J.R.R. Tolkien discussion
This topic is about
The Fall of Gondolin
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The Fall of Gondolin
Yup! Already pre ordered!
Mod
My local bookshop automatically orders me any new Tolkiens 😊
What!? Please somebody tell me about this 😱
Cool. Hope they make an audiobook.
I see Christopher Tolkien is keeping Alan Lee very busy. Too bad they don't get John Howe to do the illustrations. I prefer his artwork.
Can't wait to have it!!and finally the third "big" story of the Silmarillion will be as a separate book!
I think it is cruel telling us about the book now and then making us wait 5 months for it. :( ;)
When this gets released in my home country, the Philippines, it will be very, very expensive. Well, almost every book is expensive in the Philippines. But it is a sad reality that I can't purchase that much Tolkien books because they cost a lot of Philippine pesos. I hope I will get to buy this after it gets released. I need to read more Tolkien.
Wow, the third one's coming huh? This is amazing.
Really hoping this is more like The Children of Hurin than it is like the Tinuviel/Beren book. The Fall is one of my favorite stories from The Silmarillion.
Donald wrote: "Really hoping this is more like The Children of Hurin than it is like the Tinuviel/Beren book. The Fall is one of my favorite stories from The Silmarillion."Agreed!
Wow. That's amazing news. I recently re-read my first edition of the Unfinished Tales and Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin. It felt so sad that the same level of detail was not available for the rest of his story. Well shows what I know. Very excited to read this!
I personally really enjoyed Beren and Luthien, but I agree I would prefer another artist gets a crack at the illustrations.
Mod
Like Beren and Lúthien, The Fall of Gondolin will collect together for the first time in a single volume, Tolkien's developing stories on the subject which have already been published elsewere.
I'm not intending to be a wet blanket, just ensuring that readers know what to expect :-)
Extremely excited about this! And loving that Alan Lee is the illustrator!
OMG!! Am Excited!!!! I've just pre-ordered.
I'm so excited! I actually haven't read my copy of Beren and Luthien. I've been saving it, but I'm rereading the Silmarillion right now! I loved how The Children of Hurin worked, but I'm fine if The Fall of Gondolin falls more in line with Beren and Luthien. It needs its own volume.
Anne Marie wrote: "Wow, Christopher just keeps knocking them out - what a faithful son! God bless him and the Professor! Love the cover.Namarie, God bless, Anne Marie :)"
A dying breed.
This does look very exciting, but a thought struck me: if you are someone who criticized Peter Jackson for making three Hobbit movies because you saw it as a money grab, how can you not also see this as a money grab? I mean, nothing I've read has said these are new stories or anything different than we've seen already in other books.I am okay with people writing books and making movies for money. I am pretty sure Tolkien wrote the Hobbit at least partly to make money (the same applies to Shakespeare, Dickens and others...people want to make money). And I believe the Hobbit movies had other flaws and deserve to be criticized. I am merely asking, as fans, are we consistent?
I'd say, maybe Tolkien and the publisher are just publishing this out of the goodness of their heart (though...we still have to pay hardcover price, so making money is part of the motivation). But that's okay. May we judge books and movies not just on the financial motivation of the publishers but on the quality of the work.
@David: If you think it (whatever it is) is a money grabbing ploy, don't spend your money on it. Personally I love Middle-Earth stuff and I'm willing to spend my money on Tolkien's writing scraps and Alan Lee's illustrations. It would be nice if there was new stuff, but if not I'm willing to pay to have all the Gondolin text in one book. If you don't want to pay hardcover prices for it, borrow from the library or wait for the paperback.
David wrote: "This does look very exciting, but a thought struck me: if you are someone who criticized Peter Jackson for making three Hobbit movies because you saw it as a money grab, how can you not also see th..."While I am sure money is a factor (isn't it always), as Tolkien's son, and heir to his literary body of work, I cannot help but assume Christopher's motives are different from those that drove PJ to make those monstrosities. Looking at the end results is also important. While I was already familiar with the Beren and Luthien story, I absolutely loved the latest compilation, made all the more beautiful by the illustrations and commentary that was included. I got a whole new appreciation of the story by seeing the different versions side-by-side, and I am hoping for the same experience with The Fall of Gondolin.
By comparison, the Hobbit movies were almost completely unrecognizable from the source text, and padded with elements that the filmmakers wanted (more action! more women! this needs a love story!) which had nothing to do with what the story was essentially about. If the Hobbit trilogy had been more true to the story (I think it is fare to say that the LOTR movies aren't 100% faithful, but seemed to have been made with good intentions, so people are generally more accepting of them), I would have relished the chance to experience it across more films. People hate them not because there are too many of them, but because they are so radically different from what Tolkien wrote, both in spirit and content.
What Christopher adds of his own perspective on the material is not to take anything away from what Tolkien wrote, but to try to provide insight when the material cannot speak for itself alone (heck, if you read the HoME, you know what I mean).
I imagine it cannot have been easy for him to devote his entire life to another man's work and having to live in his father's shadow.
At the end of the day though, I think the world is grateful for that effort as we have so many works of art to appreciate that might never have otherwise have been published. In contrast, we can all live without seeing the Hobbits movies, and would probably be better for it.
I first read Tolkien when I was thirteen, some fifty-three years ago. It has held my imagination ever since, and almost every January re-read either the Hobbit, LoTR or both, the Silmarillion and all the rest if I have time. I'm very happy to see this new release as it will make an important story that much more accessible. I never felt any annoyance at Peter Jackson for making the movies at all. They were movies, not changed books. Movies move in different ways from books and must be adapted from literature to be screenable. In any case, the films got the stories out there even more and generated lots and lots of discussion. I hope this new release will do the same. Tolkien, remains in a very small group of writers of the last 100 years, who have changed the nature of our culture and opened up our spirits.
I can't wait! this is one of the best story arcs in the entire Silm, and Alan Lee's illustrations are incredible. I just hope he does justice to Glorfindel's hair.
Richard wrote: "I first read Tolkien when I was thirteen, some fifty-three years ago. It has held my imagination ever since, and almost every January re-read either the Hobbit, LoTR or both, the Silmarillion and a..."I do agree with you ! Movies move in another way than books, I am happy he made them even if they differe so much from the books. Why? because it made a lot of new Tolkien fans across the glob!
I don't see it as a money grab because it's simply breaking down the Silmarillion and making it accessible. The Hobbit movies however went off the tracks.Think of it this way, we have boxed sets of the Trilogy for sale, and individual books. You can buy one or all, separately or together. But they are still Tolkien (unlike PJ's Hobbit which is Warhammer cloaked in Tolkien)
Mod
Here's the link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09y...
Interestingly, the interview opens with a clip of Tolkien describing how he wrote the Ring Verse in the bath!
Michael wrote: "Alan Lee was talking yesterday on the Today show on BBC Radio 4 about The Fall of Gondolin. The program is available on the BBC website for the next 29 days and the interview starts a..."Thanks!
Joaquin wrote: "When this gets released in my home country, the Philippines, it will be very, very expensive. Well, almost every book is expensive in the Philippines. But it is a sad reality that I can't purchase ..."Why are books expensive in your country? Could you elaborate? I'm just interested...
Tara wrote: "I personally really enjoyed Beren and Luthien, but I agree I would prefer another artist gets a crack at the illustrations."Thanks for the info. I wasn't expecting much and now I expect even less. Do you think it's necessary to release sth like that?
@ Jacob: the currency exchange rate between the UK/USA and the Philippines is probably horrendous. There might also be additional import taxes and things like that, especially if Joaquin does an international order.
Elentarri wrote: "@ Jacob: the currency exchange rate between the UK/USA and the Philippines is probably horrendous. There might also be additional import taxes and things like that, especially if Joaquin does an in..."Yeah, I would assume the same, although without much true insight into the matter. However, I thought he had written about the prices that the books have once they are released in his country, without the necessity of buying them internationally.
Jacob wrote: "Elentarri wrote: "@ Jacob: the currency exchange rate between the UK/USA and the Philippines is probably horrendous. There might also be additional import taxes and things like that, especially if ..."I don't really order internationally. I get books from the bookstore. But looking for any specific book is hard. 'The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" are quite common in the mainstream bookstores but other books by J.R.R Tolkien are harder to find. And when you get to find them, you will discover that they are expensive. I have seen a few copies of "Beren and Luthien'' in different places but every copy I see costs around 800 Philippine pesos. Books like that don't cost beyond twenty dollars in the United States and other countries.
I do think these kinds of books have merit Jacob, although clearly they are not to everyone's tastes. There is something to be said for having the different drafts and versions of a particularly important story in one source, especially for someone who doesnt have the various other works that contain said story. I think all of us Tolkien fans would love a newly discovered unknown story, but we have to accept that will never happen and be happy with what is out there. On a side note I have been reading the History of Middle Earth along side a re-read of the published texts and it's been a really enjoyable journey. I am hoping for a similar experience with this new book.
Are there any potential writers to carry the torch within the Tolkien estate? Within Tolkien's descendants?
Mod
I hope not - I think the law of diminishing returns applies here. Things are usually (though not always) made precious by their scarcity.
Aaron wrote: "Are there any potential writers to carry the torch within the Tolkien estate? Within Tolkien's descendants?"One of Tolkien's sons or grandsons (can't remember which) writes historical thrillers or something like that. But I really hope no-one tries doing a sequal to any Middle Earth stuff. Just leave the work alone.
If you want more stories with Hobbits in them and a Middle Earth flavour, try some of Dennis L McKiernan's novels.
Honestly, only J.R.R Tolkien is supposed to be writing about Middle-earth. No other writer can match his skill in fantasy.
Joaquin wrote: "Honestly, only J.R.R Tolkien is supposed to be writing about Middle-earth. No other writer can match his skill in fantasy."I don't believe this. I don't think Tolkien is unique in writing when you look at his influences, but I think his knowledge, wisdom, experiences, and eccentricity is rare to be found all in one person now. At least one person with the time on their hands to explore it.
Elentarri wrote: "Aaron wrote: "Are there any potential writers to carry the torch within the Tolkien estate? Within Tolkien's descendants?"One of Tolkien's sons or grandsons (can't remember which) writes historic..."
His grandson Simon (son of Christopher) is an author, but nothing ME related. I am glad that Christopher chose only to be an editor of his father's work rather than trying to fill in the gaps.
Funny how a dead guy (with a bit of familial help) can publish more books, more often, post mortem, than some live authors. ;)
J.R.R. Tolkien
Books mentioned in this topic
Beren and Lúthien (other topics)Authors mentioned in this topic
Alan Lee (other topics)Alan Lee (other topics)
Alan Lee (other topics)
Alan Lee (other topics)
Here's some links to announcements of the publication:
https://www.harpercollins.co.uk/97800...
https://www.tolkiensociety.org/2018/0...
https://www.theguardian.com/books/201...