Christian Readers discussion

1 John 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And THIS is His commandment, that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
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God's definition: "Keeping His Commandment" = FAITH IN JESUS

In context of the whole Bible I'd have to say that love is the fulfilling of the law (Rom 13:10) in us (Rom 8:4). It is the expression of God's righteousness with His consistent characteristics of love shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Rom 5:5) - where by it is no longer bondage of the law to keep from doing wrong, but freedom in Christ desiring to do right.
No, we are not under the Law. But we can't just dismiss it. In fact we even more so embrace it, or should I say pertain to it by the indwelling Holy Spirit. We no longer have to work for our righteousness (as by the Law), instead we do righteous works (as by Christ). Christ is our Righteousness (1Cor 1:30), and we rest in Him (Heb 4:3), as He is our Sabbath (rest) in fulfilling the Law (Heb 4:10).

Yes, who are the "We"? And what exactly is referred to as "the commandments"?

Many people have abused these over the centuries.

1 John 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And THIS is His commandment, that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

We = John's audience
The commandments = Faith in Jesus

Personally I believe the emphasis is no longer so much on keeping or obeying, but on fulfilling the Law. Romans 13:10 says indeed that love is the fulfillment of the Law. So, every time we act in love we fulfill what God has written on our hearts. This does not mean that the Law is no longer there, we need to know what it says. We do not, however, follow the letter... because the Law is spiritual as the Apostle Paul says.

Sounds great. Every true Christian should be eager to do this.

But many churches don't teach God's love... or exactly who this Jesus is.

Yes, many churches make the cross of no effect (1 chapter of Corinthians I think) and preach sin without consequences. But reading in Romans today, I think that Rom 8:2 puts the law into perspective with "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus." It makes me reflect on Rev 1:5 & Rom 6:6 with the thought that the law of the Spirit isn't a regulation to follow but a law that frees us from that instead...as we utilize our liberty with the indwelling Holly Spirit. With that, I'm very open to any encouraging iron sharpening.

Rod wrote: "Sounds great. Every true Christian should be eager to do this.

But many churches don't teach God's love... or exactly who this Jesus is."

So true Rod as it is possible for the gospel message to be so overshadowed by eloquence, education, and a polished presentation that it is robbed of its power to affect the human heart. God’s power to save rests in the content of the message that penetrates the heart and convicts us of sin (Rom. 1:16-17; Heb. 4:12). It is a message that divides the proud from the humble. The latter perceive it as “foolishness,” while the former as the "power and wisdom of God” (1 Cor. 1:23-24). May those who hear seek not wisdom of words, but the wisdom of God that “faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God” (1 Cor. 2:5).

David wrote: "Yes, many churches make the cross of no effect (1 chapter of Corinthians I think) and preach sin without consequences. But reading in Romans today, I think that Rom 8:2 puts the law into perspectiv..."

My response: Making the cross of no effect is adding works (baptism specified in this case) as mandatory for salvation...

1 Corinthians 1:17 - "For Christ sent me not to baptize , but to preach the gospel : not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect ."

David wrote: "So true Rod as it is possible for the gospel message to be so overshadowed by eloquence, education, and a polished presentation that it is robbed of its power to affect the human heart..."

My response: I am curious, do you really believe that we human beings can minimize or reduce God's power unto salvation?

Romans 1:16 - "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ : for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."

Each individual has the power to minimize the power of salvation in our OWN heart. God has chosen NOT to overwhelm us with his power, but to woo us with his love.

If we did not have the power to reject God's Word, then we would not have free will. God did not create us to be robots who are programmed only to obey, but free actors who must choose to follow or not.

However, once we have accepted God's gift, through Jesus, than we can do nothing to separate ourselves from the love of God. Even then, if we do not cooperate with the Holy Spirit, we will not grow in him and we will not yield fruit. We'll still make it to Heaven but we will deny ourselves (and others) much joy in this life...

Joel wrote: "Each individual has the power to minimize the power of salvation in our OWN heart. God has chosen NOT to overwhelm us with his power, but to woo us with his love. If we did not have the power to r..."

My response: WOW! Yes, we have the power to reject God's Word... but a person's rejection of the Word of God... does NOT make it LESS God's Word or LESS powerful!

I think this is just a case of semantics. Of course no one can lessen the power of God's Word -- God has made it clear that His Word shall accomplish His purposes and not return to Him empty.

But God has chosen to make the reception of His Word voluntary. He is not forcing it upon anyone. Similarly, although God does not wish evil to exist and he has the power to stop it, He has chosen to allow his creatures to do as they please until His eternal plans are fulfilled.

11 Joel Bunk: Which church did you get that from that you can minimize the power of salvation? God is all about righteousness and love has nothing to do with it. During Noah's Flood how many people were saved? 8. They couldn't find 10 that were righteous in Sodom and God destroyed those two cities. The sacrifices in Leviticus was that love or righteousness. There is a matter of being chosen and drawn that the preachers never talk about. Look at mankind through the eyes of God, the wars, famines, penitentiarys, bars, nakedness on tv, fiction books and preachers shooting off for hours, without mentioning a Word out of the King James Bible of 1611, they write their own bibles, They never give it a thought that half the Bible never came from God, Or that some of the verses never came from God, St John 3:16 is one of those. "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." Genesis 6:6 You should stick with Harry Potter.

Just ignore Mickey. We all do.

Joel wrote: "I think this is just a case of semantics. Of course no one can lessen the power of God's Word -- God has made it clear that His Word shall accomplish His purposes and not return to Him empty. But ..."

My response: Thanks for the clarification... I believe we agree.

Well the thing is no one is righteous or good (Romans 3:10-12). Not even me. The only righteous one is God himself. If no one is righteous or good, we must be sinful. Indeed, every inch, every sinew, every part of our bodies is affected by sin. We're totally/radically depraved. And because of that we can't completely keep God's commandments completely. The only person on earth to be able to fully keep God's commandments was Jesus himself. Of course, this doesn't mean we shouldn't try obeying. We're called to obey God and to try obeying.

BTW this is reformed theological thinking here. If any of you have question, let me know

I'm perfect. St Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Jesus is perfect: you're a puts!

Rod wrote: "Jesus is perfect: you're a puts!"

I agree with Rod on this one!

My mistake: should say "PUTZ".

Glad you joined in Jonathan.

Jonathan S. wrote: "The word 'and,' Robert, indicates the inclusion of a separate thought, not an inclusion or expansion of previous ones already stated...."

My response: Thanks for your OPINION! I noticed you did NOT quote even ONE verse of Scripture.

For me, I will continue to AGREE with the BIBLE... and avoid private interpretations.