month to a minimal amount when we changed over to KDP.

Brit has been busy updatin..."

Super!

None of mine has been converted to KDP at this point. Once they start moving them over, I'll have to take stock and see where the problems lie. It should be interesting.

Good that Brit got things back on track. If she has a minute, perhaps she could summarize here the major errors she found. It would, I'm sure, be a good roadmap for the rest of us.

Thanks.

Carole wrote: "I want to thank you, Ted. I didn't know what happened to our books. We went from triple digits in paperbacks every month to a minimal amount when we changed over to KDP.

Brit has been busy updatin..."

That's really good to hear, Carole.

I'm traveling today- but I'll leave a message for her- Hopefully, she will get to it.

If not- tomorrow I'll be back in the office and I'll get her too do it.

Hi guys,

It's Brittney, here! Just writing from Carole's GoodReads because we're already logged in on here.

So what I've been finding for errors when we transferred our information from CreateSpace to KDP is:
Some "key words" were missing as well as the "select two categories".

Now, it's something you have to really look out for, as I found that not all of the words and categories were missing... just some. So instead of having the 6 key words set up, you'll only have had 4 transferred... or instead of having two categories set up, it may have only transferred one.

That's for the most part what I have discovered. I guess it must be a glitch when things transfer... nothing's perfect.

Let me know if you need help or have any more questions. And if you discover any other issues and/or solutions, feel free to share them!

Xoxo
Brittney

It sounds like everyone should have a Brit! Better not let us know where she hides out, Carole.